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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
caladancid wrote:
Pointing out bad things in the hope they get better isn't being a troll, it isn't being a black knight, it isn't anything other than attempting to stop what is a clearly bad path.
I'm starting to believe that there really are a bunch of people here who have buried so much of their identity into GW products that the very thought of them doing something wrong chills them to the core, and thus they lash out at anyone suggesting otherwise.

This entire thread is a microcosm, where a good chunk of those arguing that this NDA was fake or whatever did so via a stream of smarmy passive-aggressive (and sometimes outright aggressive) insulting posts.


Yes I did, and I don't regret a single smarmy post.

What I am starting to work on is a larger thread on the warhammer community as a whole and the perceived health of it. It's interesting to think about at the very least.
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

drbored wrote:

So even if the only people that get GW product early HAVE TO put it in a positive light somehow, most fans will just wait for the "real" reviews to come out anyway. This is the biz. This is how it works with video game companies giving people early reviews of their video games or other sponsorship deals.


Tell me, DrBored, what companies games sell out all available copies in the first 15 min that they're available for preorder? For someone who claims to be working on a thread on the health of the Warhammer Community, you don't seem very familiar with it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/25 02:00:23



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BaronIveagh wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Except we know that's not happening.



Yet. You're assuming that what we have had till now is the same thing that we will have going forward.


And what's your great fear out of all of this? Let's say this new NDA is standard. What is your concern going forward?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
drbored wrote:

So even if the only people that get GW product early HAVE TO put it in a positive light somehow, most fans will just wait for the "real" reviews to come out anyway. This is the biz. This is how it works with video game companies giving people early reviews of their video games or other sponsorship deals.


Tell me, DrBored, what companies games sell out all available copies in the first 15 min that they're available for preorder?


Pokemon cards. Anime figures. Gundams sometimes.

As for the health of the community, the point of the post would be to explore that and learn from it. I'm willing to admit that I don't know a lot about a lot.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/25 02:05:31


 
   
Made in gb
Hard-Wired Sentinel Pilot





drbored wrote:


Cool, so... then what? Well, at this point, everything that could be done is done, and all that we're left with is a lot of petty, pedantic arguments between strangers on the Internet, further dividing an already split community.

Neat.


This could sum up so many threads and discussions in this community. You're absolutely right. There is a tendency to completely forget that almost everyone here is a 40K player. People who engage in, and enjoy, the same hobby. We're all members of the same community.

When was a part of the 40K hobby, arguing about any and all aspects of that hobby, largely for the sake of it, on a forum? Has that ever achieved anything? Is there an award of ITC points in secret for thread 'winner' that I've missed (maybe I need to argue harder and 'win' a thread to find out).

The fact is, and this is a fact, GW have acted based on requests/comments/pressure from the player base before. We could probably see some of the problems in the hobby that people largely agree on, changed, if we were willing to pull in the same direction once in a while. And the energy expended likely wouldn't be a lot different to that used up in fruitless argument.

Some of the issue is (I believe) pride. It can sting when you realise you were wrong, and sometimes we'll fight in an incredibly bloody-minded manner to be perceived as right. But I think you can also learn to enjoy it, even revel in it. It's hard to learn anything by constantly being right, I learn and I grow by being wrong and realising it.

I can't say whether that NDA is real or not. I can't. But there is this: I think Baron was right when he mentioned Occams razor to me earlier. There are more assumptions involved in holding the position that this is a fake. If it's fabricated, or a mistake or whatever - none of this really matters anyway. If this really is being sent out by GW - as you say, then what?

   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

drbored wrote:

And what's your great fear out of all of this? Let's say this new NDA is standard. What is your concern going forward?


That emboldened by this, GW will revert to the bad old days, in a steady stream of ever more anti consumer practices until they strangle the hobby and switch to an all multimedia company.


drbored wrote:

Pokemon cards. Anime figures. Gundams sometimes.


Wrong. (WotC will usually have a second print run of a Pokemon set that completely sells out in the first 15 min, if such a thing happens, which I've never heard of it happening) and neither of the next two are games.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/25 02:10:33



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BaronIveagh wrote:
drbored wrote:

And what's your great fear out of all of this? Let's say this new NDA is standard. What is your concern going forward?


That emboldened by this, GW will revert to the bad old days, in a steady stream of ever more anti consumer practices until they strangle the hobby and switch to an all multimedia company.


drbored wrote:

Pokemon cards. Anime figures. Gundams sometimes.


Wrong. and neither of the next two are games.


Ok fair, the other two aren't games, but yes, Pokemon Cards absolutely sell out in hypershort periods of time, especially earlier on in the pandemic when certain sets had very rare and very popular Pokemon featured on cards. A friend is a super-fan of Umbreon and pokemon cards, so I've learned a thing or two from him and his struggles over the past year, but I can see you're more interested in rubbing my face in the dirt than engaging, so ok.

And if GW does that, well, I guess we'll have to deal with that when it happens, won't we? I'm sure many parts of the community, Dakkadakka, r/sigmarxism, and others will be up in arms the entire way through it all. As it stands, you didn't address my previous questions of "what are we supposed to do, beyond the obvious angry letters and not participating in GW's NDAs?"

For someone who apparently knows much more about the Warhammer community than I do, I figured you'd have some valuable insight on actions we could take to help steer GW back onto a track that's more community-friendly and community-first. So far, all you seem to want to do is kick people's shins and try to get people to agree that GW IS BAD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 StrayIight wrote:
drbored wrote:


Cool, so... then what? Well, at this point, everything that could be done is done, and all that we're left with is a lot of petty, pedantic arguments between strangers on the Internet, further dividing an already split community.

Neat.


This could sum up so many threads and discussions in this community. You're absolutely right. There is a tendency to completely forget that almost everyone here is a 40K player. People who engage in, and enjoy, the same hobby. We're all members of the same community.

When was a part of the 40K hobby, arguing about any and all aspects of that hobby, largely for the sake of it, on a forum? Has that ever achieved anything? Is there an award of ITC points in secret for thread 'winner' that I've missed (maybe I need to argue harder and 'win' a thread to find out).

The fact is, and this is a fact, GW have acted based on requests/comments/pressure from the player base before. We could probably see some of the problems in the hobby that people largely agree on, changed, if we were willing to pull in the same direction once in a while. And the energy expended likely wouldn't be a lot different to that used up in fruitless argument.

Some of the issue is (I believe) pride. It can sting when you realise you were wrong, and sometimes we'll fight in an incredibly bloody-minded manner to be perceived as right. But I think you can also learn to enjoy it, even revel in it. It's hard to learn anything by constantly being right, I learn and I grow by being wrong and realising it.

I can't say whether that NDA is real or not. I can't. But there is this: I think Baron was right when he mentioned Occams razor to me earlier. There are more assumptions involved in holding the position that this is a fake. If it's fabricated, or a mistake or whatever - none of this really matters anyway. If this really is being sent out by GW - as you say, then what?



Agree 100%. Which is why I was happy to relinquish the argument about it being fake and return to the basics of the debate. Admitting when you're wrong, or conceding ground in an argument, is absolutely the most refreshing thing a person can do, right up there with apologizing. Both of these things, few people see a need to do on the internet, since they can hide behind anonymity, but people remember usernames, and they remember trends.

If what we need to do is all send angry letters to GW, I'm all on board, but there's still a lot we don't know about the circumstances of the NDA contract. Is it the only contract? Who exactly did it go to and what were the circumstances? What are those people signing up to actually do for GW? Will GW be replacing older contracts with these new ones when the older ones expire? We just don't know.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/25 02:20:04


 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

drbored wrote:
[
For someone who apparently knows much more about the Warhammer community than I do, I figured you'd have some valuable insight on actions we could take to help steer GW back onto a track that's more community-friendly and community-first. So far, all you seem to want to do is kick people's shins and try to get people to agree that GW IS BAD.


I actually didn't see your previous post.

Last time, to achieve this end, we simply stopped buying their products and FFG passed them in sales. However, with the current crop of GW fans, they all act so brainwashed that frankly, I'm tempted to tie them up and subject them to deprogramming. All I can do without breaking the law is force people to acknowledge that gak is fethed, and we need to do something about it, before we can ever hope to actually do something about it.

The first step to solving any problem is to admit that the problem exists. Until that happens, not only will it not get fixed, but these guys will fight to make sure that the problem remains unfixed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/25 02:31:10



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BaronIveagh wrote:
drbored wrote:
[
For someone who apparently knows much more about the Warhammer community than I do, I figured you'd have some valuable insight on actions we could take to help steer GW back onto a track that's more community-friendly and community-first. So far, all you seem to want to do is kick people's shins and try to get people to agree that GW IS BAD.


I actually didn't see your previous post.

Last time, to achieve this end, we simply stopped buying their products and FFG passed them in sales. However, with the current crop of GW fans, they all act so brainwashed that frankly, I'm tempted to tie them up and subject them to deprogramming. All I can do without breaking the law is force people to acknowledge that gak is fethed, and we need to do something about it, before we can ever hope to actually do something about it.


To me, this is part of the larger issue, this sort of mentality. It's no news that GW has been focused on drawing in, or even 'recruiting' new hobbyists over catering to older hobbyists, and the reason that they would as a business is obvious. If they cater to the 'old guard', they must bend to their will, whereas if they recruit new players, they can pull the wool over their eyes with greater ease.

The other side of this, however, is that a growing business or fandom is just going to be more diverse by nature. I've seen just as many new players dip their toe in and turn on GW, mimicking the ways of the 'old guard'. There's also the factor that many hobbyists, new OR old, sometimes just don't give a crap about what GW does on the business side of things. Content creators getting a raw deal? Tough, that's their business.

Saying one is necessarily right or wrong isn't really the way to go. What I can say is pretending like your way is the only way and that everyone else needs to be "un-brainwashed" (or, in other terms, brainwashed in your preferred way), is... well, not gunna get you any sort of cohesive group. People have different opinions, and the idea that a person must either be a bootlicker GW fanboy or a grognard neckbeard of the old ways is a trend that I'd love to see die off.

As said before, we're all here to enjoy the hobby, right? Why are we letting other people dictate how we're supposed to have fun with our toys?
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





I think suggesting anyone who doesn't hate GW with a firey passion....... well giving them money, is brainwashed is pretty insulting.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





BrianDavion wrote:
I think suggesting anyone who doesn't hate GW with a firey passion....... well giving them money, is brainwashed is pretty insulting.


As is being called a bootlicker, fanboy, and all the other dismissive ways that GW haters sling just because someone isn't upset about something. This is where we are.
   
Made in us
Cold-Blooded Saurus Warrior




Xalapa, Veracruz

Can I have an actual lawyer, specialized on this area, on this forum to actually explain to explain us in common language what does this actually mean?

I'm not a legal man (wait what?) so I'll reserve myself from looking stupid on the internet.
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Hsien





Gosport, UK

 BaronIveagh wrote:
drbored wrote:

And what's your great fear out of all of this? Let's say this new NDA is standard. What is your concern going forward?


That emboldened by this, GW will revert to the bad old days, in a steady stream of ever more anti consumer practices until they strangle the hobby and switch to an all multimedia company.


drbored wrote:

Pokemon cards. Anime figures. Gundams sometimes.


Wrong. (WotC will usually have a second print run of a Pokemon set that completely sells out in the first 15 min, if such a thing happens, which I've never heard of it happening) and neither of the next two are games.


Wizards of the Coast haven’t published the Pokemon TCG since like 2003, fwiw. Pokémon card products routinely sell out. They might do another print run, but so does GW sometimes. Scalpers are as big a thing for poke cards (well probably bigger, just due to how big Pokemon is) as they are for Warhammer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/25 06:03:14


 
   
Made in gb
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






I work for a further education college in the UK. Whilst the language is not exactly the same, it is fairly similar to the NDA and non compete section of the contracts I have had to sign before.

It seems mostly standard legal lingo. Of course context is everything, and some of the wordings look a bit more restrictive than you'd expect, but many NDA's seem to be worded like that.

On another note, how big do you think the legal team at GW actually is, and how much time do they have just to survey the people who have signed NDA's for them.

I don't have my nose firmly placed within the backside of GW, but being pragmatic about it.... It doesn't seem all that bad from GW and it doesn't seem feasible that they could enforce every breach without being alerted to it.

For the GW conspiracy nuts out there, maybe actually don't speak about it as much, and talk about explicit examples of potential breaches on public forums, as you are just doing the legal teams jobs for them.

The community is so toxic at the moment, and honestly, other events and breaches of peoples rights in the world could do with your attention so much more if you must get fired up about something.

My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
Blog 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

As I said before, the only wired thing is the timeframe, wich is not standard and very long for content creators in general.
3 years would be ok (still not normal but with an Edition cycle of 3 years understandable) for in house designers

And from what we heard, GW legal department is larger than their proofreading department

And people waiting for "real" reviews before they buy, well with products aiming to sell out on pre-order no real chance to wait for a real review before you buy


Very likely GW just copying different stuff together to have a new Influencer NDA without checking what is needed or the standard is
(Same as they do with rules)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/25 07:45:57


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 StrayIight wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:


Doubtful.

Here is the original thread he posted to Reddit. Either someone has told multiple small to medium channels and all of them have been duped, or Occam's razor says it's real.

There are multiple YouTubers in that thread like Goobertown and Midwinter Minis corroborating the info. I'm leaning towards legit.


Hmm. I think stating MM is 'corroborating' the info is rather misleading. He states quite clearly: 'Fortunately, the document I signed was not as insidious as this.'

That seems more like the opposite of corroboration. He says the NDA he was under was not this one.


Apologies, should have provided more context there (plus what happens when you link a thread when all other people have said context of that comment...). MWM terminated his NDA approx a year ago. So, the context of that quote is "Fortunately, the document I signed (several years ago) was not as insidious as this (presumably new copy they are asking several YouTubers to sign)."



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 kodos wrote:


And people waiting for "real" reviews before they buy, well with products aiming to sell out on pre-order no real chance to wait for a real review before you buy



you mention selling out but where do codices sell out? those tend to be what online reviews focus on

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

an army book of a popular faction selling out is not unusual, and without the possibility of buying a non-printed version this is a problem now (last edition it was different, printed book sold out, just by the digital version, but this option does not exist any more)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/25 08:23:48


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 kodos wrote:
an army book of a popular faction selling out is not unusual, and without the possibility of buying a non-printed version this is a problem now (last edition it was different, printed book sold out, just by the digital version, but this option does not exist any more)


yeah the lack of a digtal option is annoying. I was just thinking of that myself given this months white dwarf has been delayed in north America

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





BrianDavion wrote:
I think suggesting anyone who doesn't hate GW with a firey passion....... well giving them money, is brainwashed is pretty insulting.


I'd say I agree with that but then it is equally bad for someone to not support everything GW does and be called a frothy salty super hater who just wants to scream and reeeee about all GW but doesn't have the right to have an opinion unless they spent so many monies buying from them to be allowed an opinion on them...oh and that they have no life, that too. I think both trains of thought are bad and they should be covered in GWs evil NDA. Save me James Workshop !
   
Made in gb
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






 kodos wrote:


And from what we heard, GW legal department is larger than their proofreading department



Big enough to survey every single video on youtube, instagram post etc etc etc by those within the community that have signed NDA's with the company as well as mercilessly hunting down every 'breach' of their IP as well? Whilst also, and importantly being financially beneficial to actually do this (i.e. the department saves them more money than it costs).

My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
Blog 
   
Made in us
Snord






drbored wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I think suggesting anyone who doesn't hate GW with a firey passion....... well giving them money, is brainwashed is pretty insulting.


As is being called a bootlicker, fanboy, and all the other dismissive ways that GW haters sling just because someone isn't upset about something. This is where we are.


I mean, to be fair, the negatrons are being called basement dwelling neckbeards, so I'm not sure either side is without its name calling.

I will say that I am surprised and impressed whenever anyone on either side of the argument can acknowledge their position being wrong or opening their view point up a bit, rather than just entrenching further.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
caladancid wrote:
Pointing out bad things in the hope they get better isn't being a troll, it isn't being a black knight, it isn't anything other than attempting to stop what is a clearly bad path.
I'm starting to believe that there really are a bunch of people here who have buried so much of their identity into GW products that the very thought of them doing something wrong chills them to the core, and thus they lash out at anyone suggesting otherwise.


That's true. What's also important to realise is there are also a bunch of people here who have buried so much of their identity into hating GW that the idea that the idea of them not actually having done the worst thing possible in any scenario is unfathomable.

Is this a real NDA? Probably.
Is it too over-reaching for someone working a supplier or contractor for GW? No.
Is it too over-reaching for someone getting review copies of GW stuff? Yes.
Was it the NDA most reviewers have been under the past year? No, some have confirmed it wasn't, and then there's the fact that people who get GW product have put out negative reviews.
Could it be the NDA GW wants to use for reviewers going forwards? Possibly. That's the unknown at the moment. Thought I would have expected *more* uproar if that were the case from, y'know, actual reviewers. They might be limited in what they could say but we'd have a seen at least a few people saying "I'm leaving GW's reviewer programme as the new terms are too overreaching". But they could have not sent them all out yet.

I think anyone jumping to conclusions on either side is making their conclusion too early.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
drbored wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I think suggesting anyone who doesn't hate GW with a firey passion....... well giving them money, is brainwashed is pretty insulting.


As is being called a bootlicker, fanboy, and all the other dismissive ways that GW haters sling just because someone isn't upset about something. This is where we are.


I mean, to be fair, the negatrons are being called basement dwelling neckbeards, so I'm not sure either side is without its name calling.


You forgot "angry entitled manchildren"

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

BrianDavion wrote:
I think suggesting anyone who doesn't hate GW with a firey passion....... well giving them money, is brainwashed is pretty insulting.


The fact that your assumption that criticism equates hating something with a fiery passion is actually a good example of exactly the sort of thought pattern that people who have been heavily indoctrinated actually exhibit, as a defense mechanism when confronted by something that contradicts what they've been conditioned to believe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Big enough to survey every single video on youtube, instagram post etc etc etc by those within the community that have signed NDA's with the company as well as mercilessly hunting down every 'breach' of their IP as well? Whilst also, and importantly being financially beneficial to actually do this (i.e. the department saves them more money than it costs).


Well, they are hiring more people, so if they're not now, they soon will be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CMLR wrote:
Can I have an actual lawyer, specialized on this area, on this forum to actually explain to explain us in common language what does this actually mean?

I'm not a legal man (wait what?) so I'll reserve myself from looking stupid on the internet.


For exactly this, watch the Video in the original post in this thread.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/25 13:53:41



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
drbored wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I think suggesting anyone who doesn't hate GW with a firey passion....... well giving them money, is brainwashed is pretty insulting.


As is being called a bootlicker, fanboy, and all the other dismissive ways that GW haters sling just because someone isn't upset about something. This is where we are.


I mean, to be fair, the negatrons are being called basement dwelling neckbeards, so I'm not sure either side is without its name calling.

I will say that I am surprised and impressed whenever anyone on either side of the argument can acknowledge their position being wrong or opening their view point up a bit, rather than just entrenching further.


The name slinging is something we could do without, its the internet I know, lots of keyboard champs I guess.

But yes theres like a polarised mentality that I dont get! It becomes hard to discuss anything on a NORMAL level with this type of arguments( I dont even think its an argument its just internet trash talk).

I also find really bizarre a certain crowd asking for this topic to be closed, not debate this, theres nothing to talk about here... on a debate forum... Its even more ridiculous when they are the ones bumping the thread with that sort of post.

Until people realise that GW doesn't need defending crusaders and GW doesn't need the Spanish inquisition then no one will move an inch. Its tabletop game for god sake!
The real victims here are people that just want to debate a subject for what the subject actually is.

I particularly dont like legal debates but well GW opened that back door again.

   
Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




 NAVARRO wrote:
 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
drbored wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I think suggesting anyone who doesn't hate GW with a firey passion....... well giving them money, is brainwashed is pretty insulting.


As is being called a bootlicker, fanboy, and all the other dismissive ways that GW haters sling just because someone isn't upset about something. This is where we are.


I mean, to be fair, the negatrons are being called basement dwelling neckbeards, so I'm not sure either side is without its name calling.

I will say that I am surprised and impressed whenever anyone on either side of the argument can acknowledge their position being wrong or opening their view point up a bit, rather than just entrenching further.


The name slinging is something we could do without, its the internet I know, lots of keyboard champs I guess.

But yes theres like a polarised mentality that I dont get! It becomes hard to discuss anything on a NORMAL level with this type of arguments( I dont even think its an argument its just internet trash talk).

I also find really bizarre a certain crowd asking for this topic to be closed, not debate this, theres nothing to talk about here... on a debate forum... Its even more ridiculous when they are the ones bumping the thread with that sort of post.

Until people realise that GW doesn't need defending crusaders and GW doesn't need the Spanish inquisition then no one will move an inch. Its tabletop game for god sake!
The real victims here are people that just want to debate a subject for what the subject actually is.

I particularly dont like legal debates but well GW opened that back door again.


I think the reason people maybe want this closed is that this is a forum for discussing tabletop wargames and miniatures, not legal nitpicking of NDAs. Pages of armchair lawyers and random personal agendas don't really have much content in terms of news nor rumours about wargames.
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







Dudeface wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
drbored wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I think suggesting anyone who doesn't hate GW with a firey passion....... well giving them money, is brainwashed is pretty insulting.


As is being called a bootlicker, fanboy, and all the other dismissive ways that GW haters sling just because someone isn't upset about something. This is where we are.


I mean, to be fair, the negatrons are being called basement dwelling neckbeards, so I'm not sure either side is without its name calling.

I will say that I am surprised and impressed whenever anyone on either side of the argument can acknowledge their position being wrong or opening their view point up a bit, rather than just entrenching further.


The name slinging is something we could do without, its the internet I know, lots of keyboard champs I guess.

But yes theres like a polarised mentality that I dont get! It becomes hard to discuss anything on a NORMAL level with this type of arguments( I dont even think its an argument its just internet trash talk).

I also find really bizarre a certain crowd asking for this topic to be closed, not debate this, theres nothing to talk about here... on a debate forum... Its even more ridiculous when they are the ones bumping the thread with that sort of post.

Until people realise that GW doesn't need defending crusaders and GW doesn't need the Spanish inquisition then no one will move an inch. Its tabletop game for god sake!
The real victims here are people that just want to debate a subject for what the subject actually is.

I particularly dont like legal debates but well GW opened that back door again.


I think the reason people maybe want this closed is that this is a forum for discussing tabletop wargames and miniatures, not legal nitpicking of NDAs. Pages of armchair lawyers and random personal agendas don't really have much content in terms of news nor rumours about wargames.



Maybe, but that is the salt of life the diversity, different interests.
Like many I may not like these legal topics, but plenty seem to enjoy the debate of the legal implications on to competitors, reviewers etc... its still in the scope of news IMHO. Again debatable.
I avoid, on a public forum with thousands of topics about subjects that I like, to snipe and bump the topics that I dont like and ask for them to be closed down.

Whatever Dakka admins and mods do I will be ok with that, Im not forced to read and participate on all topics and even when GW had a strong influence on the public forums censorship I managed to linger.
I think this time around the internet is very different from say 10 years ago so we are going to see an all new avalanche of these topics. Everywhere not just here.

   
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Austria

so never any discussion about the companies behind those games and miniatures?

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

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 kodos wrote:
so never any discussion about the companies behind those games and miniatures?


There can be, but is it news or rumours at this point? It's more of point of interest for anyone wanting to debate it rather than N/R.
   
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Seneca Nation of Indians

Dudeface wrote:

There can be, but is it news or rumours at this point? It's more of point of interest for anyone wanting to debate it rather than N/R.


Well, considering the leak was only 4 hours old when the thread started, all of two days ago, I'd say it would still qualify as 'news' even if you don't find it particularly shocking.

And was a much, much newer when the first person demanded the thread be closed.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
 
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