Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!

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**Amishprn86**

I see no reason to take Embraces of Caress, without a TM they are always better vs MEQ/GEQ/TEQ and with a TM they are only 1/2 a wound worst per Troupe squad vs MEQ/TEQ/GEQ and now they are always better vs T5+ no matter what.

So for 1pt you are only slightly worst with a TM vs light infantry but are always better if you dont have a TM and always better vs heavy infantry. IDK about you but for me that 15-20pts per army is highly worth it.

**Blackie**

A couple of questions about how some Harlequins units perform.

Do you like the Death Jester? He's quite cheap but looks useless on paper.

What about Star Bolas on the bikes? Zephyrglaves seem very popular but if you have multiple units of Troupes, Troupe Masters and maybe even a Solitaire another close combat oriented unit is not that appealing while the granades can be another decent anti tank option. They're also free. I'm not a fan of Voidweavers so 2x3 bikes with Bolas and Haywire Cannon look promising. Am I missing something?

**Creeping Dementia**

Blackie wrote:
A couple of questions about how some Harlequins units perform.

Do you like the Death Jester? He's quite cheap but looks useless on paper.

What about Star Bolas on the bikes? Zephyrglaves seem very popular but if you have multiple units of Troupes, Troupe Masters and maybe even a Solitaire another close combat oriented unit is not that appealing while the granades can be another decent anti tank option. They're also free. I'm not a fan of Voidweavers so 2x3 bikes with Bolas and Haywire Cannon look promising. Am I missing something?

I personally don't like the Death Jester, but some do and can do quite a bit of damage when combined with strategems and leadership shenanigans. I've never had much success with low rate-of-fire snipers but honestly it's mainly a personal preference thing on my part.

Main problem with Star Bolas are that they are a Grenade. So only one model can throw one per turn, and when they do that they can't shoot their Haywire. The majority of the time it's better to just shoot the Haywire. The Glaives also allow the Skyweavers to have a dual role, which is very nice considering the very limited unit options the clowns have. With the Glaives the Skyweavers have three roles, primarily anti-tank, and secondarily anti-infantry (due to Haywire rate-of-fire) and harrassment/tie up (similar to DE Reavers).

Similar to you I'm not sure about Voidweavers yet, I've thought about trying the Prismatic versions though.

**Blackie**

Creeping Dementia wrote:

Main problem with Star Bolas are that they are a Grenade. So only one model can throw one per turn, and when they do that they can't shoot their Haywire. The majority of the time it's better to just shoot the Haywire. The Glaives also allow the Skyweavers to have a dual role, which is very nice considering the very limited unit options the clowns have. With the Glaives the Skyweavers have three roles, primarily anti-tank, and secondarily anti-infantry (due to Haywire rate-of-fire) and harrassment/tie up (similar to DE Reavers).

I understand what you're saying and I see pros and cons in using bolas over glaves. They're granades and only one model can use them per turn but if you run min squads of two bikes this isn't a huge issue and bolas are way better than haywire against anything with a good save that isn't a vehicle.

If equipped with glaves the bikes gain more versatility but it will cost you 6 additional ppm, which is something. In the list I'd like to try there are 6 bikes and no way I'm going to find 36 points without cutting some upgrades that I absolutely want for the troupes. Maybe mixing the two weapons in a unit of two bikes can be an interesting solution? One with the granade, the other one with the melee weapon.

**Creeping Dementia**

Of course that can work if you really need to save 18 points. Not really how I would do it but that doesn't make it wrong.

For me, the Bolas don't add too much, going after non-vehicle high armor targets aren't the Skyweavers job.
I've also been more inclined lately to go with bigger units of Skyweavers (2 units of 4 or 1 of 6) rather than 3 min sized units, having better effectiveness on Lightning Reflexes seems more adventageous than having the extra CP from filling an Outrider detatchment. So in my case Bolas would really be a pretty minor contribution to anything.
Mainly a personal preference thing.

**Lithanial**

On Harlequins weapons loadouts - having spent far too long thinking about that one.

Harlequin's Kiss - Main weapon vs multi-wound invulnerable save targets, i.e. characters. Needs to be under Troupe Master Aura. Worth bringing 4 along on your Troupes as that's enough to mulch the average T4 6W 4++ character.
Harlequin's Caress - Main weapon if outside of Troupe Master aura or facing T8. Worth knowing that Troupe Master + Solitaire alone will at least do 4+ damage per combat to T8 so are pretty good at finishing these targets off.
Harlequin's Embrace - Main weapon if inside Troupe Master aura.

Do you like the Death Jester? He's quite cheap but looks useless on paper.

You either need to go for one as Dreaming Shadow and tool him up to get a pretty good ranged warlord who can snipe weaker characters, or otherwise use them in bulk to pile on the Shrieker rounds onto all the abundant MSU infantry squads that are about, so that your Troupes can focus on killing proper units.

**Amishprn86**

If you are doing Dreaming then DJ are good, you can hurt SM characters with Curtainfall on a 2+ to wound, add the stratagem to do even more damage.

**karandrasss**

Why are there so many Harlequins?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HMJ7rZ2y_ffBg3rESG0JxjTl8J0B9Uyl/view

**Slayer-Fan123**

It is because Harlequins are awesome.

**Ordana**

karandrasss wrote:
Why are there so many Harlequins?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HMJ7rZ2y_ffBg3rESG0JxjTl8J0B9Uyl/view

Because the way the pairings between teams works you can try to avoid the bad matchups for Harlequins.
A lot of lists that otherwise suffer from bad counter matchups become viable at the ETC because you will likely never get paired against your counter.

**karandrasss**

Which matchups would you rather have Harlequins over a shootier Aeldari?

**Slayer-Fan123**

karandrasss wrote:
Which matchups would you rather have Harlequins over a shootier Aeldari?

Harlequins are pretty good against swarms with their weight of attacks, and if the opponent has several units that don't want to be in melee because they want to shoot, Harlequins are quick enough to make that engagement.

**Weidekuh**

Harlequins are not really good against swarms.

What kills a Harlequin most efficient is weak high rate of fire shots -> Lasguns
Lots of weak CC attacks -> melee swarm units

What they are good against: few strong shots and melee attacks.

And they have probably some of the best anti vehicle and anti monster and anti elite units.
5 man troupes with fusion in a starweaver can potentially move between 16" - 35" before shooting, depending on masque / relic / stratagem used.
Skyweavers are very good against high toughness and high armor vehicles.

combine this with doom and jinx from craftworlds and you have an extremely potent "big guys" killer detachement.

**karandrasss**

They work a lot harder to make their points back than say, Ravagers or Kabalites with special and heavy weapons, though.

**Amishprn86**

Harlequins are good against Low value High AP

**Frowny**

People seem to be all over the sky weavers right now. I've seen lists built with as many as 10 or 12 of them...

Are they indeed the new hotness or is this more an answer to knights?

What masques are people finding the best for them?

If you are allying them in as an outrider in a de or elder lost, what are people doing for the hq?

**Ordana**

Sky Weavers have a guaranteed turn 1 charge. Haywires to deal with tanks and Glaives to deal with everything else.

Yes they are good.

Oh and they have -1 to hit, 3 wounds and an unvul save.

**Creeping Dementia**

They are a very solid pick, I'd be cautious about taking too many of them though as it can lead to a big unbalance. Taking 10-12 of them will work great when you're up against Guard, Knights, etc. However, in a tournament if your next pairing is against Nidzilla/daemon princes or other tough non-vehicle lists then you'll be having a very tough matchup.
I'm also finding that it can be tough to fit more than 8 Skyweavers in a list without starting to lose CPs from being unable to fill a second Battalion, and Harlies tend to be pretty hungry for CPs.

IMO 6-8 of them is a sweet spot, more and you getting unbalanced against some matchups, less and you're missing out on their versatility. And I don't see why you'd go with any Masque other than Soaring Spite for Skyweavers, maybe Dreaming Shadow?

**Frowny**

OK, next question. I was hoping to jncorporate and solid sized squad of sky weavers into a mostly DE/coven list. All the harly detachments are so expensive because the Harlie's themselves are..... what's the cheapest way to jncorportaate 6x sky weavers and not too much else? If I use an auxiliary detachment, do I still get a masque bonus?

**Creeping Dementia**

I usually just do a patrol detatchment when I add some Harlies to my Wych Cult list.
This is one of my favorites.

Spoiler:

It basically provides a bunch of anti-tank, which is something my Cult lists lack.

**mokoshkana**

Frowny wrote:
OK, next question. I was hoping to jncorporate and solid sized squad of sky weavers into a mostly DE/coven list. All the harly detachments are so expensive because the Harlie's themselves are..... what's the cheapest way to jncorportaate 6x sky weavers and not too much else? If I use an auxiliary detachment, do I still get a masque bonus?

I'd go with an Outrider detachment:

HQ:
Shadowseer with shuriken pistol = 125
Fast Attack:
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts

Total: 431

This is going to be the most effective way to run the bikes, but also the most expensive. You can save 30pts on the bikes by doing shuriken cannons instead of haywire, but that depends on how much anti vehicle you have in your DE section. You could save up to an additional 55 pts by replacing the shadowseer with a troup master, but he won't be able to keep up with the bikes. That point total is also stock without a weapon upgrade or a fusion pistol, but you lose a psyker for denial and smites.

**Amishprn86**

mokoshkana wrote:
Frowny wrote:
OK, next question. I was hoping to jncorporate and solid sized squad of sky weavers into a mostly DE/coven list. All the harly detachments are so expensive because the Harlie's themselves are..... what's the cheapest way to jncorportaate 6x sky weavers and not too much else? If I use an auxiliary detachment, do I still get a masque bonus?

I'd go with an Outrider detachment:

HQ:
Shadowseer with shuriken pistol = 125
Fast Attack:
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts

Total: 431

This is going to be the most effective way to run the bikes, but also the most expensive. You can save 30pts on the bikes by doing shuriken cannons instead of haywire, but that depends on how much anti vehicle you have in your DE section. You could save up to an additional 55 pts by replacing the shadowseer with a troup master, but he won't be able to keep up with the bikes. That point total is also stock without a weapon upgrade or a fusion pistol, but you lose a psyker for denial and smites.

This

But, if you wanted 1 unit of 6 for stratagems purpose, then do a Patrol of 1 HQ, 1x6 Skyweavers 1 Troupe unit.

**Ordana**

Amishprn86 wrote:
mokoshkana wrote:
Frowny wrote:
OK, next question. I was hoping to jncorporate and solid sized squad of sky weavers into a mostly DE/coven list. All the harly detachments are so expensive because the Harlie's themselves are..... what's the cheapest way to jncorportaate 6x sky weavers and not too much else? If I use an auxiliary detachment, do I still get a masque bonus?

I'd go with an Outrider detachment:

HQ:
Shadowseer with shuriken pistol = 125
Fast Attack:
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts

Total: 431

This is going to be the most effective way to run the bikes, but also the most expensive. You can save 30pts on the bikes by doing shuriken cannons instead of haywire, but that depends on how much anti vehicle you have in your DE section. You could save up to an additional 55 pts by replacing the shadowseer with a troup master, but he won't be able to keep up with the bikes. That point total is also stock without a weapon upgrade or a fusion pistol, but you lose a psyker for denial and smites.

This

But, if you wanted 1 unit of 6 for stratagems purpose, then do a Patrol of 1 HQ, 1x6 Skyweavers 1 Troupe unit.

I would rather have 3 units of 2 to charge 3 different locations on the table turn 1 then 1 unit of 6.

**Amishprn86**

Ordana wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
mokoshkana wrote:
Frowny wrote:
OK, next question. I was hoping to jncorporate and solid sized squad of sky weavers into a mostly DE/coven list. All the harly detachments are so expensive because the Harlie's themselves are..... what's the cheapest way to jncorportaate 6x sky weavers and not too much else? If I use an auxiliary detachment, do I still get a masque bonus?

I'd go with an Outrider detachment:

HQ:
Shadowseer with shuriken pistol = 125
Fast Attack:
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts

Total: 431

This is going to be the most effective way to run the bikes, but also the most expensive. You can save 30pts on the bikes by doing shuriken cannons instead of haywire, but that depends on how much anti vehicle you have in your DE section. You could save up to an additional 55 pts by replacing the shadowseer with a troup master, but he won't be able to keep up with the bikes. That point total is also stock without a weapon upgrade or a fusion pistol, but you lose a psyker for denial and smites.

This

But, if you wanted 1 unit of 6 for stratagems purpose, then do a Patrol of 1 HQ, 1x6 Skyweavers 1 Troupe unit.
I would rather have 3 units of 2 to charge 3 different locations on the table turn 1 then 1 unit of 6.

Again, depending if you want stratagems, 1 unit can DS for 1 CP, 1 unit can have -1 to hit via stratagem, 1 unit can have double movement via Twilight paths, 1 unit can have -1 to hit via other powers, 1 unit gains different benefits that might be more important than 3 units charging 3 units.

**mokoshkana**

Amishprn86 wrote:
Ordana wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
mokoshkana wrote:
Frowny wrote:
OK, next question. I was hoping to jncorporate and solid sized squad of sky weavers into a mostly DE/coven list. All the harly detachments are so expensive because the Harlie's themselves are..... what's the cheapest way to jncorportaate 6x sky weavers and not too much else? If I use an auxiliary detachment, do I still get a masque bonus?

I'd go with an Outrider detachment:

HQ:
Shadowseer with shuriken pistol = 125
Fast Attack:
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts

Total: 431

This is going to be the most effective way to run the bikes, but also the most expensive. You can save 30pts on the bikes by doing shuriken cannons instead of haywire, but that depends on how much anti vehicle you have in your DE section. You could save up to an additional 55 pts by replacing the shadowseer with a troup master, but he won't be able to keep up with the bikes. That point total is also stock without a weapon upgrade or a fusion pistol, but you lose a psyker for denial and smites.

This

But, if you wanted 1 unit of 6 for stratagems purpose, then do a Patrol of 1 HQ, 1x6 Skyweavers 1 Troupe unit.
I would rather have 3 units of 2 to charge 3 different locations on the table turn 1 then 1 unit of 6.

Again, depending if you want stratagems, 1 unit can DS for 1 CP, 1 unit can have -1 to hit via stratagem, 1 unit can have double movement via Twilight paths, 1 unit can have -1 to hit via other powers, 1 unit gains different benefits that might be more important than 3 units charging 3 units.

If you are deep striking Skyweavers, you're doing it wrong. That's 306 pts that you're keeping off of the table and relying on hitting a 9 inch charge on turn 2, which probably won't be against a quality unit. Even if you want to run 1 big unit, never DS them. Moving 16" + advancing 6" and then charging 2D6" is the whole reason to take them.

**Amishprn86**

mokoshkana wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
Ordana wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
mokoshkana wrote:
Frowny wrote:
OK, next question. I was hoping to jncorporate and solid sized squad of sky weavers into a mostly DE/coven list. All the harly detachments are so expensive because the Harlie's themselves are..... what's the cheapest way to jncorportaate 6x sky weavers and not too much else? If I use an auxiliary detachment, do I still get a masque bonus?

I'd go with an Outrider detachment:

HQ:
Shadowseer with shuriken pistol = 125
Fast Attack:
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts
Skyweaver x 2 with zephyr glaive and haywire cannon - 102pts

Total: 431

This is going to be the most effective way to run the bikes, but also the most expensive. You can save 30pts on the bikes by doing shuriken cannons instead of haywire, but that depends on how much anti vehicle you have in your DE section. You could save up to an additional 55 pts by replacing the shadowseer with a troup master, but he won't be able to keep up with the bikes. That point total is also stock without a weapon upgrade or a fusion pistol, but you lose a psyker for denial and smites.

This

But, if you wanted 1 unit of 6 for stratagems purpose, then do a Patrol of 1 HQ, 1x6 Skyweavers 1 Troupe unit.
I would rather have 3 units of 2 to charge 3 different locations on the table turn 1 then 1 unit of 6.

Again, depending if you want stratagems, 1 unit can DS for 1 CP, 1 unit can have -1 to hit via stratagem, 1 unit can have double movement via Twilight paths, 1 unit can have -1 to hit via other powers, 1 unit gains different benefits that might be more important than 3 units charging 3 units.
If you are deep striking Skyweavers, you're doing it wrong. That's 306 pts that you're keeping off of the table and relying on hitting a 9 inch charge on turn 2, which probably won't be against a quality unit. Even if you want to run 1 big unit, never DS them. Moving 16" + advancing 6" and then charging 2D6" is the whole reason to take them.

If you are not DSing Skyweavers vs a insane damage output knight or another shooting tank like super Heavies, or even Armigers, that are in the corner of the table that will target them turn 1, then you are playing them wrong. Its not all about turn 1 charges, you want to sometimes make sure you get 6D6 HWC shots out, Turn 1 charges will not always happen.

**Headlss**

Don't you play with terrain? Hide them.

**Amishprn86**

Headlss wrote:
Don't you play with terrain? Hide them.

Its another option you can do, if you dont want to play with 1x6 you dont have to, but you cant ignore the other options for it, yes DSing is 1 option, but again.... Stratagems and Powers are another option, they effect more models. All i'd suggest was a different way to play them that has good merits, im not saying 3x2 is bad.

You have many ways to play them, its good to see all the possible ways.

And PS, many units have ignore LoS

**Odrankt**

Hi all. New to harlequins so please bare with me. A few of my friends are heading to ETC and are playing a few games for some practice. They have asked me to play Harlequins/Drukhari if possible with a provided list. I agreed but made my own one up.

This is what I came up with

Spoiler:

Basic Troupe unit to be screen for DJ and prevent him from being targeted and/or charged. 2nd unit of Troups will go into a Starweaver w/ the T master and move into position in my opponents DZ. Shadowseer with FoD and Web dance will back up the Starweavers with an extra -1 to hit and 6+ FnP to make sure nothing dies T1. When everything is in position the last Troupe unit with mass Fusion and 2nd Shadowseer will DS and get into combat.

Skyweavers will harass enemy Vehicles and can be back up for the Starweaver.

Drukhair will simply use its speed and charge to its advantage. Succubus will be inbetween both reavers and just behind the Hellions. Hoping to do a lot of T1 damage to put my opponent off of targeting my Quins.

Using Player or Twilgiht WTrait because a lot of the Gems in both armies are quite expensive so good chance ill get some CPs back and prevent my opponent from activating a few more if possible.

I know some of the list is Drukhari and understand if you cant help there but if you have ideas for the main Quin side please give any info as I have most of every model so could make any detachment.

Thanks for any help you guys give me

**Asmodas**

If you are playing in ETC format, do you know the types of matchups the other team members are planning on using your army for? That would be useful information prior to critiquing the list.