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Hmm wasnt aware he was going back to Ad Mech, thought he was happy with his genestealers

Might have been just this one time.

Mod warning. A few users in this thread really need to cool their jets. Don't ruin this thread for others, be adults and post as such within the rules of the forum, especially Rule #1 which is be polite. Thank you

What the heck did I miss?!

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
What the heck did I miss?!

I believe 2/3 of the thread sided with Horus and the record of such has been expunged from history. Praise the Omnissiah.

I would side with Horus in a heartbeat if it meant I could take Renegade Knights. But the codex won't let me. =(

Has anyone done the math on the less commonly used units in the new 'dex?

Do you think we'll get point reductions on things like ruststalkers and destroyers/breachers in the FAQ release afterward?

LexOdin9 wrote:


Do you think we'll get point reductions on things like ruststalkers and destroyers/breachers in the FAQ release afterward?

Fingers crossed. Otherwise, most of what has been discussed the last few pages is likely going to stick. So, Mars + Stygies for pure AdMech as a go-to, with small variations in what folks bring. How many of what and weapon preference.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Because betrayal at calth and assault on black reach sold so poorly *eyeroll* to the ignore list you go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2015/08/05/40k-buying-guide-current-top-selling-gw-products/

The real number one seller and an item never to leave the top of the charts, is the Space Marine Tactical box. This iteration of the models is also still fairly new, and when you need grav-weapons you really have no choice. To put things in perspective at one point the Space Marine Tactical box has sold more units in one month than the entire Fantasy range for the same period, and you wonder why we have Age of Sigmar.

Now granted selling more than sigmar isn't a high bar

1. Betrayal At Calth and Burning Of Prospero sold so well because it offered different armor types for Marines and Terminators. I bought three Betrayals because I use Tactical Marines for my Sternguard and anything else, as I HATE bling.
2. It sold well because it's got a bunch of parts that are useful. That doesn't make the Tactical Marines any good.

Like, what the hell are you trying to prove? Marines, a popular army, had a kit sell super well?

See, I knew ignoring yoda 10+ pages ago was a good decision :p

Anyway, I about multiple Neutron Onagers - that's what Reece said. I guess because they can quite easily miss. and not do their job, while Icarus at least does something most of the time.

Geoff lost closely because his 10 man ranger screen allowed a 20-man unit of blinged plaguemarines to slide into his 6 dakkastellon gun line. As someone who plans on running the 6 dakkastelon list, this was a mix of bad tactics and strategy.

Tactics: a 10 man screen that is 1 inch away from your dakkestelon line is no screen at all, it is actually a slingshot to allow overwatchless charges into the robots. For screens to prevent the slide into combat trick the screen must be 4.1" away from the protected unit from the enemy facing front edge of the screening base to the enemy facing front edge of the screened unit.

Strategy: 32 rangers with a sprinkling of sniper rifles is a poor screen. The problem with 6 robots is you run out of points for both (1) a good screen and (2) some kind of counter assault. My old list had celestine/assassins/conscripts. Adding more robots eats celestine and the assassins. Putting in rangers eats the conscripts. Strategically, I think you need to make a serious commitment to screen. Maybe go down to 5 robots, drop the CDS, full commitment to castling behind a 60 body screen.

EDIT: yes to above. Icarus is consistent and can be made even more consistent with an easy +2 to hit strategem.

Yeah it was his 3rd game with AdMech. And he said the list wasn't refined at all.

The wrath of mars was preeeeetty disgusting to watch

Bought myself another Dragoon today and played two games. I don't have the new codex rules yet and didn't play any of the leaked/shown codex changes.

Dragoons, don't often kill things due to their lack of AP (soon to change) but they tie up enemy rifles squads really well. I still intend to keep my Vanguard as my rifle squads and screens, but am more open to using them help screen my force. But the way I ended up playing them is both distracfex and aggressive.

They moved on both my flanks as my TPD and three breachers and three Destroyers foot/tread slogged up the table throwing torsion cannons and grav at anything which looked at me funny. Vanguard walked slightly ahead and a few times advanced and shot at penality to pepper targets of oppertunity or jump on an objective. This was also the first time I have used my dunecrawlers as mobile gun support. One Nuetron and one Iccaris. The +1 LD boost is invaluable and reroll to both the Skitarri and the Kataphratons as I never had to really worry about moral.

I think I will consistently take about 2-4 dragoons (need to buy two more; as I proxied two). Their mobility and -1 to be shot is/was super handy.

As a side note, anyone think twin Lazcannons are worth any points on my chicken walkers? I magnetized them so I can switch between which one I want to use, but their relatively high costs and fragility have me not wanting to take them and just pay the extra points to get another dunecrawler instead.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
See, I knew ignoring yoda 10+ pages ago was a good decision :p

Anyway, I about multiple Neutron Onagers - that's what Reece said. I guess because they can quite easily miss. and not do their job, while Icarus at least does something most of the time.

As in, if you run Neutron Crawlers, run multiples? Sure, I guess?

Icarus with Cawl is definitely the more reliable TAC Crawler.

Wulfey wrote:

Tactics: a 10 man screen that is 1 inch away from your dakkestelon line is no screen at all, it is actually a slingshot to allow overwatchless charges into the robots. For screens to prevent the slide into combat trick the screen must be 4.1" away from the protected unit from the enemy facing front edge of the screening base to the enemy facing front edge of the screened unit.

Sorry, I didn't understand this the way you said it. I've always just put my Skitarii models >3" away from my Kastelans so they don't consolidate into the 1" bubble of my Kastelans. They can start at 1" away from my Skitarii, move 1", then move 25mm past base of my model, then another .99";, which is just shy of 1" from my Kastelans. (This is assuming the enemy is 25mm; if they are larger, I move my line up further.) Is this what you're saying as well?

 Tsol wrote:

As a side note, anyone think twin Lazcannons are worth any points on my chicken walkers? I magnetized them so I can switch between which one I want to use, but their relatively high costs and fragility have me not wanting to take them and just pay the extra points to get another dunecrawler instead.

A squad of 3-4 and Stygies dogma and stratagem can be a very powerful backline threat.

Yeah, 3.1" between front to back of bases will work if the base of the screening unit is longer than 1". I heard it was 4.1" from front of screening unit base because a super trickey player would just ignore your base and say "I move between your models 3". Since the opponent had to get within 1" of the screening unit to make the charge, a 4.1" gap from enemy facing of base of screening unit will guarantee that your opponent cannot cheese his way into consolidating past the screen.

[charging enemy]
________
[screen unit]
..
..
_______
[protected unit]

The two underscore lines need to be 4.1" to guarantee ahead of time that your opponent cannot consolidate 3" into the protected unit. Anything shorter and squeezing between screening units can lead to being within 1" of the protected unit.

EDIT: at ITC tournaments i go to I fully expect my opponent to cheat and push models, so I pre measure and explain this to them when it matters.

Wulfey wrote:
Yeah, 3.1" between front to back of bases will work if the base of the screening unit is longer than 1". I heard it was 4.1" from front of screening unit base because a super trickey player would just ignore your base and say "I move between your models 3". Since the opponent had to get within 1" of the screening unit to make the charge, a 4.1" gap from enemy facing of base of screening unit will guarantee that your opponent cannot cheese his way into consolidating past the screen.

The tricky player is not following RAW. Your consolidation move has to put you closer to the unit you charged. The trick is to be 1" away, then .99" away, but behind the other unit. (Doesn't work on Dragoons, fortunately. It takes more than 3" to get around it... which is why we also have the pile-in problem.)

I loved Geoff on the podcast:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/176206339
00:40:58
Like WOW. Telling it like it is. He joked(?) that ruststalkers should be 50-60 pts less. So I was like: sure, I'll humor him....................................
I mean.............
Yeah..................


Even with their price cut in HALF, Ruststalkers are worse than conscripts in durability and comparable in damage. (Melee should do more than ranged, right?). Not to mention Conscripts being: troops(so obsec), having more bodies(take up more space and capture objetices), immune to morale (with comissar), can take orders and do shananigans.

so had my first testplay yesterday.
Mars Spearhead
Cawl
4 dakkastelans
2 Neutronagers
9 Infiltrators

Graia Battalion
TPD with +1CP
Enginseer
Vanguard
Vanguard
Vanguard

Stygies Outrider
Enginseer
Dragoon
Dragoon
2 Dragoons

He played a nasty nid list with 5 Murlocs, about 60 Genestealer, Shrimp and Swarmlord.

Made the mistake to kill murlocs first. Genestealer charged turn 1 and swarmed through the lines. they got to the Kastelans turn 2 which meant game over. We redid the whole thing and played again. I deployed in a corner and set up the screen very tight. killed the first genestealer unit with wrath mof mars and 2 murlocs, dropped the infiltrator in the back to harrass. he went for the inifltrators with the swarmlord and shoved genestealers into my face. 5++ and fnp needs at least 3 dakkastelans with wrath of mars and protector to kill them.
this match up is decided in turn 2. either i kill most if not all genestealer and the swarmlord or i lose because all the dakka will be tight up. I missed my datasmith though...not sure if its smart to go out without him.

Guess this sums it up perfectly! Pic

Got a question for you lago and your test game i see you used graia did you had the warlord trait shooting in melee? And can you post if you try with rangers thanks!

Might work better if you take only a unit of 3 dragoons.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I loved Geoff on the podcast:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/176206339
00:40:58
Like WOW. Telling it like it is. He joked(?) that ruststalkers should be 50-60 pts less. So I was like: sure, I'll humor him....................................
I mean.............
Yeah..................


Even with their price cut in HALF, Ruststalkers are worse than conscripts in durability and comparable in damage. (Melee should do more than ranged, right?). Not to mention Conscripts being: troops(so obsec), having more bodies(take up more space and capture objetices), immune to morale (with comissar), can take orders and do shananigans.

That's more an issue with Conscripts being ridiculous. I won't comment if Rustalkers are any good as I've not used them, but as someone that's faced Conscripts I can definitely comment on that.

Iago40k wrote:
so had my first testplay yesterday.

Spoiler:

Mars Spearhead
Cawl
4 dakkastelans
2 Neutronagers
9 Infiltrators

Graia Battalion
TPD with +1CP
Enginseer
Vanguard
Vanguard
Vanguard

Stygies Outrider
Enginseer
Dragoon
Dragoon
2 Dragoons

He played a nasty nid list with 5 Murlocs, about 60 Genestealer, Shrimp and Swarmlord.

Made the mistake to kill murlocs first. Genestealer charged turn 1 and swarmed through the lines. they got to the Kastelans turn 2 which meant game over. We redid the whole thing and played again. I deployed in a corner and set up the screen very tight. killed the first genestealer unit with wrath mof mars and 2 murlocs, dropped the infiltrator in the back to harrass. he went for the inifltrators with the swarmlord and shoved genestealers into my face. 5++ and fnp needs at least 3 dakkastelans with wrath of mars and protector to kill them.
this match up is decided in turn 2. either i kill most if not all genestealer and the swarmlord or i lose because all the dakka will be tight up. I missed my datasmith though...not sure if its smart to go out without him.

Yeah, Genestealers can be rough. Ironically, this is one instance where taking the Stygies warlord trait and weapon relics helps. In games where you almost guaranteedly will be fighting in close quarters eventually, you might want an insurance policy.

I just think GW/testers made a huge mistake when evaluating durability. No model should cost less than 5. With Brimstones and Conscripts costing 3 (and there are plenty models that are just a bit worse so they'll be used when these 2 get nerfed) Anti-Horde weapons are mostly BETTER against VEHICLES/MONSTERS than actual HORDES. This is so stupid.

How do you beat a horde of 3-4 pts garbage? Bring a horde of 3-4 pts garbage...

Yoda79 wrote:
Guess this sums it up perfectly! Pic

Got a question for you lago and your test game i see you used graia did you had the warlord trait shooting in melee? And can you post if you try with rangers thanks!

Might work better if you take only a unit of 3 dragoons.

Yeah i tried the Warlord trait. Underwhelming is what it is. In theory it could work but our troops are so flimsy that they will die in the first place most of the time, regardless of their 6+ pseudo fnp. Plus, if they are within 1 inch of the enemy I cant shoot anything else into them. They might work in order to break the kastelans free if tight up, but then you definitely dont want them to be rangers but vanguard. They are in a weird if they get charged then the WL trait does not help. It would be good to use if you charge and tie up enemies. but for that your vanguard/ranger have to be up front with the Wl in their back and I dont see that coming.
Graia has 2 good things, 1 CP Arcana and being able to deny the witch. And with the CP I am not so sure anymore. Will have to see against other armies.

Here are some safe lists:
Mars + Stygies CP screen everything


Same but AUX drop:
- onager
- 2 dragoons
+ 20 Shooty priests

Or drop another Dragoon and go 20 Fulgurites in Stygie to be stupid powerful when you get turn 1

Or just go infiltrators:
+ 2x 5 infiltrators

Spam Wrath of Mars, blow up dragoons, switch to protector turn 1

 Castellan Alaric wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:

What knight would you run instead? Also 550 points? Have the points values changed since index or do you mean with a couple of shiny extras?

Like @em_en_oh_pee said, the crusader is like 580ish all decked out with the battle cannon and gatling + the stormspear pod. It is super good, to be sure, but I loved the 6 damage fist option If there is the possibility for knights to get rerolls, expect them to be back with a vengeance.

Right now my list has an errant with a gauntlet and an icarus autocannon due to no points left over for the stormspear pod. He is fully magnetized though so I can go gallant if I wanted or crusader as well. All based on the role I want him to play. In the process of painting him right now, and good gracious is there lots to prime black, even with my airbrush

Nice. Good luck with the painting

Has anyone confirmed Cognis Heavy Stubbers getting cheaper?

Suzuteo wrote:
Has anyone confirmed Cognis Heavy Stubbers getting cheaper?

It is in WintersSEO's video. You can see it is 5 pts:

Iago40k wrote:

Yoda79 wrote:
Guess this sums it up perfectly! Pic

Got a question for you lago and your test game i see you used graia did you had the warlord trait shooting in melee? And can you post if you try with rangers thanks!

Might work better if you take only a unit of 3 dragoons.

Yeah i tried the Warlord trait. Underwhelming is what it is. In theory it could work but our troops are so flimsy that they will die in the first place most of the time, regardless of their 6+ pseudo fnp. Plus, if they are within 1 inch of the enemy I cant shoot anything else into them. They might work in order to break the kastelans free if tight up, but then you definitely dont want them to be rangers but vanguard. They are in a weird if they get charged then the WL trait does not help. It would be good to use if you charge and tie up enemies. but for that your vanguard/ranger have to be up front with the Wl in their back and I dont see that coming.
Graia has 2 good things, 1 CP Arcana and being able to deny the witch. And with the CP I am not so sure anymore. Will have to see against other armies.

Yes i use a complete graia battalion but with 2* rangers 1* vanguard +1 vang stygia 2* rangers snipers.i find my outer defence with pseudo 6+ fnp possible gem for anti psych and warlprd trait with +1 cp my auto include. Since Stygia can be applied in units i got deeper in my lines or the ones i use to inf.

I havent refined my list yet since i really believe the faq will change things still i use atm for testing.

Mars spearhead
Batt Graia warlord tpd
Batt stygia. 11 cps

Graia notes. Rangers seem better when shooting after my vanguard -1 tough. Cheaper and more range for incoming attacks. Also better threat range
When moving them in games going for obj and not in defence.
Only rangers worse with out vanguards so far. But their teaming is somehow extreme vs hordes if not wiped. An onager with broad spectrum and -1 hit stygia behind them seems to help increase my unit count to 7-8 on my graia batt and not worry for morale so much. Also graia 6+ morale help.
They are not ig conscripts but can shoot with the best infantry gun and defend better especially in range. Lower wound count is an issue but i prefer ad mech army. Tested any arc on them?
Atm i dont use dragoons. Planning to get a group inside but i find infiltrators better suited for Mars -stygia simce troops got -1 or 6fnp. Cp wise and shooting wise. Since i cant benefit from mars dual canticles on dragoons unless i walk them up the field. And dual canticle all gems buffing those sicarans with defauot deep strike is a good combo. How did that worked for you?? Did you use +1 hit for taser you use melee cantickes etc?? Any nice combinations for you in the field. I havent yet seen the full potential of gems dual canticles maybe a hq buff etc.
Might give us some dagoon offensive information. Str 8 -1 4+ taser not a joke with some buffs in a 3+ unit. But still walking them seems the way for me.

Much obliged.

I think I am going with this:

Mars Spearhead Detachment - 950

HQ - 250
1x Belisarius Cawl

Heavy Support - 700
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
4x Kastelan Robots - Heavy Phosphor Blasters, Twin Heavy Phosphor Blasters

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 1048

HQ - 104
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer - Warlord: Necromechanic
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer - Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land

Troop - 120
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Fast Attack - 544
2x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
2x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
4x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance

Heavy Support - 280
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether

Total: 1998 points
7 Command Points

After realizing the Conqueror Doctrina Imperative is only 1 CP and that a unit of 4 produces an average of 24 S8 AP-1 D2 attacks at WS2+... yeah, you can see what I did. I mean, I didn't realize how strong it was until I saw the math. These things just absolutely total transports and medium toughness units. I think 2x2 and 1x4 are the optimal concentrations. 2x2 for coverage and 1x4 for infiltration. In a really desperate situation, I can double wrap my artillery.

And yes, I do own 8 of these things. I just have to build another 2... sigh...

One burning question though: Do I move the Crawlers into the Mars detachment or divide them? Hmm...

Suzuteo wrote:
Much obliged.

I think I am going with this:

Mars Spearhead Detachment - 950

HQ - 250
1x Belisarius Cawl

Heavy Support - 700
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
4x Kastelan Robots - Heavy Phosphor Blasters, Twin Heavy Phosphor Blasters

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 1048

HQ - 104
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer - Warlord: Necromechanic
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer - Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land

Troop - 120
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Fast Attack - 544
2x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
2x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
4x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance

Heavy Support - 280
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether

Total: 1998 points
7 Command Points

After realizing the Conqueror Doctrina Imperative is only 1 CP and that a unit of 4 produces an average of 24 S8 AP-1 D2 attacks at WS2+... yeah, you can see what I did. I mean, I didn't realize how strong it was until I saw the math. These things just absolutely total transports and medium toughness units. I think 2x2 and 1x4 are the optimal concentrations. 2x2 for coverage and 1x4 for infiltration. In a really desperate situation, I can double wrap my artillery.

And yes, I do own 8 of these things. I just have to build another 2... sigh...

One burning question though: Do I move the Crawlers into the Mars detachment or divide them? Hmm...

love the list. Dragoons are so so good. I am not even bothering with the priests anymore, I played 6 Dragoons in 7th and in 8th they are even more badass. I would put the Onager into the Mars detachment though, You want that reroll on the unreliable 3+ for that weapon. If you really want to play Icarus though..dont know...I prefer 2 Neutronagers and 1 Icarus if that.
Is Necromechanic that good? I feel it is an extreme risk you make a flimsy enginseer your warlord just for the sake of the WL trait.