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Ok, interesting question. In the OK book, sword gnoblers are listed as such;
An ogre with sword gnoblers benifits from one extra strength 2 attack per combat round per sword gnobler in his possession, at the weapon skill of the owning model

If an ogre is carring a great weapon, do these gnobler attacks go up to strength 4? If he is carrying a magic weapon, do the extra attacks benifit from the magic item rules too? I know this is not Rules as Intended, but by the letter of the book, it seems that the extra attacks do benifit from the owners weapon.

My added thought of proof is the closest similar 'equipment,' a dwarf lord's shield bearers. Those rules specify that the extra attacks do not benifit from the lord's weapon. What do you mighty dakkites think?

This reminds me of warrior familiars.

It stays at str 2.

It is similar, but not the same. The warrior familiar says:

At the beginning of each close combat round, before blows are struck, the FAMILIAR strikes one S5 hit.....

Not quite the same. It is clear that the hit is from the familiar itself. The sword gnoblers grant the user bonus attacks. Hence the confusion. Thank you for you input however. I appreciate it, and had not considered the chaos familiars.

No. The rules do not state that they gain any benefit from the great weapon of the user. The Gnoblar's attack is S2, nothing in the book says otherwise.

Ok, I am still not convinced about the strength issue, but leaving that be for a minute. What about magic weapons. Would the extra attacks benefit from killing blow if the owning ogre had skullplucker? What about doing D3 wounds if he had the tenderizer? RAW would seems to say yes because they give the owner extra attacks. The gnoblers are apieces of equipment like the Ed kicking boots from the O&G book. Your thoughts?

It is a piece of equipment, yes. but it doesnt give +1A (which would use the special rules for the weapon), it is just a stupid little gnoblar that hits additional with S2 without any improvements. Its just a Gnoblar!

Actually it does give the ogre an extra attack. See my first post for the actual wording.

According to your wording, the hit is at s2. A sword gnoblar does not gain any benefits from the owners weapon, magical or otherwise. This isn't that difficult.

Also, the Gnoblar does give your Ogre character an additional Attack. But nowhere does it say that the Gnoblar may get a benefit from the Ogre's weapon, magical or otherwise. The Gnoblar is not using the weapon, the Ogre is. Therefore, the Gnoblar does not get ANY benefit from the Ogre's weapon. RAW states that the Gnoblar's attack is at S2.


Show me where in the OK armybook (Which I do own, BTW) it says that the Gnoblar gains any benefit from the Ogre's weapon.

Well that is the rub isn't it? It doesn't say it benefits from the magic weapon, but then it doesn't say that they don't either. Just to be clear, I do not play OK. I am playing in a tourney at the end of the month and I know at least one OK player whom insists that the sword gnoblers get all the benefits will be there. I am playing devil's advocate to try and have some backing for when and if the issue does arise.

RAW written says that the ogre with a sword gnobler gains an extra attack at S2. There is no actual gnobler attacking. The ogre who bought it gets the bonus attack. That is the basis for the defense that these bonus attacks get all the added effects. I know that RAI is the gnobler pokes his head out and stabs some nearby. That makes sense, and thus it should not get the added bonuses. But I need to prove it. The exact wording of; 'An ogre with a sword gnobler gets one extra S2 attack per round.' is the sticking point. The ogre gets bonus attacks. Why would these attacks NOT use his weapon?

I appreciate everyone's help in this matter. Like I said, I am trying to cover any possible arguments this guys might come up with.

The rules are permissive, if the rules don't give the gnoblar bonus attack the benefit of magic weapons, it doesn't have them.

Edit: to work the way that fellow wants it to, it'd just need to be +1 A for each sword gnoblar.

Hmmmm... I don't know. Following that logic, the Ed kicking boots from the O&G book wouldn't allow you to use the owners magic weapon for that attack either.
The dwarf shield bearers are the closest equivilant to this. And it specifically says that the bonus attacks granted by using them, '...these attacks do not benifit from any weapon,(runic or otherwise), that is carried by the general.

The Ogre gets the bonus attacks, but it says at S2. He does not get a bonus from the weapon. The attack does not use the weapon because it is a Gnoblar hitting the target at S2. The Ogre gets the bonus, but it's the Gnoblar attacking. It would say if the Gnoblar gets any benefits.

Simply ask the guy running the tourney if he pushes it. I'm sure you should be fine.

Just sort it out with the tourney organizer beforehand because he's going to have the final decision anyway...or just do something so horrible to him in the game that he'll never want to play ogres again. I did that with a vampire with red fury & a frostblade once. I laughed when he started adding up combat res.

Thanks guys. I a[[reciate all the feedback. Vamp + Frostblade = no friends. Good thing to keep in mind though.

Ha, I forget what the ruling over on the Ogre Stronghold was, but I do remember it was asked ...

Another ogre player at my FLGS pointed out that sword gnoblars work with beastkiller, should they manage to wound a large target. I'm pretty sure he's right too, though it's hard to say how that works yet magic weapons don't ...

- Salvage

Beast killer gnoblers. That is an funny image. Yeah, the wording is vague enough to allow the interpretation. GW vague? No way!

Nah - usually Fantasy is pretty good about their interpretations. However, this is a case in point for an army many consider not playable - so maybe now we understand why . . . .

I like the models though. I used the leadbelchers to make my Orks!