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Cynista wrote: The easiest way to get around the wargaming suicide bomber morality issue is to use drones. Like Necrons already do with the exploding Scarab strategem. Of course drones aren't really Guard's thing
Does everyone forget that the cyclops demolition vehicle already exists?
17,000 points (Valhallan)
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6,000 points (Order of Our Martyred Lady)
Proud Countess of House Terryn hosting 7 Knights, 2 Dominus Knights, and 8 Armigers
Stormcast Eternals: 7,000 points
"Remember, Orks are weak and cowardly, they are easily beat in close combat and their tusks, while menacing, can easily be pulled out with a sharp tug"
Something I would like to see for guard is a reworking of grinding advance. I haven't fully thought this through at all but perhaps target than double shoot for moving slowly they double shoot at half range or something like rapid fire.
It would help move away from the guard parking lot they tend to gravitate towards and encourage more mechanised cavalry charges to break through enemy lines.
I've just been reading Gaunts Ghosts Honour Guard and the tank battles are awesome!
Perhaps also a little more ability in melee on the charge. Dozer blades need to have a bit more of a bonus to them than just allowing them to hit on 5s. Maybe some AP or extra attacks.
9th edition really encourages movement and it would be nice to see Guard lean into that a little more...
Cynista wrote: The easiest way to get around the wargaming suicide bomber morality issue is to use drones. Like Necrons already do with the exploding Scarab strategem. Of course drones aren't really Guard's thing
Does everyone forget that the cyclops demolition vehicle already exists?
You're right, I didn't even know it existed. I kind of love it
We kind of already have a Predator in the Carnodon, though - it's got different weapon choices and I'm not up on any special rules the Predator gets so there might be something to gain there, but it's a T7 3+ M12" W12 twin-gun in turret, two side sponsons vehicle. I'd rather we could just use the Predator kit for it, of course ($111 for a fething not!Predator?! That'd be insane even if they could keep it in stock!).
I mentioned before that from a modelling perspective I would like a smaller tank. Anvil Industry seems to have brought out something in their digital forge that fits pretty well what I have in mind:
https://anvilindustry.co.uk/digital-tankette-and-tank-traps About the hight of a guardsman and maybe as long as an Elysian tauros. It also looks sufficiently rivetted and boxy. And the "artillery" variant with either 4x heavy stubber (?) or a single plasma cannon (?) would be interesting.
I do want more light vehicle options, such as:
- Centaurs: A return of the humble Centaur, the universal carrier of 40k. All they needed to do was increase the transport capacity to 6. That way it can also carry special weapon and heavy weapon squads. It could also be unique being the only open-topped transport the Guard have.
The some more unique Centaur options without any transport capacity but heavier weapons. All based off of real-life. Such as:
- Heavy Flamer
- Mortar
- Autocannon, or Lascannon
Spoiler:
More wheel vehicles would be nice too. We don’t have enough armoured cars in-game. Something like a Staghound, Daimler, Greyhound, etc.
Spoiler:
There’s four kinds of Armoured Cars I could see the Imperial Guard getting.
1) Something like a Daimler. Basically a Sentinel equivalent with a turret multi-laser and hopefully a coaxial heavy stubber. With all the same weapon upgrades as a Sentinel.
2) Something like an original Staghound (with the 37mm). Basically a Chimera equivalent in firepower. With a turret multi-laser, coaxial heavy stubber and hull heavy stubber. The turret weapon would have the same upgrade options as a Sentinel and the hull weapon the same as a Chimera.
3) Something a bit more modern like a French AML. Maybe with Taurox Prime level firepower, maybe even a Conqueror cannon or Battle cannon.
4) Would be something slightly more different. More a recon or support vehicle. Something inspired by a German Sd.Kfz.263. Armed with a single heavy stubber. Then either with the ability to call down artillery, remove a targets cover, or give units shooting at a target +1 to hit. The latter two would be aura abilities of course.
My opinion is Guard don’t need motorbike units. There’s enough of them in-game already. They should have cheap armoured car squadrons instead. Treat Armoured Sentinels more like heavy infantry but in vehicles, armoured cars would have 14 inch move, no close combat (WS6+ and 1 attack level bad), and similar stats to an armoured sentinel.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/05/01 13:45:11
Jarms48 wrote: ...My opinion is Guard don’t need motorbike units...
You know, I could see use for motorbike units as some sort of dragoon-type unit, kind of a sidegrade to Armored Fist squads (or for Rough Rider equivalents from not!MadMax worlds). We'd "need" it less than an armored car sort of unit, but there'd be room for them, I think.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/01 15:31:42
I'm actually going to build my Atlan Jackals as passable humans using the "Sons of Chaos" biker heads from Mad Robot. I can slot them in with guard for narrative missions. Would be cool to have biker squads. Take a cue from GI joe and have a bike with a heavy bolter side car
By the way I'm now builiding a command chimera. Concept for narrative play will be it can issue one infantry order or one tank order per turn. It has a 24" range to order vox casters / tanks. Thinking it only carries six, or maybe 10. The commander has to stay on board for it to be a command tank, probably has an assistant, so that cuts it down to 10, or as I said, maybe down to six to help distinguish it from other transports (but still carry a command squad / special weapon squad) and off-set the benefits. Will have to think of what stratagems it would have. Perhaps as a warlord it could issue 2 orders per turn, or perhaps it's a stratagem.
Again, not a new model, but what about "spider holes"? Somehow some tokens are put down, and later inthe game you can pop out a special weapon squad from one of them.
I think a command chimera shouldn't have any capacity.
All the interior volume is taken up by the long ranged vox sets, map tables, and such like.
If you look at typical APCs and their command variants, that's how it works.
I think the issue with getting new stuff for Guard is that all the modern combat roles are already represented by something. Conscripts, light infantry, heavy infantry, mechanised infantry. All done. Infiltrators, Ratlings. Super heavy assault infantry, Ogryns. Mounted infantry, rough riders. Even the super specialist roles of artillery spotter and forward air observer have been covered. Covers all relevant roles.
Russ variants and Forgeworld units fill all possible medium and heavy tank roles from tank destroyers through MBTs up to siege and assault tanks.
Every conceivable artillery has been set out at some point. Shell and rocket, dumb and smart.
The light armour role potentially hasn’t had much love, partly because all conceivable roles are taken by either the Sentinel, hellhound or chimera. Anything new is just rehashing something that already exists.
So anything new will be twiddling with aesthetics which are a very personal thing.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
I do agree.
Other than a Command Chimera, I don't think there's anything the Imperial Guard needs.
They just what they have to not suck, and turn some of the Forgeworld stuff to more mainstream, especially some of the discontinued stuff.
This is a honest list, Flinty. But there is still a component missing. I'm repeating myself here, but the light reconnaissance vehicle is still lacking in Astra Militarumm arsenal. This is a component of some current or recent military forces that feels more plausible for AM than ol' cavalry. Except for parade shows, cavalry has dissapeared from armies since begginning of 2nd world war. AM has neither of them, and I would like the return of a fast reconnaissance vehicle much more than the return of rough riders.
Flinty wrote: ...all the modern combat roles are already represented...
Mostly? As mentioned, we are missing armored car equivalents (I don't count Sentinels since they're walkers and M9" - I'd be looking for something like a Salamander Scout vehicle with weapon options instead. Possibly Tauroxen if the transport capacity could be taken as an upgrade instead of being baked into the unit and regular Tauroxen got the same weapon options as Primes).
Oh, speaking of Tauroxen - we're also missing a basic troop transport with no baked in heavy weapons. Centaurs got Legends'd and could only carry half-squads anyways, so having a base Taurox be just the transport plus heavy stubber with an option to add some heavy weapons while the Prime got to be a FA choice that could buy transport capacity would be really neat (this would require Primes to not be locked to transporting Tempestus, but Tempestus should be just a regular fething <Regiment> anyways).
Also, I will note that this is the Imperial Guard. We don't need to look purely at modern combat roles for inspiration because we've got an entire galaxy worth of planets of any and all tech levels, and I think it'd be kind of cool for older unit types like Dragoons to get some love in the main codex to show that.
As for Command Chimeras, I think I'd rather GW just allowed orders to be issued while embarked. That would probably have to be restricted to Dedicated Transports specifically to avoid shenanigans with superheavies or fliers, but I'd rather they gave us the option to do it with transports other than the Chimera to give people a little more breathing space with themed listbuilding.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/02 15:05:09
kirotheavenger wrote: I think a command chimera shouldn't have any capacity.
All the interior volume is taken up by the long ranged vox sets, map tables, and such like.
If you look at typical APCs and their command variants, that's how it works.
The Chimera was designed to function as a command vehicle as well as transport. That's why it used to have a rule called "Mobile Command Vehicle", until it got ganked into a Stratagem.
Anyways, obligatory "don't bother with new units until the mechanics of the army are solidified into something meaningful to the current iteration of the game" comment.
Fluff wise though, sentinels are the light recon vehicle. And then there is the salamander as well. All that is missing is the aesthetics of one of these units using wheels rather than tracks or legs. The guard are supposed to be the modern/recent historical combat force equivalent, so while the galaxy had a lot of different ways of doing things, they pretty much boil down to troops that are already represented. Rough riders don’t need to be riding horses. Stick flight packs in them instead, but they still fill the role of rapid deployment infantry with frills. I did mine with mechanical exoskeletons.
I agree that Guard currently don’t have a small wheeled scout vehicle, but that niche is supplied with 2 separate vehicles that do that job (and then the Tauros as the ultr-light scout variant)
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
If we desperately, desperately need a wheeled scout vehicle--that's where bikes could definitely show up in a meaningful way.
I cooked up rules years ago for Outriders that were bike-mounted and had an 'action' they could take, to deploy a Sensor Uplink that allowed for bonuses to artillery or indirect fire weapons against units that trigger the Sensors. The Outriders themselves were just standard Guardsmen with laspistols, a fast bike, and a voxcaster uplink.
One of the meaningful changes that could be made to Guard would be to address the idea of everything being able to be offensive. A few more utility/buff units could go a long way towards making the army feel unique in a world where Genestealer Cults are now a thing--especially if it's coupled with a meaningful revision to the 'basic infantry types' of Guard and restrictions on what armies like GSC can pull from the book.
I thought of this thread when I bumped into the Megaforce destroyer sand rail.
Not sure how to make it really work though. Lighter and faster than a sentinel would get it killed probably too quickly to be useful. Unless you could take it in numbers like the sentinel. Give it a standard storm bolter, and options you could change out. Hell, if you rigged it like the movie you could add 3 hunter killer missiles, or two heavy stubbers, or a hotshot lasgun.
Probably too crazy to be a serious option, on the other hand it might be fun to homebrew one for grins.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/01 02:50:26
Never seen Megaforce myself, and I hate to look at a buggy and just say "Tauros!", but I'd figure they'd be a good start for the chassis. Does the Destroyer have any special armor/defenses?
In the movie the only other special observations was it an ability to be remote piloted as a kamikaze attack, and it's paint turned dark at night as with the rest of the force vehicles. Beyond that, just speed kept it alive. It was a high speed glass cannon.
It was a cheesy movie (2min 16sec)
This was just the only other niche between Tauros and bikers I could think up.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/03 02:49:44
Tankettes something the size of a centaur, to use a real world comparison the Italian L3. Give it twin heavy bolters, which can be swapped for twin heavy flamers, or can be upgraded to autocannons or lascannons.
Half-tracks? Like the US M3 or M5. Cargo trucks? Just a cheap, no weapon transport, maybe even T5, 4+ save.
Expand Scions as their own thing. Melee Scions, with chainswords and hotshot laspistols. Shield Scions with pistols or chainswords.
Honestly, I can’t think of anything else than what I’ve already mentioned below.
Jarms48 wrote: Damn, I feel like nearly everything for Guard has already been done and just needs to come back.
Regiment Options:
- All named regiments get at least 1 warlord trait, 1 relic, 1 stratagem, 1 order, and 1 character.
- Bring back Attila, Death Korps of Krieg, Elysia, Last Chancers, Praetorians, Tanith 1st and Only as named regiments.
- Inquisitorial Storm Troopers Militarum Tempestus units can swap their Tempestus Regiment keyword for the Ordo keyword.
Special Weapons:
- Bolters, Heavy Stubbers and Anti-material Rifles as additional special weapon options. Anti-material Rifles would be similar autocannon strength sniper rifles.
Heavy Weapons:
- Heavy Flamers (see the old DKOK Grenadiers), Multi-lasers, and Twin Heavy Stubbers for infantry.
- Heavy Stubbers as hull and sponson options for tanks.
Supreme Commander:
- Super-heavy Tank Commander
- Lord Solar Macharius: He's dead sure, but we should be able to imagine we're playing during his crusade.
HQ:
- Auxiliary Commander: Basically a company commander for auxiliary units.
- Mounted Commander: A horse mounted company commander.
- Chimera Artillery Command Vehicle: Orders artillery units.
- Hellhound Commander: Orders units of hellhounds.
- Salamander Command Tank: Orders units of salamander scouts.
- Sentinel Commander: Orders units of sentinels.
Troops:
- Dragoons: Basically infantry squads on horses. No heavy weapon, but can take 2 special weapons.
- Grenadiers: Basically scions but no aerial drop and has the Regiment; keyword.
- Ogryns: To give them something over Bullgryns.
- Penal Legion Squad: Basically the melee alternative to veterans. Has WS3+ and BS4+, starts with lasguns but can swap these out for shotguns, or laspistols and chainswords.
- Platoons: Some way to bring multiple Infantry Squads per Troops choice.
- Ratling Infantry Squad: Ratlings with lasguns, can optionally upgrade them with demolition charges.
- Veterans: Bring them back.
Dedicated Transport:
- Centaurs: The only issue with them was the transport size. Increase them to 6 models, then they can actually carry things like special weapon and heavy weapon squads.
- Chimeras: More turret weapon options, bring back the Autocannon and Twin Heavy Bolters, add Lascannons, Plasma Cannons, and Multi-meltas. Add an option to make it a medical vehicle with a 6+++ aura and the ability to return/heal models.
- Chimerax
- Chimedon
- Chimerro
Elites:
- Forward Operators: Basically an infantry squad that can deploy 9 - 12 inches away from enemy models and enemy deployment.
Fast Attack:
- Armoured Cars: Something that looks like a Staghound/M8/Daimler/etc.
- Drop Sentinels: Bring these guys back as well. Similar to the above they should be made into Militarum Tempestus units. Giving that faction some much needed heavy firepower.
- Rough Riders: They just have to come back.
- Salamander Scout: As heavier tracked alternatives to sentinels.
- Sentinel Powerlifters: Remove their scout vehicle ability and give them the support vehicle ability from the trojan instead.
- Tauros: They also need to come back, except with Elysians as a codex gone they should be made Militarum Tempestus units. With a buff to BS3+ to represent their scion crews.
Heavy Support:
- Artillery Carriages: Too many to name, bring them all back. All of them.
- Battlecannon Carriage: Similar to the old artillery carriages there needs to be one with a direct-fire weapon.
- Hydras: With options to swap the autocannons for lascannons, or skyeagle rockets.
- Leman Russ (Twin Multi-melta): No idea on what it'd be called, but could you imagine 8 turret multi-melta shots coming out after grinding advance?
- Manticores: More rocket and missile options. Such as swapping the 4 Storm Eagle Rockets for either 8 Hellfury Missiles, 8 Hellstrike Missiles, 8 Hunter-killer Missiles, or 8 Skystrike Missiles.
- Militarum Tempestus Heavy Weapons Squad: With the above as well this would allow an MT detachment to actually take Brigades.
- Ordinance Batteries: Bring back the old school chimera based open-topped Griffon, Medusa, and Colossus.
- Thunderer: More thunderer variants such as battle cannon, and vanquisher cannon.
LoW:
- Macharius Heavy Tanks: We have the famous Octoblade so having a single Macharius plastic kit with 8 options would be awesome as well. The 4 new variants could have things like the Tremor Cannon, Magma Cannon, Stormsword Cannon, and Baneblade Cannon (with no Autocannon). Basically a cheaper method to get Baneblade scale weaponry and cutting out the chaff like them being transports or paying for hull Demolisher Cannons as well.
Fortifications:
- Turret Emplacement: Bring back the old Chimera and Leman Russ turret bunkers.
Jarms48 wrote: I do want more light vehicle options, such as:
- Centaurs: A return of the humble Centaur, the universal carrier of 40k. All they needed to do was increase the transport capacity to 6. That way it can also carry special weapon and heavy weapon squads. It could also be unique being the only open-topped transport the Guard have.
The some more unique Centaur options without any transport capacity but heavier weapons. All based off of real-life. Such as:
- Heavy Flamer
- Mortar
- Autocannon, or Lascannon
Spoiler:
More wheel vehicles would be nice too. We don’t have enough armoured cars in-game. Something like a Staghound, Daimler, Greyhound, etc.
Spoiler:
There’s four kinds of Armoured Cars I could see the Imperial Guard getting.
1) Something like a Daimler. Basically a Sentinel equivalent with a turret multi-laser and hopefully a coaxial heavy stubber. With all the same weapon upgrades as a Sentinel.
2) Something like an original Staghound (with the 37mm). Basically a Chimera equivalent in firepower. With a turret multi-laser, coaxial heavy stubber and hull heavy stubber. The turret weapon would have the same upgrade options as a Sentinel and the hull weapon the same as a Chimera.
3) Something a bit more modern like a French AML. Maybe with Taurox Prime level firepower, maybe even a Conqueror cannon or Battle cannon.
4) Would be something slightly more different. More a recon or support vehicle. Something inspired by a German Sd.Kfz.263. Armed with a single heavy stubber. Then either with the ability to call down artillery, remove a targets cover, or give units shooting at a target +1 to hit. The latter two would be aura abilities of course.
My opinion is Guard don’t need motorbike units. There’s enough of them in-game already. They should have cheap armoured car squadrons instead. Treat Armoured Sentinels more like heavy infantry but in vehicles, armoured cars would have 14 inch move, no close combat (WS6+ and 1 attack level bad), and similar stats to an armoured sentinel.
Crassus chassis vehicles of some sort would be great in plastic though I know extremely unlikely. Also just general crews for vehicles like Ork mek Gunz. The basilisk looks pretty naked without some guys hanging out on the back of it.
IIRC there used to be a separate tank crew kit/sprue as crew could survive the destruction of their vehicle, but GW probably just assumes that people will buy extra Guardsmen to use as crewmen at the moment.
I want an HQ who is known as a hero to abhumans- someone who gives buffs to Ogryns and Ratlings.
We also need lieutenant level generic HQ's- every command option being a company level commander is ridiculous. I tried to distribute a guard force across 8 territories for map based campaign, and we had to house rule Platoon commanders as HQ instead of elite- otherwise we needed 9 company level commanders for 200 troops.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/03 17:48:00
RegularGuy wrote: I thought of this thread when I bumped into the Megaforce destroyer sand rail.
Not sure how to make it really work though. Lighter and faster than a sentinel would get it killed probably too quickly to be useful. Unless you could take it in numbers like the sentinel. Give it a standard storm bolter, and options you could change out. Hell, if you rigged it like the movie you could add 3 hunter killer missiles, or two heavy stubbers, or a hotshot lasgun.
Probably too crazy to be a serious option, on the other hand it might be fun to homebrew one for grins.
You get me!
All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand
PenitentJake wrote: I want an HQ who is known as a hero to abhumans- someone who gives buffs to Ogryns and Ratlings.
We also need lieutenant level generic HQ's- every command option being a company level commander is ridiculous. I tried to distribute a guard force across 8 territories for map based campaign, and we had to house rule Platoon commanders as HQ instead of elite- otherwise we needed 9 company level commanders for 200 troops.
To your point, in my own fluff Company Commanders really span from generals, majors, colonels all the way down to lieutenants, and corresponding gradations for NCOs. I also vary the figure I’m putting together (with conversion parts) accordingly (e.g. Anything under general has a short coat, where as generals have a long coat, etc).
RegularGuy wrote: I thought of this thread when I bumped into the Megaforce destroyer sand rail.
...
Not sure how to make it really work though. Lighter and faster than a sentinel would get it killed probably too quickly to be useful. Unless you could take it in numbers like the sentinel. Give it a standard storm bolter, and options you could change out. Hell, if you rigged it like the movie you could add 3 hunter killer missiles, or two heavy stubbers, or a hotshot lasgun.
Probably too crazy to be a serious option, on the other hand it might be fun to homebrew one for grins.
You get me!
I'm going to homebrew these anyways and report back
PenitentJake wrote: I want an HQ who is known as a hero to abhumans- someone who gives buffs to Ogryns and Ratlings.
We also need lieutenant level generic HQ's- every command option being a company level commander is ridiculous. I tried to distribute a guard force across 8 territories for map based campaign, and we had to house rule Platoon commanders as HQ instead of elite- otherwise we needed 9 company level commanders for 200 troops.
A platoon commander is literally a lieutenant. A company commander is a Captain or Major. A regiment commander is a Colonel. While an army group commander is a general.
A platoon commander may be literally a lieutenant, but if they are an elite choice instead of HQ, what they are literally doesn't mean jack because they can't actually lead a detachment in the game.
Hence our house rule making them HQ.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/04 04:14:53
17,000 points (Valhallan)
10,000 points
6,000 points (Order of Our Martyred Lady)
Proud Countess of House Terryn hosting 7 Knights, 2 Dominus Knights, and 8 Armigers
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
819 build and painted
830 
I'm going to homebrew these anyways and report back