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 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Well following up on what Geifer said with the mixed reception it might be that because of that they just want to offload as many copies before the full story comes out and more people go "meh", a pre-order 'beta' fits into that. I don't think it will be deceit and failure on the level of No Man's Sky (no one remotely competent should be able to make a game that boring after 5 min), it will be a by the numbers survival/building fps with a very dissapointing Fallout theme.

i don't think it will go that far, but some important things to remember:

ESO's (public) beta was largely just weekend events. Somewhere around 48-60 hours, repeated off and on over time.
Given that they're cycling through platforms (Xbox, PC, PS4) and saying they have specific dates for each one, this is going to be a fairly exaggerated and even shorter version of the same thing

Bethesda has been really militant about press copies and no early reviews. This isn't a new thing for FO76, for example, it hit Dishonored 2 really hard, because that was a mess on release and the policy created even more backlash.
Of course, since its a beta for a large amount of preorder fans, early impressions are going to be really widespread. But if some content is closed off, that should raise eyebrows.

Yes Bethesda has never been good with press copies and early reviews, of course considering the buggy start a lot of Bethesda games seem to have we all know the probable reason.

But it is new concerning F76, because they create the implication that if you pre order now you can start playing sooner. A lot of people have more money than patience. Its likely that more people have pre ordered because of the promise to play earlier, while otherwise they might not have. ESO had a paid base game too, but didn't ask money for the beta access. Did they have more faith in ESO than F76?

 Paradigm wrote:
Word is moddable private servers will be coming at some point after launch, I believe. I've seen that mentioned in a few places.

Todd Howard said so in an interview after E3. One hopes he should know.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Yes Bethesda has never been good with press copies and early reviews, of course considering the buggy start a lot of Bethesda games seem to have we all know the probable reason.

But it is new concerning F76, because they create the implication that if you pre order now you can start playing sooner. A lot of people have more money than patience. Its likely that more people have pre ordered because of the promise to play earlier, while otherwise they might not have. ESO had a paid base game too, but didn't ask money for the beta access. Did they have more faith in ESO than F76?

I take it as a sign that they have significant faith in the franchise (which Fallout 76 is now part of). Asking voluntary helpers to pay for the honor only works if you're confident that early access to the game is desirable to a lot of people.

Hehe that's the cynic in me thinking they are trying to squeeze out as much as fast as possible. And asking people to pay for helping a company is pretty bad from a consumer point of view. Not a fan at all.

As for private servers, they have talked about it, but for now it seems more of an if option which would then turn into a when option. If private servers (as in full local control, not via Bethesda) become available I might try, as long as it didn't turn out badly on release of course.

Yeah, the video game industry is very good at being "pretty bad from a consumer point of view". You ask me, they get away with far too much, but eh, there's apparently not enough of my kind to hurt their wallets enough to deliver better, more attractive product at a reasonable price. Instead we get release day bug fests with bits cut out to sell as DLC later.

This is why I usually don't subject myself to the business side of video games, hardly keep up with new releases and enjoy a game on its own merits without real life interferences. Makes things much more palatable.

Obviously that doesn't work with Fallout 76 due to the multiplayer aspects. My friends will be playing from the beginning, so I will be playing from the beginning. Got to keep up to be ready at release (or perhaps already for beta) because of that. Frankly, all the fuzz that is made about Fallout 76 and it being multiplayer and all that controversy has been as puzzling to me as it has been amusing. Heh!

 Paradigm wrote:
I don't think there's any risk of Bethesda abandoning single-player games any time soon. Their next two big releases (Starfield and TES:VI) are both set to be the kind of games they've made a name doing, and as a publisher they're continuing to back smaller single-player games like Prey, Dishonored, Wolfenstein ect.

FO76 is simply an experiment based on a lot of preexisting work done in making FO4, not a whole new direction for the series. ESO has been out for years now and while it gets regular support, it hardly seems to be inspiring a whole new style for the studio.

It didn't inspire a new style for Bethesda Studios because they didn't make ESO. That was Zenimax Online.

Its unfortunate that they went this route with their spin off game using the same engine, rather than giving us another Obsidian game (or even single player, with different writers). Though given that going into Fallout 4 there were criticisms that it had dated graphics, taking the game online may be a way to excuse those (not that I had any issue with them).

...Why aren't we having another Obsidian game again? No, I don't need to know the answer to that.

Most of the ex-Black Isle devs who worked on Fallout 2 and New Vegas left Obsidian. Obsidian isn't really the same team that made New Vegas anymore. So asking why we're not getting another Obsidian Fallout game is a moot point anyway.

With the new news about the BETA and how you will keep your save, and you are downloading the full game. I think they are grasping for more preorders.

Plus the only on Bethesda.net (i guess is a thing but I'm not part of the master race yet)

Got a link to those news?

I'll be honest, even though I prefer to have everything on one platform and for me that platform is Steam, I've come to hate having Ubisoft's launcher on top of that. Better to not get the game on Steam than having to go through another launcher because the publisher is... OK, I'm not going to finish that sentence. You get the idea. I have nothing nice to say about that practice.

Nothing on the Beta, but there's a bunch of info here, most of it sounds good.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-08-11-griefing-in-fallout-76-turns-you-into-a-wanted-criminal-with-a-bounty-on-your-head

Thank you. Yeah, sounds interesting. Looking forward to what mutations I can get.

The progress will be saved Link | https://fallout.bethesda.net/faq | Its the last tab on the bottom.

Post Quake Con, I haven't watched the panel but watched reviews of it. I think mutation are going to be interesting.

My worries are that getting stuck on a server with a team of 4 is going to be nightmarish. I dont know if the charisma perks stack but holy crap the perks that I've seen seem like a huge buff. I wonder if lone wanderer is going to some how counter act this.

I remember hearing somewhere that you can block people so they cant grief you. Why not block everyone?
The wanted system seems a little so-so without seeing it work in action. If you kill someone they drop their junk and that's about it, no armor or weapons. When you get killed you get caps taken from you if you are wanted.

It will be interesting to see if Bethesda will be the first company in gaming history to solve the troll/griefer problem. Personally I think it has a snow balls chance in hell of working but hopefully they prove me wrong.

I love Fallout but they won't be getting my money until after release and I can clearly see what I may be paying for. Fallout used to be about the story, 4's story was lack luster at best and it doesn't look like this one will have any story to speak of. When they allow private servers and I can play with a group of friends though they'll likely get my money if I'm honest with myself though, story or not.

So little more info to feast upon from quakecon and twitter posts.

1) If you find another player and shoot at them and they do not shoot back and you kill them then you are wanted. When wanted you show up on the mini map and have a bounty (which is paid from your caps) The higher your level the higher the bounty

2) If they do shoot back at you and you kill them you get some caps per the level difference and you get their junk, but they can respawn nearby and try to kill you again

3) You can block players like if they are greifing you or are being trolls, But that just means you are not shown on their mini map but they can still find you, so not a complete block.

4) There are NPC vendors through out the map, Pete Hines said when he plays he doesnt trade with other players but you can.

5) Trading works like you drop the item or put it in a container to exchange it. (reminds me of people in some old school games where people can run up and steal outright before a trade is completed)

6) Fast Traveling works like ESO, you pay more caps for the farther you are fast traveling. Fast traveling to Vault 76 is free.

#1 sounds like the ultimate griefing tool:

Find some way to announce your presence (or find the right angle so you aren't shooting 'at them'), they respond and you don't shoot back, they get pinged as wanted, you wander off and laugh. And yes, people *will* make starting characters with no stuff to troll others with.

#2, oo. So, the opposite of graveyard camping in MMOs. Once you kill someone, they've got the option to just keep hounding you.

#3, so... useless.

#5, yep. Another griefing tool. Whoever drops first is an idiot, even if there isn't a sprinter lurking to just take it and run.


This sounds.... great.

For 1 and 2 from how I interpreted what Todd H said when the shoot you their guns do less damage until they shoot back. Meaning hits I'm assuming. You are always on the map as long as you are not crouched, but its not a exact spot like every couple seconds it refreshes is what P Hines said.

But with it I think if a group is coming to get you and only one is firing or trying to get you to shoot him and the other waits for you to go wanted then kills you on the spot.

I'm thinking Beth is in for it, especially trying to not make this DayZ or the like, but have it open for players.

I will be waiting until the paid beta period(first 6 months of the games release) of this game is up before *maybe* getting it, if they can fix the troll problem that it seems like they have designed the game to cater to then I will be interested.

They're seriously opened it up to be a griefer/troll dream and I have yet to see anything that really makes me believe that they have a workable plan to prevent it. Anyone that has been playing online games for a long time will recognize a lot of the things they want to implement and will also recognize that those things did not work. There is a reason that PvP in basically every MMO is heavily restricted to either specific servers for it, specific areas for it, or a player controlled on/off switch, no one has figured out a good way to allow it game wide without it being abused. And I do not have a whole lot of faith that Bethesda will be the ones to discover that particular trick.

I can tell you now its going to be a gak-show
>No private servers
>Anti troll/griefer support basically doesnt exist
>Players that get slaughtered get respawned (probably sans stuff) close to their opponent
>Bounties on PK'ers are probably not going to matter much, or will be exploited
>Early. Access

Early Access players will build god-level characters and then just farm kills/XP off of the new, underequipped, players.

 master of ordinance wrote:
I can tell you now its going to be a gak-show
>No private servers
>Anti troll/griefer support basically doesnt exist
>Players that get slaughtered get respawned (probably sans stuff) close to their opponent
>Bounties on PK'ers are probably not going to matter much, or will be exploited
>Early. Access

Early Access players will build god-level characters and then just farm kills/XP off of the new, underequipped, players.

This is the reason, along with how massively toxic gaming culture has become with online games, that I have migrated to table top. At least there if someone is being an A-Hat I can haul of and punch them in the face for it to relieve my anger.

I find the 'punch-people-in-the face' mentality to be part of the same problem.

I find the ratio of decent people to overt tools to be far far better in person. Even in casual pick up play or tournament enviroments, it's way better. Something about human interaction takes the edge off, or maybe griefers don't get out much. Either way, I don't get any enjoyment out of online play hardly at all anymore.

I suppose a "Greifer" in real life situations faces some kind of a risk (whether that be getting slugged in the face, or social repercussions), whereas the online greifer's risk only extends to maybe getting banned from a server, or whatever.

Either way, I'm no expert in online gaming, but even I can see that what they've got in place now is full of loopholes for people like that to abuse.

 Maddok_Death wrote:
3) You can block players like if they are greifing you or are being trolls, But that just means you are not shown on their mini map but they can still find you, so not a complete block.

That sounds useless as an anti-griefing tool, but I do like the idea of being able to block everybody on a server to make myself invisible I can be more stealthy and avoid people.

there could be more to it like no damage from the blocked players or you cant see them either. Who knows really Beth had been a little trolly in their own way by not showing anything. They are showing all up coming games within the next coming days ESO, the ESO app game, Rage 2, and Prey but no 76... I'm glad that Dakka is on the same page that Beth isn't god (or T Howard). Love the hate

 master of ordinance wrote:

Early Access players will build god-level characters and then just farm kills/XP off of the new, underequipped, players.

That is easily solved. Server and character reset when it goes to build 1.0. Everyone starts on a clean slate.

 feeder wrote:
I find the ratio of decent people to overt tools to be far far better in person. Even in casual pick up play or tournament enviroments, it's way better. Something about human interaction takes the edge off, or maybe griefers don't get out much. Either way, I don't get any enjoyment out of online play hardly at all anymore.

Oh, yeah, the internet makes people feel like they're insulated from consequences; anonymity and all that.

Lots of people turn into "that guy" who tries too hard during the pick-up game at the YMCA: they believe that they're on a path towards basketball/streaming greatness.

 Togusa wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
I can tell you now its going to be a gak-show
>No private servers
>Anti troll/griefer support basically doesnt exist
>Players that get slaughtered get respawned (probably sans stuff) close to their opponent
>Bounties on PK'ers are probably not going to matter much, or will be exploited
>Early. Access

Early Access players will build god-level characters and then just farm kills/XP off of the new, underequipped, players.

This is the reason, along with how massively toxic gaming culture has become with online games, that I have migrated to table top. At least there if someone is being an A-Hat I can haul of and punch them in the face for it to relieve my anger.

This right here. . . I was fairly interested in this game, had they set it up more like Borderlands series where the MP is entirely optional, I would've probably gone for this game at some point.

It is almost like none of you have read any of the articles or watched any of the videos that have come out and are just running rampant on speculation.

They specifically said private servers will be a thing, just not at launch. There are plenty of mechanics that are going to let you avoid trolls and griefers. They answered quite a few questions about pvp and griefing.

Yeah they've answered all kinds of questions about pvp and griefing in the same ways that I have seen developers answer for the past 20ish years. I haven't seen anything in any of the interviews that made me think that Bethesda had come up with some new awesome way to prevent griefing, it's all stuff that has been tried before and it didn't work then.

Look I am a massive Fallout fan but the odds of this not being a dumpster fire of a mess are really low.