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Shotgun wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:


The previous book's 5 model Fire Point made an explicit note that most of the models firing from within the Fire Point were just firing the Lasguns that were hull mounted.

So, before you were basically firing Lasguns and whatever other weapons you had in the squad(a Weapons Team, Plasma Guns, whatever) for a maximum of 5 models shooting out of the top hatch. That was great if you did something like a Veteran list, where you could fire a Weapons Team and 3x Specials.

Now? Now you have a bit more firepower coming from full squads of basic infantry. An Infantry Squad with a Heavy Weapon and a Special Weapon can have those two fire out of the top hatch(Heavy Weapons Teams count as a single model firing for the purposes of this), while the remaining 8 models can choose to have 6 fire the 2 different Lasgun Arrays. Each Lasgun Array can choose to fire at a different target to the Chimera or each other, the only mandate is that all of the Lasguns from a single array(Right or Left Lasgun Array) have to be fired at the same target.

So basically my Vet list is back to fubar'd. as the firepoints drop to 2?

If you strictly relied on Vet spam firing specials from Chimeras, then yes it did get fubar'd.

It would have been fubar'd anyways though, since tanks tend to be garbage this edition.

What book/FAQ did this show up in?

Codex: Astra Militarum. It's the latest Imperial Guard book.

How does this increase fire power? Lasgun Arrays are left and right. The hull heavy is forward. They split fire into potentially multiple useless targets when at least the 5 firepoint system could have had the left or right array focusing at the same place the other array was shooting at?

The 5 fire point system would have meant that all of the shots from the hatch would have had to been at the same, single target.

Now a 10 man squad consisting of a Heavy Weapons Team, a Special Weapons Squad, and 6 Lasgun armed models plus a Sergeant with a Laspistol can fire:
A shot from the Heavy Weapons Team and Special Weapon at the same target
3 shots from the Left Lasgun Array at a target(if any) within their firing arc.
3 shots from the Right Lasgun Array at a target(if any) within their firing arc.

That's in addition to the hull mount firing at something within its firing arc and the turret firing at something it can hit.

Before you had the hull mount, the turret, and then 5 models shooting at the same target.

Khadorstompy wrote:
Question: How do the Jokaero upgrades work now that they are their own unit....Are they ICs? Cause if you can stick them in different factions now...

Checked in the book when I read it at the GW shop. They're not IC. Thus they're only useful when taken with the Inquisition formation that makes them in the same unit with the other choices.

The Adepta Sororitas list is indeed something with very few changes and without Saint Celestine. There are interesting things to do with them, though (Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders in separate Elite choices without the obligatory priest? Yes please!). Their only true "loss" is Celestine herself.

Won't mourn the Servo-Skulls. It really was a thing of the past and complete nonsense to allow in V7 games.

The most important question is this: Can we still buy Searchlights for 1pt each on the Sororitas Rhinos in order to make even numbers??????? The old Rhinos and Razorbacks could.

sizzlebutt666 wrote:
The most important question is this: Can we still buy Searchlights for 1pt each on the Sororitas Rhinos in order to make even numbers??????? The old Rhinos and Razorbacks could.

The leaked data sheet shows the Immolator with one as stock - likely the Rhino is the same - as before.

Why are people talking about the Death Cults being able to take a Rhino/ Immolator as new - they always could.

If AS Command Squads are now Elite - doesn;t that make Celestain squads even worse

 Sarouan wrote:

Khadorstompy wrote:
Question: How do the Jokaero upgrades work now that they are their own unit....Are they ICs? Cause if you can stick them in different factions now...

Checked in the book when I read it at the GW shop. They're not IC. Thus they're only useful when taken with the Inquisition formation that makes them in the same unit with the other choices.

The Adepta Sororitas list is indeed something with very few changes and without Saint Celestine. There are interesting things to do with them, though (Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders in separate Elite choices without the obligatory priest? Yes please!). Their only true "loss" is Celestine herself.

Won't mourn the Servo-Skulls. It really was a thing of the past and complete nonsense to allow in V7 games.

Thank you. Too bad...

I know astropaths are now ICs.. are there any other units that are ICs now that weren't before? Might be cool for some allied shenanigans.

Astropaths were Characters before because the only way to take them was as part of an IG Company Command Squad.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Why are people talking about the Death Cults being able to take a Rhino/ Immolator as new - they always could.

If AS Command Squads are now Elite - doesn;t that make Celestain squads even worse

Because you can take 2 DCA or 2 Arcos and get an immo. Before it was Priest, 3 Arcos and then an immo.

 pretre wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Why are people talking about the Death Cults being able to take a Rhino/ Immolator as new - they always could.

If AS Command Squads are now Elite - doesn;t that make Celestain squads even worse

Because you can take 2 DCA or 2 Arcos and get an immo. Before it was Priest, 3 Arcos and then an immo.

Ah right -

Looking at the old codex stats the Celestains seem pretty awful when compared to the Command sqaud if both are now elite unless there are any changes? The Command Squad is cheaper with far more options and even arugably a better AOF?

Both their AOF are pretty cruddy.

 Sarouan wrote:

Khadorstompy wrote:
Question: How do the Jokaero upgrades work now that they are their own unit....Are they ICs? Cause if you can stick them in different factions now...

Checked in the book when I read it at the GW shop. They're not IC. Thus they're only useful when taken with the Inquisition formation that makes them in the same unit with the other choices.

The Adepta Sororitas list is indeed something with very few changes and without Saint Celestine. There are interesting things to do with them, though (Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders in separate Elite choices without the obligatory priest? Yes please!). Their only true "loss" is Celestine herself.

Won't mourn the Servo-Skulls. It really was a thing of the past and complete nonsense to allow in V7 games.

How were servo skulls "a thing of the past" ?

Celestians can get to a bigger squad size. That is the only thing they can really do that may be considered beneficial as opposed to the command squad, though it is playstyle dependent whether that matters.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Astropaths were Characters before because the only way to take them was as part of an IG Company Command Squad.

They are now a pay 25 points get a lv 1 psyker in this squad option for all imperial armies ; )

Lets praise or new daemon overlords


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On a more serious note we can now field a complete rogue trader RPG army without going unbound this book is great

 Sarouan wrote:

Khadorstompy wrote:
Question: How do the Jokaero upgrades work now that they are their own unit....Are they ICs? Cause if you can stick them in different factions now...

Checked in the book when I read it at the GW shop. They're not IC. Thus they're only useful when taken with the Inquisition formation that makes them in the same unit with the other choices.

The Adepta Sororitas list is indeed something with very few changes and without Saint Celestine. There are interesting things to do with them, though (Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders in separate Elite choices without the obligatory priest? Yes please!). Their only true "loss" is Celestine herself.

Won't mourn the Servo-Skulls. It really was a thing of the past and complete nonsense to allow in V7 games.

Huh interesting. Given that a "Unit" of Acolytes is just 1 model. You could take an Inquisitor with a single Acolyte, and couple of Jokaero to buff a Deathwatch, Adepta Sororitas, or GK Termi squad.

That could be rather nasty considering the Inquisitor gets a free Warlord trait on top of the buffs the Jokaero and Priest can give... Also lets Karamazov join a unit which i don't think he could previously do.

I was really excited to start then disappointed but now I'm head back toward excited again. There do seem to be allot of possibilities with this book that I didn't see at first.

Hi. Question for you all that I can't see the answer to... can warlord traits stack?

For example I take a normal warlord and one of the new inq detachments, giving me 2 warlord traits. Let's say I roll on strategic and get 2 4's (Strategic Genius: +1 to Seize and re-roll reserves while Warlord is alive)

Does that give me +2? Or is the second trait wasted?

I'm not just theorising here... playing a tournament on Sunday where this codex is legal, and I could easily rejig my list to give me 2 or 3 warlord traits!

Khadorstompy wrote:
Huh interesting. Given that a "Unit" of Acolytes is just 1 model. You could take an Inquisitor with a single Acolyte, and couple of Jokaero to buff a Deathwatch, Adepta Sororitas, or GK Termi squad.

You don't combine with the DW, AS or GK squad.

Guys, just to chime in here ... I know everybody is planning on how they're going to spam their detachments to get tons of additional Warlord traits and Priests into every one of their squads and spam-floods of cheaper squads or Servitors or NDKs or whatever into their armies, but has anybody noticed that every page that's been leaked that talks about a Detachment refers to it as a "unique Detachment?"

DETACHMENTS:
"Each Faction included in this book is represented by a unique Detachment..."

ASTRA TELEPATHICA:
"Primaris Psykers, Astropaths, and Wyrdvane Psykers, and a unique Detachment making it easy to add these operatives to your army."

AERONAUTICA IMPERIALIS:
"Officer of the Fleet and Valkyries, and a unique Detachment..."

CULT MECHANICUS:
"Tech-Priest Enginseers and Servitors, and a unique Detachment making it easy..."

... and so on.

Has anyone else considered that these might actually be "Unique" (as in the BRB usage of the term "Unique", meaning ONLY ONE PER ARMY?) The intention of the special abilities certainly seems that way (I highly doubt GW wants us paying 100 points to get four extra rolls on the Strategic Warlord table every game.) If that ISN'T their intention then it's game design that's just itching to be abused.

I'm with most of the group on this. While I won't call this book a disaster, it's pretty epic fail from a writing standpoint. They completely bungled the faction/transport issues and made for a ton of arguments in the process. Hackneyed cut-and-paste job with no understanding of their own rules, conflicting or misleading writing, and no significant thought given to the possible repercussions. For factions that haven't seen attention for years, it's incredibly disappointing.

Although the blurb on the LE Canoness model and the Black Library response cited above are making me think that Warhammer Facebook was wrong, and this was truly NOT intended to replace the eDexes ... which gives me at least some small peace, because honestly Sisters and Inquisition were better off with their old books. Legion of the Damned as well.

There may be more we haven't seen that better explains or "fixes" these problems. Right now I'm doubting it. There better be an extensive FAQ coming pronto.

The term in the main rulebook is 'Unique Models', not simply 'Unique'.

Funny enough Canoness Veridyan is lacking the unique tag in the rules leaked so far.

 pretre wrote:

Khadorstompy wrote:
Huh interesting. Given that a "Unit" of Acolytes is just 1 model. You could take an Inquisitor with a single Acolyte, and couple of Jokaero to buff a Deathwatch, Adepta Sororitas, or GK Termi squad.

You don't combine with the DW, AS or GK squad.

Looks like you might be right. If so we are back into the "this book sucks" mode again.

Good catch, Zeke.

 VitruvianZeke wrote:
every page that's been leaked that talks about a Detachment refers to it as a "unique Detachment?"

.

Interesting. If that's what it says then yes, I would assume you can only take one of each.

However, that still leaves you with 2 warlord traits.

Will it blend? Wait... I mean... do they stack?

A new Sisters book has to be coming.

Silentz wrote:

 VitruvianZeke wrote:
every page that's been leaked that talks about a Detachment refers to it as a "unique Detachment?"

.

Interesting. If that's what it says then yes, I would assume you can only take one of each.

However, that still leaves you with 2 warlord traits.

Will it blend? Wait... I mean... do they stack?

Using the precedent established for the Daemonic Incursion Infernal Tetrad formation, which allows each Daemon Prince to share the same warlord trait as if they were the warlord, then no, it does not stack. They specifically call out "strategic genius" as an example and you would only get +1 to seize.

 dan2026 wrote:
A new Sisters book has to be coming.

That word 'has'.. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Khadorstompy wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Khadorstompy wrote:
Huh interesting. Given that a "Unit" of Acolytes is just 1 model. You could take an Inquisitor with a single Acolyte, and couple of Jokaero to buff a Deathwatch, Adepta Sororitas, or GK Termi squad.

You don't combine with the DW, AS or GK squad.

Looks like you might be right. If so we are back into the "this book sucks" mode again.

If the jokero uses the same wording as before the bonus will apply to the entire warband detachment so it will affect dw/gk/sob. They could change the dataslate for the ability so that it states unit instead of inq war-band.

But aren't those rules already in the Codex on the website?

We've been over that image. It is referring to two books that are being sold right now. Codex: AS and Codex: IA already exist and are being sold. It does not reference a book that may or may not come. (I believe it will. I also am 100% sure that that datasheet is not confirming a thing.)

 wormark wrote:

Silentz wrote:

 VitruvianZeke wrote:
every page that's been leaked that talks about a Detachment refers to it as a "unique Detachment?"

.

Interesting. If that's what it says then yes, I would assume you can only take one of each.

However, that still leaves you with 2 warlord traits.

Will it blend? Wait... I mean... do they stack?

Using the precedent established for the Daemonic Incursion Infernal Tetrad formation, which allows each Daemon Prince to share the same warlord trait as if they were the warlord, then no, it does not stack. They specifically call out "strategic genius" as an example and you would only get +1 to seize.

thanks for the quick answer with actual backup to a precedent!

I guess you have to be careful rolling on the same table.

Versatilebeats wrote:

Khadorstompy wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Khadorstompy wrote:
Huh interesting. Given that a "Unit" of Acolytes is just 1 model. You could take an Inquisitor with a single Acolyte, and couple of Jokaero to buff a Deathwatch, Adepta Sororitas, or GK Termi squad.

You don't combine with the DW, AS or GK squad.

Looks like you might be right. If so we are back into the "this book sucks" mode again.

If the jokero uses the same wording as before the bonus will apply to the entire warband detachment so it will affect dw/gk/sob. They could change the dataslate for the ability so that it states unit instead of inq war-band.

Now you got me hopeful again. Stop toying with me.

reds8n wrote: "Codex: Adepta Sororitas OR Codex: Imperial Agents...."

Are you not forgetting the current codex that is being sold right now? It could mean it's used for that or the C:IA.