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Made in ca
Swift Swooping Hawk





Calgary, AB

The following is an attempt to separate some disparate ideas which are discussed on these forums quite frequently.

Since this is a tough thing to categorize, I'll be breaking it down by three categories: Descriptors, At Their Best and At Their Worst. (At Their Worst can be considered TFG) Please remember that these are the extreme ends of the spectrum, and gamers can fall anywhere in between these categories. Or can mix and match. However, these are guidelines that might help with generic grouping.

"Power Gamer" - (AKA WAAC, Cheesy, Beardy)

Descriptor: Players who, it is generally stated, take the most enjoyment from the gaming aspect of the hobby. They tend to do their best in every game they play, both during the match and while preparing for a match. It is frequent to see them building army lists to their fullest competitive ability.

At their Best: These players are passionate about the game and the hobby, and proceed to play games with excellent sportsmanship. When winning they are gracious and helpful, and when they lose, they grin and bear it, and learn from their mistakes. Their lists are tested to their own ideas and tactical strengths, and are hard as nails. They know all of the rules of the game, and explain things to their opponent - whether it helps them or not.

At their Worst: You might come across players who have found 'hard' lists on the internet, with the aim of winning every game, which falls under this category. These players might become overbearing about their victory, and move forward with the aim of humiliating the other player as well as simply winning the match. Often their methods can be called unscrupulous.

"Fluff Gamer"

Descriptor: Players who delve into the lore, history, and neat facts about the armies they play with and against. Often, their armies are built around a story or character idea. Though they enjoy the fluff aspect of the game the most, these players of course use their armies on the tabletop, and enjoy playing.

At their Best: These gamers can be imaginative and knowledgeable. They can be very canny generals, and often play strong games with highly unconventional themes. Often these fluff-based armies will have strong modelling to reflect the uniform ideas behind them. These players can be gracious in victory and defeat, and enjoy playing with the list they brought, win or lose.

At their Worst: These gamers can be very high-minded, believing that their way is the only way to play. You might come across these gamers degrading the play style of other gamers, especially those who defeated their armies on the table. They can come across as whiny and overbearing, and can be frustratingly high-minded about their playstyle.

"Hobbyist Gamer"

Descriptor: Players who mainly paint and model their armies, and find the most enjoyment out of some quality time with their brushes. Often their armies will look spectacular. You will see them with both thematic and/or hard lists, sometimes simply built around models that they had interesting ideas on how to paint/convert.

At their Best: These gamers can be a joy to play against, fielding a competitive and gorgeously painted list with the intention of having a good time. They can have an excellent grasp of the rules, and enjoy playing whether they win or lose. In any case, you'll have the privilege of playing a beautiful army.

At their Worst: These gamers might not have the best grasp of the rules or the fluff, and might be confused when you question them. They can be quite immature when playing, and might refuse outright to play another player who is using 'stand-ins' or fielding a unit that isn't quite painted yet.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, did any of that sounds like you? Did any comments hit awfully close to home?

Of course they did!

Every person is a mixture of those grand, overreaching, utterly ridiculous 'archetypes' of gamers. It's impossible to claim that someone is entirely one thing or entirely another. Everyone enjoys different parts of the hobby and it's entirely their right!

But, perhaps, I've made it a little easier to understand what is meant when someone cries 'Power Gamer' or 'Fluff Nazi', and maybe you'll notice a little from the "Best" column next time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/27 03:10:33


The Battle Report Master wrote:i had a freind come round a few weeks ago to have a 40k apocalpocalpse game i was guards men he was space maines.... my first turn was 4 bonbaonbardlements... jacobs turn to he didnt have one i phased out.
This space for rent, contact Gwar! for rights to this space.
Tantras wrote: Logically speaking, that makes perfect sense and I understand and agree entirely... but is it RAW?
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

Well, I like those descriptions, they work well.

The problem is that we're still no closer to determining what powergaming behavior is good, and what is bad.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in ca
Swift Swooping Hawk





Calgary, AB

Oh, you wanted moral quantifiers?

Feth that.

The Battle Report Master wrote:i had a freind come round a few weeks ago to have a 40k apocalpocalpse game i was guards men he was space maines.... my first turn was 4 bonbaonbardlements... jacobs turn to he didnt have one i phased out.
This space for rent, contact Gwar! for rights to this space.
Tantras wrote: Logically speaking, that makes perfect sense and I understand and agree entirely... but is it RAW?
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

Orkestra wrote:Oh, you wanted moral quantifiers?

Feth that.


Hehehe, that's always the rub, isn't it? I mean, we're pretty comfortable with some broad rulings, but the devil is in the details.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in us
Angry Blood Angel Assault marine





Bella Napoli

The funny part about it to me is that I find parts of your descriptors from all three categories fit me.

*I am competitive, and I always try my darnedest to win every game that I play in.

*I love to read and research the history of the 40k "world" and all the details.

*I hate to see and play against unpainted armies and proxies (Although I don't mind someone wanting to "try it out" before they buy it. This is an expensive hobby!).

I imagine that most of us don't fit exclusively in one camp or the other.


pitchedbattle.blogspot.com  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Exclusively? No.

Primarily? Probably.

As in:

I'm:
- mostly Hobby
- some Power
- a little Fluff

   
Made in ca
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers






Well I kind of moved near Toronto, actually.

WAAC is bad? I thought this was a game.

Dakka Articles: Eldar Tactica | In Defence of Starcannons (math) | Ork Takktika Quick Tips
taco online: WoW PvP
ur hax are nubz 
   
Made in us
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





Akron, Ohio

Tacobake wrote:WAAC is bad? I thought this was a game.

WAAC is generally meant more for the rules lawyering, bad sportsmanship, etc type people, not just people that like to play competatively.

DR:90S+G++MB+I+Pw40k07++D++A++/eWD-R+++T(Ot)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Loud-Voiced Agitator



San Diego

Good descriptors Orkestra. Thanks for taking the time. Not that anyone will care

Bolter Fire is my worst nightmare  
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







Orkestra wrote:The following is an attempt to separate some disparate ideas which are discussed on these forums quite frequently.

Since this is a tough thing to categorize, I'll be breaking it down by three categories: Descriptors, At Their Best and At Their Worst. (At Their Worst can be considered TFG) Please remember that these are the extreme ends of the spectrum, and gamers can fall anywhere in between these categories. Or can mix and match. However, these are guidelines that might help with generic grouping.

"Power Gamer" - (AKA WAAC, Cheesy, Beardy)

Descriptor: Players who, it is generally stated, take the most enjoyment from the gaming aspect of the hobby. They tend to do their best in every game they play, both during the match and while preparing for a match. It is frequent to see them building army lists to their fullest competitive ability.

At their Best: These players are passionate about the game and the hobby, and proceed to play games with excellent sportsmanship. When winning they are gracious and helpful, and when they lose, they grin and bear it, and learn from their mistakes. Their lists are tested to their own ideas and tactical strengths, and are hard as nails. They know all of the rules of the game, and explain things to their opponent - whether it helps them or not.

At their Worst: You might come across players who have found 'hard' lists on the internet, with the aim of winning every game, which falls under this category. These players might become overbearing about their victory, and move forward with the aim of humiliating the other player as well as simply winning the match. Often their methods can be called unscrupulous.

"Fluff Gamer"

Descriptor: Players who delve into the lore, history, and neat facts about the armies they play with and against. Often, their armies are built around a story or character idea. Though they enjoy the fluff aspect of the game the most, these players of course use their armies on the tabletop, and enjoy playing.

At their Best: These gamers can be imaginative and knowledgeable. They can be very canny generals, and often play strong games with highly unconventional themes. Often these fluff-based armies will have strong modelling to reflect the uniform ideas behind them. These players can be gracious in victory and defeat, and enjoy playing with the list they brought, win or lose.

At their Worst: These gamers can be very high-minded, believing that their way is the only way to play. You might come across these gamers degrading the play style of other gamers, especially those who defeated their armies on the table. They can come across as whiny and overbearing, and can be frustratingly high-minded about their playstyle.

"Hobbyist Gamer"

Descriptor: Players who mainly paint and model their armies, and find the most enjoyment out of some quality time with their brushes. Often their armies will look spectacular. You will see them with both thematic and/or hard lists, sometimes simply built around models that they had interesting ideas on how to paint/convert.

At their Best: These gamers can be a joy to play against, fielding a competitive and gorgeously painted list with the intention of having a good time. They can have an excellent grasp of the rules, and enjoy playing whether they win or lose. In any case, you'll have the privilege of playing a beautiful army.

At their Worst: These gamers might not have the best grasp of the rules or the fluff, and might be confused when you question them. They can be quite immature when playing, and might refuse outright to play another player who is using 'stand-ins' or fielding a unit that isn't quite painted yet.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, did any of that sounds like you? Did any comments hit awfully close to home?

Of course they did!

Every person is a mixture of those grand, overreaching, utterly ridiculous 'archetypes' of gamers. It's impossible to claim that someone is entirely one thing or entirely another. Everyone enjoys different parts of the hobby and it's entirely their right!

But, perhaps, I've made it a little easier to understand what is meant when someone cries 'Power Gamer' or 'Fluff Nazi', and maybe you'll notice a little from the "Best" column next time.


You should read this:

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr258

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr258

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

I think those are fairly apt descriptions.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I think that I fit a fourth category, and someone posted something similar to this previously. I think it's somewhere between the WAAC and the Fluff gamer.

"The Semi-Competitive Gamer"

Description: This is the gamer that typically picks an army for its aesthetics or fluff. They typically don't start whatever the newest and best army is. They usually have several armies in various stages of progress. This type of player generally tries to build the most competitive list they can for an army that they like, but won't start an army they don't like just for a super-build.

Pros: This gamer can win a fair number of games at any tourney and will generally have a good understanding of the rules and tactics, and typically fields a well painted army (although it is often unlikely to win any painting awards).

Cons: This gamer can be frustrated by the imbalance between codexes. They don't like Codex Creep, and may look down on people who pick up the latest and greatest army. This gamer can come in near the top of a tourney, but is often beaten in the last few rounds by more powerful builds.

Anyway, I think this is me. I can usually do alright in a tourney, but I don't pick an army based on how powerful it is, I pick the armies that I like, and try to just build the best list that I can. Being partway between the WAAC and Fluff gamer, you have the potential good of both, but also the potential con of both.

In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






on board Terminus Est

Very interesting. To a certain extent it sums up everything in a nutshell. Thanks for taking the time to post this. I think there is also another type of Gamer which I dub the comp onion. If they face a list they cannot beat they look for a way to ding it's comp and vehemently complain about in an attempt to convince other gamers to shun this list that they cannot beat Hoping that their opponent will cave in from peer pressure and stop fielding the list. You see these tirades and diatribes on local forums as when presented In regional and national forums they are attacked for what they are... Comp Onions. I have seen these types of attacks many times.

G

ALL HAIL SANGUINIUS! No one can beat my Wu Tang style!

http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com <- My 40k Blog! BA Tactics & Strategies!
 
   
Made in au
Crazed Zealot






I like it...now i know where i stand in the hobby (no sarcasm intended)...

'When in trouble or in Doubt run in circles Scream and Shout'

4000pts
3000pts
4000pts 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







I'm more of a Timmy/Johnny combination, myself.

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in gb
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime







In Magic, I am A Johnny. I love Combo Decks and have no real desire to always win, nor do I like big Powerful Splashy Cards.

in 40k I am the Fluff gamer at his best (it's true, really, I am not TFG despite what you all think )

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