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I think the answer is yes, because of the FAQ Question right here...

Q. If a boyz mob exchanges sluggas and choppas with shootas, can a Nob take a power klaw or a big choppas?

A. You may upgrade the Nob to have a big choppa or power klaw before you choose to upgrade the mob to have shootas, in which case the Nob is not affected by the mob's weapon swap (as he no longer has a choppa to swap), does not receive a shoota and keeps his slugga and power klaw/big choppa instead.

What this FAQ question shows me is that there is an order of opperations to applying unit upgrades. My point of concern is in the way the Nob in the boyz squad example is purchased...

Pg. 100, Orks Codex "One boy may be upgraded to Nob..."

Vs the Nob squad...

Pg. 98, Orks Codex "One Nob may be a painboy..."

It doesn't seem to make much of a difference, but I'm just not sure. My purposed order of opperations for getting a painboy with a WAAAGH!! Banna is as follows.
1. Buy a nobs squad of five nobs
2. Buy warbikes for the nobs
3. Buy a Waaagh!! Banna and give it to Nob Cletus
4. Allow Nob Cletus to be a painboy

Is this correct?

Well, to my knowledge, a Nob is like an Apothecary, its like a whole different thing after you upgrade it, its no longer just a Nob, its a Painboy. To my knowledge, the entry says you can give one Nob a Waaagh Banner, I don't think so just because the Painboy isn't a Nob anymore, he's a painboy =P.

I see where you're getting this, but I'd have to agree with EzeKK.
In the case of the PK w/ shoota boyz, you chose to upgrade one of them to a nob THEN give him upgrades that he is now entitled to take. In this case, you're trying to give him upgrades THEN turn him into a painboy.
I'm by no means 100% on this one, but I don't think you can do that. I think you have the upgrade the model and then choose gear and such that he is enabled to take.
My only real basis for this is that in any other situation I can think of, you upgrade the model and then do the gear, like with turning a Flash Git into a painboy, you don't pay for snazzgun upgrades for the painboy, he doesn't have one.

Hmm, yes, I think you're probably right. That's a shame... thanks for your help!

No, a Painboy cannot buy equipment that "Nobz" may take, as he is not a Nob, he is a Painboy.

Yea, the rules are clear that the Nob is not upgraded to a painboy but 'may be' a painboy. I read this as an exchange instead of an upgrade.

Good question though.

EzeKK wrote:Well, to my knowledge, a Nob is like an Apothecary, its like a whole different thing after you upgrade it, its no longer just a Nob, its a Painboy. To my knowledge, the entry says you can give one Nob a Waaagh Banner, I don't think so just because the Painboy isn't a Nob anymore, he's a painboy =P.

This Statement Is A Truth And Not A Truth
You see, for nob bikers, you can still give them a painboy, and he will be on a bike for 25 points more, so i see here that the painboy can be given the same options as the nobs (Painboy with Power klaw, Drool)
But im not GW, and i don't make the rules.

SonsOfLoki wrote:

EzeKK wrote:Well, to my knowledge, a Nob is like an Apothecary, its like a whole different thing after you upgrade it, its no longer just a Nob, its a Painboy. To my knowledge, the entry says you can give one Nob a Waaagh Banner, I don't think so just because the Painboy isn't a Nob anymore, he's a painboy =P.

This Statement Is A Truth And Not A Truth
You see, for nob bikers, you can still give them a painboy, and he will be on a bike for 25 points more, so i see here that the painboy can be given the same options as the nobs (Painboy with Power klaw, Drool)
But im not GW, and i don't make the rules.

I see where you are going with this, but under the options, you have 2 wordings one is "The entire mob may..." and the other is "Any Nob may..."

The items that "The entire mob may..." purchase are Stikkbombz and (I know the name may mislead us) Nob Bikers.

And the Waaagh banner is of course one that is under the heading "Any Nob may..."

Granted I guess we have to wrap our minds around the idea that we first upgrade our mob to Nob Bikers, and then we make a "Nob" Biker into a "painboy" Biker because one Nob may be a painboy...I guess. Or we just say if the rule says the whole mob gets bikes, then that is good enough for me.

SonsOfLoki wrote:

EzeKK wrote:Well, to my knowledge, a Nob is like an Apothecary, its like a whole different thing after you upgrade it, its no longer just a Nob, its a Painboy. To my knowledge, the entry says you can give one Nob a Waaagh Banner, I don't think so just because the Painboy isn't a Nob anymore, he's a painboy =P.

This Statement Is A Truth And Not A Truth
You see, for nob bikers, you can still give them a painboy, and he will be on a bike for 25 points more, so i see here that the painboy can be given the same options as the nobs (Painboy with Power klaw, Drool)
But im not GW, and i don't make the rules.

Sorry mate, but you are wrong. The wording is different.


It says "The Entire Mob may be Upgraded to Nob Bikers". A Nob Biker is Still a Nob, so One Nob Biker May be a Painboy Biker.

Compare this to the Option for the Power Klaw, that says "Any Nob may replace".

A Painboy is Still not a Nob, so you cannot give him any wargear that only Nobz may take.

I don't actually care whether it's 'legal' raw or rai, but i'd like to know why on earth you would WANT to do this?
You could be making 2 models 'unique' within the unit for the exact same pointcost.

9 nobs + 1 painboy(with banner)
or
8 nobs + 1 nob(with banner) + 1 painboy

QFT
Remember that Dakka users must always have some stupid rules to deal with.

nostromo wrote:I don't actually care whether it's 'legal' raw or rai, but i'd like to know why on earth you would WANT to do this?
You could be making 2 models 'unique' within the unit for the exact same pointcost.

That's exactly why I wanted to do this. The unit I was planning on running would be 2 nob bikers with claws, two nob bikers with 'uge choppas, and a painboy with a waaagh banna. The reason is that there's a lot of younger players at my local GW, and this is the unit of bikers I use to play against them. For TFG, I use the ten nob unit with every model being unique.

I find that using the unit in this way puts it closer to on par with less optimal choices that my opponents tend to take. I'd rather face armies that my friends enjoyed putting together than armies that my friends made just to stop the nob bikers of doom.