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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Cronch wrote:
Sure, but then you have no male ogres either, so any "male" elements like moustaches and beards must go.

But it's fantasy, so who says Ogre women don't have humongous beards? I mean, afterall they're not real.

And who says Ogre men don't have plain faces with huge breasts and carry children like sea horses?

Perhaps Ogre men and women both have humongous breasts, and are simply differentiated by wheather or not they have a full beard, or just a goatee and a moustache.

Derek H wrote:

Indeed, people saying that female ogres would be weaker than the males and therefore not fight alongside them are kind of missing the point that it's called fantasy for a reason.

Fantasy, noun "the faculty or activity of imagining impossible or improbable things." (Google Dictionary)

WA are not obligated to conform with anyone else's conception of ogres.

And even if ogres would have similar dimorphism than humans I don’t think it would much matter if most of their enemies were non-ogres. Female ogres would still be overwhelmingly larger and stronger than their opponents.

Wargames Atlantic said that after conversations with the winner, the ogre below from Westphalia is what they are going with as to what a male ogre will look like…


So… um.., these won’t be 3 breasted no arm ogres…

I see no reason why a model's gender should be in any way related to a player's gender.

Guys I literally just want some ogres for a WFB Empire army. I don't care if they're male or female.

In the wise words of three year old me: Mom, Dad, stop fighting.

There are LOADS of female landsknechts in fantasy settings. You just have to google for some larp pics to see proof. There's a bunch for Empire Larp in the UK, and I found this German pic of a married landsknecht couple doing a Warhammer larp. Checkm8 h8ers!

 Smokestack wrote:
Wargames Atlantic said that after conversations with the winner, the ogre below from Westphalia is what they are going with as to what a male ogre will look like…


So… um.., these won’t be 3 breasted no arm ogres…

What you don't realize is that underneath that codpiece, he is packing essentially Zoidberg's face. So it is more like a cuttle-piece.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I want my post restored.

The way to get that done is to PM the moderator who removed it and discuss it with them.

lord_blackfang wrote:Dakka doesn't want that discussion. We weren't even allowed a thread on "Warhammer is for everyone". Dakka is afraid to do a head count on these matters.

We had several threads on it as well as a huge tangential discussion in a pricing thread, unfortunately every single thread that touches on such matters devolves into petty bickering and name calling and serves no useful purpose.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I think leaving up the posts encouraging sexism and misogyny and removing the ones that call out that behavior is indicative of taking a certain stance/side, personally.

I really struggle to see how their post does anything of the kind, where as yours was just rude.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Actually, having seen that thread on facebook, there was only really one guy being kind of a jerk, calling people sexist and misogynist and accusing them of gatekeeping, and all the dumb things that kind of person says when they have nothing intelligent to add. Aside from that, and a few people saying they want it one way or the other just to annoy the people who want it the other way, it seemed pretty civil. Compared with here.

How does that encourage sexism/misogyny in any way?

So as not to drag this thread into a spiral of oblivion please feel free to PM further on this issue.

To change the subject to bickering about a diffrent poll, WGA is now making a Facebook poll on how people feel about their Army Builder sets like the Prussian reserve

https://www.facebook.com/groups/WargamesAtlanticLegion/permalink/1126481841164299/

Huh. Looks like the Legion group is set to private and secret.

I’d love to see an Army Builder set for fantasy horde armies like Goblins or Skeletons.

To be honest, I don't see what kind of issue anyone could have with a mixed sex unit of ogres. Even if their sexual dimorphism and difference in strength would be the same as in humans, that wouldn't make a practical difference when fighting against humans or similarly sized opponents. Being hit by them would end up causing exactly the same injuries, i.e. crushed bones.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
I’d love to see an Army Builder set for fantasy horde armies like Goblins or Skeletons.

Theres not many scifi or fantasy armies where the army builder sets would look cool. They are more of an anomaly, usable for stuff like napoleonic and early modern warfare... maybe stuff like sarist phalanxs, some roman formations... skeletons, if you have them in the "all acting like puppets" ala TW:W it could work but with chaotic groups like goblins I don't think it would look good.

The Army Builder goblin set could work if they match the goblin kit, so that all the spare goblin parts can be put on the AB goblins for variety for those who care. It would require more snipping and gluing than most AB sets, but players who just want a quick, cheap horde can skip that.

I mean I have yet to se anyone asking for feminine models in historical kits (Outside proper historical female boxes like french WW2 partisans), but you have a TON of guys making a fuss about women (or females of X races) in fantasy and even scifi settings.

And heck even in most fantasy settings most people accepts that where a society is sexist, like Warhammer Empire, is ok to not have rank and file women in your armies. But I have yet to see people saying anything about womens in Warcraft's Human armies because they have existed there since 2004. Most complaints come from a place of "In this specific fantasy/scifi race, men and women are equal so why all units are just male". And we can see with stuff like the newer stormcast how much better a mixed army looks for most people.

I'm not a fan of the Army Builder concept. I guess it can work for regiments at march but that's about it. Amusing to contrast it against the complaints over monopose models in 40k tho.

 Galas wrote:
I mean I have yet to se anyone asking for feminine models in historical kits (Outside proper historical female boxes like french WW2 partisans), but you have a TON of guys making a fuss about women (or females of X races) in fantasy and even scifi settings.

I kind of view miniatures and rpgs like I do movies. If I am watching a movie based on an actual event… then it might be weird to see an entire ww2 fighter unit of all women bomb Pearl Harbor… or the Roman legion consisting of blonde women fighting in Britain. But

Seeing a unit of female knights defending the iron wizard? Or a group of females mixed in with the unit defending the Great Wall from Matt Damon? Why not?

And it would be weird if in the vampire unite of Death Dealers ala Underworld, they told the main character that girls can’t be vampire assassins because they aren’t as strong as boy vampires. Or in X-men… no girls because it’s called x- “men”!

I don’t really have any quota agenda nor equality now! Stance… I just think including females is cool, and want them in my collection.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm not a fan of the Army Builder concept. I guess it can work for regiments at march but that's about it. Amusing to contrast it against the complaints over monopose models in 40k tho.

The price is a concern, though. For about 50 cents a body, monopose space troopers make more sense. Use them as cannon fodder, for endless head swaps, as statues (especially on 6mm-15mm games’ tables), color-swapped for cheap opposing forces to try out new generic rule sets... I’d love to give some to friends who aren’t in the hobby to paint, something I would hesitate to do with $3-$5 per mook troops.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Huh. Looks like the Legion group is set to private and secret.

Thank goodness. I don’t want my extended family to know what I’m into.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm not a fan of the Army Builder concept. I guess it can work for regiments at march but that's about it. Amusing to contrast it against the complaints over monopose models in 40k tho.

Well, the main difference is that in case of an Army Builder you sacrifice modularity and options (that monopose models don't have either) for a bunch of bodies to bulk up your forces for much cheaper (and in 40k monopose models are usually more expensive than ones with options)

 Wehrkind wrote:

 Smokestack wrote:
Wargames Atlantic said that after conversations with the winner, the ogre below from Westphalia is what they are going with as to what a male ogre will look like…


So… um.., these won’t be 3 breasted no arm ogres…

What you don't realize is that underneath that codpiece, he is packing essentially Zoidberg's face. So it is more like a cuttle-piece.

You know... i would still probably buy that set... if only to terrify my rpg players.

I'm looking forward to seeing what else they have planned for the army builder sets. For blocks of troops, it should be fine even where there wasn't a uniform, because you can still get some variety from having 5 or 6 different bodies with different head options, or separate shields or weapon arms or something like that.

 Smokestack wrote:

 Wehrkind wrote:
What you don't realize is that underneath that codpiece, he is packing essentially Zoidberg's face. So it is more like a cuttle-piece.

You know... i would still probably buy that set... if only to terrify my rpg players.

Gack! If I wanted that sort of thing I'd have backed the Kingdom Death: Monster kickstarter!

With all the anger that WGA's initiative has stirred up, I doubt they will do another poll option and associated kit again, even if the Ogres and the yet undetermined kit do well. Better to do what they think will sell well, without raising consumers' expectations too high, as this well-meant event has.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm not a fan of the Army Builder concept. I guess it can work for regiments at march but that's about it. Amusing to contrast it against the complaints over monopose models in 40k tho.

One is cheaper and fairly priced that gives you a large amount of minis for the price. The other is one model for the same price as many, both being monopose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ogres of the kind WGA are planning can also be used as unit filler in an old Empire army.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:

With all the anger that WGA's initiative has stirred up, I doubt they will do another poll option and associated kit again, even if the Ogres and the yet undetermined kit do well. Better to do what they think will sell well, without raising consumers' expectations too high, as this well-meant event has.

The Conquistadors were a poll win too. So this is the second set created based on results of a poll. Technically the 3rd since the Conquistador poll included the Aztecs that will be made. The polls are fun. I dont remember the conquistador/aztec one being this ... controversial?

Wargames Atlantic said they may do some Nickstarter type campaigns on their website to produce the other 11 sets that made it to the final round, with a vote as to which one would be picked next. So, that will probably replace these poll type ones as far as publicity and getting people involved in new products.

The other 11... I really only liked 2 of... the peasants and the cultists... so I may have a dry WA spell for a while, but the process looks like it will be fun,.

I kind of wish Wargames Atlantic and Fireforge would collaborate to create new plastic sets for Fireforge's game. Not that I play Fireforge's game, but I do like some of the miini concepts... and the stuff they could create together would be awesome. And I think i heard that the guy who designed the Northmen for Fireforge is the same guy who did the Conquistadors for WA.

Army builder set could work for some Landsknect pikemen... to serve their Ogre overlords. or Overladies if that happens.

I hope there are many new polls to come.

So trying to find an use for these models: is there any way to include ogors to Cities of Sigmar army in AOS?

 Smokestack wrote:

The Conquistadors were a poll win too. So this is the second set created based on results of a poll. Technically the 3rd since the Conquistador poll included the Aztecs that will be made. The polls are fun. I dont remember the conquistador/aztec one being this ... controversial?

Wargames Atlantic said they may do some Nickstarter type campaigns on their website to produce the other 11 sets that made it to the final round, with a vote as to which one would be picked next. So, that will probably replace these poll type ones as far as publicity and getting people involved in new products.

The other 11... I really only liked 2 of... the peasants and the cultists... so I may have a dry WA spell for a while, but the process looks like it will be fun,.

I kind of wish Wargames Atlantic and Fireforge would collaborate to create new plastic sets for Fireforge's game. Not that I play Fireforge's game, but I do like some of the miini concepts... and the stuff they could create together would be awesome. And I think i heard that the guy who designed the Northmen for Fireforge is the same guy who did the Conquistadors for WA.

Army builder set could work for some Landsknect pikemen... to serve their Ogre overlords. or Overladies if that happens.

Oh, that's right. Although I'd call that a single poll, as they asked us for our opinions on pairings they had selected, such as Aztecs vs Conquistadors and French Foreign Legion vs Tuaregs. And, no, I don't remember that poll being so controversial either. OTOH, they had more control since they had pre-selected the options: basically saying we are considering these pairs of boxed sets, which of them do you like best. Expectations were not raised as high.

Yes, this poll and the discussion it fostered was fun. It's the fallout in its wake which has soured matters.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Huh. Looks like the Legion group is set to private and secret.

Most groups tend to be, to keep out the spam, unless they have a large enough moderation team to have more or less permanent oversight.

And a lot of people prefer groups to be private because it avoids flooding their family and friends' news feed with hobby stuff.

 insaniak wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Huh. Looks like the Legion group is set to private and secret.

Most groups tend to be, to keep out the spam, unless they have a large enough moderation team to have more or less permanent oversight.

And a lot of people prefer groups to be private because it avoids flooding their family and friends' news feed with hobby stuff.

We received an influx of spam invite requests