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2022/05/24 17:53:39
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Jack Flask wrote: GaroRobe wrote:It’s strange that this is the first time we’ve seen the traitor guard medic (corpseman) shown off and it’s tucked away in an article about the ogryn
He didn’t even appear in the traitor guard lineup
They also mention a Traitor Commsman so fingers crossed we get a full variety like Veteran Guard.
Maybe the images they showed off were the generic troop version that they also used when taking pictures for the CSM dex rather than the KT specialists?
You can see the comms man as well
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2022/05/24 19:42:07
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Terrifying Doombull
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tauist wrote:Voss wrote: cole1114 wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:Oh I know what it does, but the choice between expanding the Intercessor kit and giving it the missing Sergeant weapons vs some more tacti-cool crap for Infiltrators/Incursors, I know what I'd pick.
Honestly I think they're probably scared to give intercessors more choices at this point. The second they get special/heavy weapons, that's gonna be it for tacticals. And they know the fans know it.
That's the solution to the bloated codex though. Give intercessors (& incursors & infiltrators) gear and merge the datasheets. Players can pick old style or new style armor and call it a day, no stress about which is better and what's going to be outdated when. No more 40+ bolters, no more super-extra-minor variant (+1 to strength or damage or AP) to various other guns. That has a place on Necromunda scale games, but not 40k scale games.
They're remaking mk6 marines and talking openly about the interchangeability between systems for the various vehicles (Deimos rhino and Sicaran). They missed the boat on going primaris-only, it'd be really dumb to do it now, rather than really shoot HH sales into the stratosphere.
That's never going to happen now I think. Firstborn Marines have been established in the lore as a scant resource, while Primaris is more like how Firstborn were before the Heresy - There's practically an unlimited amount of them, even their force organization is more like how the Legions were than how Firstborn are in M41. I think GW will want to keep this distinction alive.
...the distinction that they're more like Heresy legions? And that will keep them from encouraging 40k sales of... Heresy legions?
I'm confused.
That's certainly an option I hadn't considered, though. Pure bolter squads (which is what these incursors/infiltrators and also intercessors are) and pure special weapons squads in both systems, and (again) everyone can just use whatever armor style they like and merge the datasheets. Bob can just throw out the codex astartes, pull a mea culpa and reorganize the legions.
(I'm also confused by the idea that there's a unlimited amount of Primaris (despite roughly sticking to chapter numbers), but GW numbers never make sense, so whatever to that).
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/24 19:43:57
Efficiency is the highest virtue. |
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2022/05/24 20:54:04
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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GaroRobe wrote: Jack Flask wrote: GaroRobe wrote:It’s strange that this is the first time we’ve seen the traitor guard medic (corpseman) shown off and it’s tucked away in an article about the ogryn
He didn’t even appear in the traitor guard lineup
They also mention a Traitor Commsman so fingers crossed we get a full variety like Veteran Guard.
Maybe the images they showed off were the generic troop version that they also used when taking pictures for the CSM dex rather than the KT specialists?
You can see the comms man as well
And a Traitor Enforcer.
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2022/05/24 21:34:32
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Fixture of Dakka
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: GaroRobe wrote: Jack Flask wrote: GaroRobe wrote:It’s strange that this is the first time we’ve seen the traitor guard medic (corpseman) shown off and it’s tucked away in an article about the ogryn
He didn’t even appear in the traitor guard lineup
They also mention a Traitor Commsman so fingers crossed we get a full variety like Veteran Guard.
Maybe the images they showed off were the generic troop version that they also used when taking pictures for the CSM dex rather than the KT specialists?
You can see the comms man as well
And a Traitor Enforcer.
Isn't that just what they're calling the Commissar, going by the Sunday article?
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2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG
My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote:This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote:You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling. - No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... |
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2022/05/24 21:44:13
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Dysartes wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: GaroRobe wrote: Jack Flask wrote: GaroRobe wrote:It’s strange that this is the first time we’ve seen the traitor guard medic (corpseman) shown off and it’s tucked away in an article about the ogryn
He didn’t even appear in the traitor guard lineup
They also mention a Traitor Commsman so fingers crossed we get a full variety like Veteran Guard.
Maybe the images they showed off were the generic troop version that they also used when taking pictures for the CSM dex rather than the KT specialists?
You can see the comms man as well
And a Traitor Enforcer.
Isn't that just what they're calling the Commissar, going by the Sunday article?
Yes, the Commissar is now an Enforcer.
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2022/05/25 12:19:04
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot
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Looks like a lot of special weapons are available, too. In the article I could spot a flamer and a melta, if the krieg Set is anything to go by than a grenade launcher should be included as well (plasma already previewed earlier). I'm a bit confused that no pistol+close combat weapon was shown yet, this was a prominent weapon option in Blackstone fortress. Only pure close combat was shown for now.
I'm definitely getting those traitor guardsmen, time to fully muster a blood pact force
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2022/05/26 14:12:35
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Terrifying Doombull
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/26/headshot-enemy-operatives-in-their-own-turn-with-kill-team-morochs-incursor-marksman/
Have another bolter variant:
stalker marksman bolt carbine
'Sniper carbine' makes my brain hurt, but I'm not gun expert enough to say its entirely wrong.
On the one hand, I hate it. KT is actually the place for this level of gun differentiation, but I hate that its going to add to the bolter Jenga tower in regular 40k as well.
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Efficiency is the highest virtue. |
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2022/05/26 14:20:40
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Haughty Harad Serpent Rider
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Ah, great, the team has Reivers as well!
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"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke |
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2022/05/26 14:42:16
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Voss wrote:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/26/headshot-enemy-operatives-in-their-own-turn-with-kill-team-morochs-incursor-marksman/ Have another bolter variant: stalker marksman bolt carbine 'Sniper carbine' makes my brain hurt, but I'm not gun expert enough to say its entirely wrong. On the one hand, I hate it. KT is actually the place for this level of gun differentiation, but I hate that its going to add to the bolter Jenga tower in regular 40k as well.
Marksman Bolt Carbines are already a thing on Infiltrators... "Stalker" is...eh. It's always been a weird one being alternately described as both a type of ammunition and a pattern of boltgun. I wish they'd solidify it being one or the other for a definitive answer but I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Or just make "Stalker Rounds" into a stratagem or a wargear upgrade for KT.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/26 14:44:28
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2022/05/26 14:54:28
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought
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Voss wrote:
'Sniper carbine' makes my brain hurt, but I'm not gun expert enough to say its entirely wrong.
Short version; “sniper” is a tactical role that usually gets special training and equipment while “carbine” is a general size class of gun somewhere between pistol and full rifle. They aren’t self-contradictory when used together (not like “bolt shotgun” anyway) but making a carbine accurate enough for sniper work is quite a feat of engineering.
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"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran |
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2022/05/26 15:07:10
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche
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Voss wrote:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/26/headshot-enemy-operatives-in-their-own-turn-with-kill-team-morochs-incursor-marksman/
Have another bolter variant:
stalker marksman bolt carbine
'Sniper carbine' makes my brain hurt, but I'm not gun expert enough to say its entirely wrong.
On the one hand, I hate it. KT is actually the place for this level of gun differentiation, but I hate that its going to add to the bolter Jenga tower in regular 40k as well.
With hard work and perseverance we can have 6 word bolter variants by 2030.
Looking forward to the Heavy Stalker Sniper Revolver Bolt Carbine
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2022/05/26 15:10:30
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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Voss wrote:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/26/headshot-enemy-operatives-in-their-own-turn-with-kill-team-morochs-incursor-marksman/
Have another bolter variant:
stalker marksman bolt carbine
On the one hand, I hate it. KT is actually the place for this level of gun differentiation, but I hate that its going to add to the bolter Jenga tower in regular 40k as well.
Not necessarily. This new KT member is (I think) supposed to represent the Marksmen Target-Tracker upgrade you get in the new Vanguard Spearhead army of renown for Incursor squads. That model still uses the occular bolt carbine stats for their weapon, but gives the squad a new keyword that a new strat keys off of. That's not to say SM 2.0 codex wont change things...
Voss wrote:
'Sniper carbine' makes my brain hurt, but I'm not gun expert enough to say its entirely wrong.
Well as a self-proclaimed gun expert, it's not wrong at all. Barrel length only buys you muzzle velocity (increases length of time bullet is "pushed" by propellant gases). That can increase your effective range, it doesn't inherently increase your accuracy. Real world example: The new(ish) M38 designated marksman rifle the USMC uses only has a 16.5" barrel, which is solidly in the carbine barrel length territory for the AR platform.
Of course, bolts are rocket powered, yada yada ya...
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2022/05/26 15:35:35
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Longtime Dakkanaut
London
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KillerAngel wrote:Real world example: The new(ish) M38 designated marksman rifle the USMC uses only has a 16.5" barrel, which is solidly in the carbine barrel length territory for the AR platform.
Of course, bolts are rocket powered, yada yada ya...
I read this as the USMC was getting bolt ammunition....
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2022/05/26 15:37:59
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Second Story Man
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it depends on the time frame it this makes sense or not
depending in the war, the Sniper had just a regular rifle with a scope, were everyone else used iron sights
go back to the napoelonic wars and the sniper rifle was much, much shorter than the regular musket but still more accurate
not the best picture, but a jaeger stutzen (rifled), jaeger carbine (smoothbore) and musket next to each other
a sniper carbine makes sense when you fight in areas were space is limited and you have to be mobile but you still want to pull off long range shots
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/26 15:40:05
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise |
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2022/05/26 16:15:48
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Longtime Dakkanaut
London
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Very small feather could have blown me down with such a rational design choice.
Plus of the team is underpowered a simple house rule fix would be the addition of an Eliminator.
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2022/05/26 16:17:59
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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The_Real_Chris wrote:KillerAngel wrote:Real world example: The new(ish) M38 designated marksman rifle the USMC uses only has a 16.5" barrel, which is solidly in the carbine barrel length territory for the AR platform.
Of course, bolts are rocket powered, yada yada ya...
I read this as the USMC was getting bolt ammunition....
Ha! Not as far fetched as you might think. There is already rocket assisted 155mm rounds, and they're working on a ramjet powered variant to increase efficiency. Miniaturize that and make it cost effective, and you might have something. Not sure how useful that something would be, but maybe you could squeeze 20in barrel muzzle velocities out of something like an 8inch barrel.
The closest analogue to the rocket round in concept (increased muzzle velocity for short barrels) would be the new three piece ammunition SIG invented and won the Army's new M4/M249 replacement contract with. 6.8x51 (277 Fury). Check it out, it uses a stainless steel base to increase pressure rating, and allows for thinner brass wall to reduce overall round weight.
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2022/05/26 17:24:20
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Voss wrote:'Sniper carbine' makes my brain hurt, but I'm not gun expert enough to say its entirely wrong.
And you'd be completely wrong because carbine is just a rifle with shortened barrel. So, any sniper rifle with short barrel would be effectively a carbine, having slightly shorter range but being lighter and easier to handle/aim.
Bolts are two stage. First charge kicks it up to speed, second (gyrojet) kicks in once it's in flight and is the 'rocket' part. That's the main difference between bolt carbine (aka ordinary bolter) and bolt rifle, more powerful first charge in the latter to give it greater range and penetration.
Wake me up when whatever clown writing phobos rules will finally get a clue and give them power weapon access. I mean, even scouts have them, despite not having power armour, you'd think the closest thing to an assault squad a primaris company has would have them too, but nooo, that would make too much sense and might accidentally sell some models
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2022/05/26 17:59:03
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Second Story Man
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no, the main disadvantage of a sniper carbine would not the shorter range but because of the shorter barrel you get a brighter muzzle flash (as not the whole powder burns down inside the barrel), so you would be less concealed/easier to spot
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Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise |
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2022/05/26 18:05:48
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Leader of the Sept
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It really an issue for bolters where every round has a rocket exhaust connecting the target to the firer
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Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 |
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2022/05/26 18:32:20
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought
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Flinty wrote:It really an issue for bolters where every round has a rocket exhaust connecting the target to the firer
Plenty of fuel/oxidiser combinations leave no visible trail.
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"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran |
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2022/05/26 19:01:12
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Irbis wrote:Voss wrote:'Sniper carbine' makes my brain hurt, but I'm not gun expert enough to say its entirely wrong.
And you'd be completely wrong because carbine is just a rifle with shortened barrel. So, any sniper rifle with short barrel would be effectively a carbine, having slightly shorter range but being lighter and easier to handle/aim.
Bolts are two stage. First charge kicks it up to speed, second (gyrojet) kicks in once it's in flight and is the 'rocket' part. That's the main difference between bolt carbine (aka ordinary bolter) and bolt rifle, more powerful first charge in the latter to give it greater range and penetration.
Wake me up when whatever clown writing phobos rules will finally get a clue and give them power weapon access. I mean, even scouts have them, despite not having power armour, you'd think the closest thing to an assault squad a primaris company has would have them too, but nooo, that would make too much sense and might accidentally sell some models
The Sergeant for Reivers definitely needs Power Weapon access, and Reivers just need something like +1 to wound infantry or similar.
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2022/05/27 10:53:44
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
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Having a Phobos kill team I thought the obvious choice would be to include an eliminator as the sniper specialist, not for GW! if we can have reivers which aren't in the kit why not eliminators?
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-My cults stuff-
=====Begin Dakka Geek Code=====
DC:70+S++G+MB+I++Pw40k87-D++A++++/wWD090R+T(Pic)DM+
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2022/05/27 11:56:48
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Wait for the "elite" expansion for Eliminator.
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2022/05/27 22:36:23
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Dakka Veteran
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Traitor Guard sprues from land of tomorrow (spoilered for size):
I still think they look worse than monopose models from Blackstone Fortress but at least there is good amount of bits to choose from. I count around 40 heads (including the "Specialist" sprue).
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That place is the harsh dark future far left with only war left. |
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2022/05/27 22:50:58
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Germany
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jullevi wrote:Traitor Guard sprues from land of tomorrow (spoilered for size):
I still think they look worse than monopose models from Blackstone Fortress but at least there is good amount of bits to choose from. I count around 40 heads (including the "Specialist" sprue).
I count;
14 Lasguns
4 various CCWs
Big Ol' Mace
Shotgun
Sniper Rifle
Plasma Gun
Melta Gun
Bolter
Flamer
Grenade Launcher
Bolt Pistol
Plasma Pistol
Laspistol
Power Axe
Power Sword.
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"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado |
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2022/05/27 23:06:35
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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I'm starting to think these Traitor Guardsmen might have been what The Leak List had as a "new Cadian kit".
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2022/05/27 23:10:36
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Terrifying Doombull
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Hmm. Standard array of guard weapons. Melta, plasma, flamer, grenade launcher and what I think is a sniper rifle (scoped, second from the bottom on the second sprue) and bolter, plasma & bolt pistol and powersword or chainsword for the sergeant.
What's probably a vox (2nd backpack on the first sprue) and then extra CC stuff because chaos.
I'm wondering how compatible all this is with other kits, including krieg, cadians and the chaos cultists.
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Efficiency is the highest virtue. |
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2022/05/27 23:22:10
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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Kanluwen wrote:I'm starting to think these Traitor Guardsmen might have been what The Leak List had as a "new Cadian kit".
Nah. Remember, the leaker listed both Traitor Guardsmen and the New Cadians separately. Settle down Kan.
But whoah! That's a lot of options. You're definitely going to be able to find some heads that you want to use.
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2022/05/27 23:24:53
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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It is a sniper rifle, Voss!
Worth mentioning though that some of the things you're labeling as Sergeant options? They might be for a 2nd in command, ala the Krieg list's "Confidant".
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2022/05/27 23:25:49
Subject: Kill Team 2021 news & rumours
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Gadzilla666 wrote: Kanluwen wrote:I'm starting to think these Traitor Guardsmen might have been what The Leak List had as a "new Cadian kit".
Nah. Remember, the leaker listed both Traitor Guardsmen and the New Cadians separately. Settle down Kan.
But whoah! That's a lot of options. You're definitely going to be able to find some heads that you want to use.
To be perfectly honest I think most of the main regiments could get just a kit like this and then it would be job done. Especially with like 40 heads and other spares in the set would make conversions of other kits really easy
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