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After Trolling about double lash I have decided to make a "Lash." It will only have a single one but I not full of that much Cheese .
Oh well 'ere it goes!

List A

HQ
Daemon Prince w/ LOS, MOS, Wings
Daemon Prince w/ MON, Warptime, Wings

Troops
Plague Marines x10 w/ x2 meltaguns, Champion w/ PF, Rhino
Plague Marines x10 w/ x2 meltaguns, Champion w/ PF, Rhino
CSM x10 w/ x2 Plasmaguns, Champion, Rhino

Heavy Support
Vindicator w/ daemonic possession
Vindicator w/ daemonic possession

List B

HQ
Daemon Prince w/ LOS, MOS, Wings
Daemon Prince w/ MON, Warptime, Wings

Troops
Plague Marines x8 w/ x2 meltaguns, Champion w/ PF, Rhino
Plague Marines x8 w/ x2 meltaguns, Champion w/ PF, Rhino
Noise Marines x8 w/ x4 Sonic Blasters, Champion w/ PW, Doom Siren, Melta Bombs, Rhino w/ Havoc Launcher

Heavy Support
Vindicator w/ daemonic possession
Vindicator w/ daemonic possession

Which List is better?

Hope it is good! But then again it is LASH lol!

Lash != good.

Drop the Land Raider. Replace it with 3 Oblits, or 2 more vindicators, and a rhino for the 1 melta PM squad.
Drop the home objective plague marines. Replace it with a 10 man CSM squad with some form of heavy weapon.

Get rid of extra armor, give the 1 meltagun squad another meltagun.

Ya, you should ditch the land raider and replace it with another vindicator and make sure all your troop squads are in rhinos. Also, max out your special weapon choices in your squads.

The Revelator wrote:Lash != good.

I have always thought that lol just thought it a bit cheesy lol.

Drop the Land Raider. Replace it with 3 Oblits, or 2 more vindicators, and a rhino for the 1 melta PM squad.
Drop the home objective plague marines. Replace it with a 10 man CSM squad with some form of heavy weapon.

Although those are both very good options for a lash army I prefer the protection and fire power of a land raider. Also, it has somewhat of an awefactor where an enemy with throw a bunch of stuff at it to try to eliminate it. The squad with one meltagun is designed to take a melta-shot and then charge the target. The land raider provides anti-tank to the army which it needs some in my opinion. I know that it doesn't have as much punch as a normal SM LR but it still has the protection. As far as the CSM squad I feel that the Plague Marines have more staying power than a normal CSM squad. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Get rid of extra armor, give the 1 meltagun squad another meltagun.

IMO the extra armour is very important in that it keeps the army moving. I don't want a vehicle sitting for a turn ya know what I'm saying?

I really appreciate your input!

Extra Armor almost doubles the cost of your rhinos, for a 1/6 chance of helping.

Vindicators and obliterators are far better AT than a land raider, especially a land raider that is going to be used as a transport. A rhino can move just as far as a land raider, and once you move 12 inches you're in killing radius anyway.

Plague marines are bad in CC for the fact that power weapons and the like deny their FNP.

10 CSM with an autocannon, heavy bolter, or missile launcher is far stronger than 7 plague marines, and just as surviveable against anything that denies FNP. They can't take as many lasgun shots, but they can dish out way more pain from your home objective, and take more AP1-2, or S8+ shots. A home objective squad should heavy heavy weapons as well as surviveability, regular CSM have both, plague marines are better for front line squads, because only front line squads take a lot of pain.

I have found a single lash and a Tzeench warp time prince go well together. T-prince with it's 4+ save invul can be a beast. 2 lashes are sometimes redudant.

Ok I see what you are saying and it makes sense to me now. They are very good points and I have changed my list around them.

Lemartes I agree except I want it to be a bit more fluffy then most Power Builds. A T6 DP is pretty beastly too! I don't like double lash because it is a bit to cheese and manipulative for me but a single one will be "fluffy" Since the CSM will be painted kinda Slaanshy!

Those 35 points left over could be used on a Icon of Nurgle, since you seem to like the Idea of T5 units.
If you buy them a rhino it can be used to screen your two important rhinos, or run right next to the other 2, so that if 1 gets shot up the precious cargo inside can move to the free one.

If you can free up 15 points you can give all those rhinos pintle mounted TL bolters, which does 2 things
1.) makes them harder to glance to death, important against Tau or Necrons
2.) Once the Rhino braves all the shots coming at it it can be used as a gunbox, more importantly, a threat to the enemy, which means less s6+ guns shooting at your vindies and DPs.

For 40 points it would have the firepower of roughly 2.5 CSM, while being untouchable by lasguns and only glanceable by lucky bolters.


That is personal preference though, Im just throwing the option out there, it looks like a pretty good list to me.

I have added another Rhino to the list. I wonder is the Lascannon worth the 20 pts pr would a Heavy Bolter or a Autocannon? Or maybe 2 meltaguns?

drummerholt1234 wrote:I have added another Rhino to the list. I wonder is the Lascannon worth the 20 pts pr would a Heavy Bolter or a Autocannon? Or maybe 2 meltaguns?

Put in two meltaguns. They're always worth it. Plus, you can shoot and still assault with those so they're definitely better.

Definitely two Meltas. And the last CSM codex had a Slaaneshi banner that gave FnP if that eases your fluff-conscience.

Muoio 117 wrote:

drummerholt1234 wrote:I have added another Rhino to the list. I wonder is the Lascannon worth the 20 pts pr would a Heavy Bolter or a Autocannon? Or maybe 2 meltaguns?

Put in two meltaguns. They're always worth it. Plus, you can shoot and still assault with those so they're definitely better.

Wrong! This is for a home objective squad, so 2 meltaguns would probably never be in range.
I suggest a missile launcher. It can take out light vehicles, up at av13, and can do anti-horde if you need it to.

I'm probably gonna keep the Lascannon for a AP2 weapon that can pop something with a little more armour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm probably gonna keep the Lascannon for a AP2 weapon that can pop something with a little more armour.

A Lascannon will hardly ever pop anything, especially by itself. It will insta-kill troops or hunt MCs just fine (the 4 turns that it will hit), but to touch anything with "a little more armor" it needs a 5 or 6 to glance/pen, followed another dice roll to do something that matters. It just seems that the Plague marines are much better sitting squad? And you also cripple the rest of the CSM squad so 1 weapon can fire.

Lash is not any sort of auto-win. I wouldn't expect that much from it.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:A Lascannon will hardly ever pop anything, especially by itself. It will insta-kill troops or hunt MCs just fine (the 4 turns that it will hit), but to touch anything with "a little more armor" it needs a 5 or 6 to glance/pen, followed another dice roll to do something that matters. It just seems that the Plague marines are much better sitting squad? And you also cripple the rest of the CSM squad so 1 weapon can fire.

Lash is not any sort of auto-win. I wouldn't expect that much from it.

That is exactly what I would use it for poping MC and insta-killing some other models and terminators. And it can do damage to vehicles not the best at it but with a little heck for 20 pts for a squad that will sit on an objective for the game I'll take it.

Lash is a tool just like any other. Its effectiveness is all a question of the situation in which it is used and the generalship of the user. With the amount or mech out there, its use has been limited, but I still feel it is extremely effective and useful, and anything that useful is ran with redundance, usually. Hence, why most people say max out your special weapons and if you can take 2 meltas, take 2 meltas. Not sure how two lashes ends up qualifying as cheese, but Vulkan lists, Mech Vet with Melta spam, etc are not. (And I don't think they are, they are great and fun lists)

Regardless and back on topic... I think your list is fine, just like I am doing myself, you need to play, play, play, and play some more with that list to find its strengths and deficiencies and the play style you need to use to maximize its efficiency. Then as you play, you will find some gaps that you need to fill, but as a base, I think your current version with 2 vindi and 3 solid troop choices is good. Though I do agree that maybe going with 1 lascannon is the CSM squad has limited potential. I would probably replace the lascannon with 2 plasma guns, so you still have decent MC kill, but a lot more shots.

Updated list!

Which One is better?

I think list A is better because there are more bodies. I would suggest taking the lascannon off the csm squad and adding in two meltaguns instead. Lascannons just slow you down if the rhino is popped. Either that or you can't use it at all. Meltas are better.

Agreed,list A is better,but as said,drop the lascannon & go with 2 melta guns.
See I commented on a "lash" list with out getting hostile,the theropy is working.

FITZZ wrote: Agreed,list A is better,but as said,drop the lascannon & go with 2 melta guns.
See I commented on a "lash" list with out getting hostile,the theropy is working.

Haha yeah this list goes with the paintng project that you gave me advise on

I went with two plasmaguns rather than meltas in the first game I played and I won against IG and managed to shoot down a valk with the plasmaguns!

I always run 2 lash if the game is 2000 points or more. 2 in smaller games is pretty much a waste of points - I'd rather have more troops. In larger games, the enemy usually has enough to easily drop princes, or something to counter lash such that I need 2 to rely on using it.

But I've always played Emperor's Children and aside from the occasional IOCG or unmarked squad, my whole army's Slaaneshi, and painted as such.

So anyone that wants to get on me about powergaming can stuff it - 2 Slaanesh princes is what my army's all about!

I'd prefer the 2nd list since Noise Marines are much better than the normal CSM, especially if they are transported and the AC has a doom siren, one of the best weapons in the game.

Spellbound wrote:So anyone that wants to get on me about powergaming can stuff it - 2 Slaanesh princes is what my army's all about!

Even the Empire was smart enough to plan ahead and attempted to build 2 Death Stars Yes, they only succeeded with one, once, and eventually lost, but that just goes to show that even when you dual death star its not instant win.

Redundancy is just being a smart general.

@drummerholt1234 - I think both list are pretty much on par with each other, at this point it would be a style preference. CSM for hanging back, NM for taking it to them. For me, I typically run the dual lash princes, 2 PM squads, 1 NM squad, 6 Oblits, and 1 Vindicator with DP... yeah cookie cutter, but just to give you an idea of what another person on this thread runs. I find the NM typically marginalized it terms of activity, but it would be the same if I took a CSM, NM, or even another PM squad..

and , eh? Call your army "The VD's"

Doctor Optimal wrote: and , eh? Call your army "The VD's"

Mine is mixed and , and I call mine "Ecstasy in Decay," which also happens to be an old Cannibal Corpse song. I am actually Black Legion and Abaddon just whips all the different folks into action, having the favor of all gods, and "makes it happen."

However, as Cannerus_The_Unbearable thankfully adds that in legacy fluff there was a way of giving Slaanesh a banner (Rapturous Standard) than gave them FnP in some situations, and with Count Zazz on your team, its easy to fluff up your list to be all Slaanesh, but have some of the Slaanesh worshippers have FnP (counts as Plague Marines).

@AbsoluteBlue I like that name for your army! I like mine too thou. :p

AbsoluteBlue wrote:For me, I typically run the dual lash princes, 2 PM squads, 1 NM squad, 6 Oblits, and 1 Vindicator with DP... yeah cookie cutter, but just to give you an idea of what another person on this thread runs. I find the NM typically marginalized it terms of activity, but it would be the same if I took a CSM, NM, or even another PM squad..

Yeah, that's a pretty solid list.
I run a similar list, but 10 Termies instead of the Vindicator, 1750 pts.
The Termies are almost a bargain.

I actually have about 110 points to spare in my base I listed, and from that I will do something silly like run my Chaos Dreadnought (2x DCCW) (totally not optimal) , but usually it ends up being a single Termicide Squad (3 Terms, 3x Combi-Meltas) or just add more Plague Marines or Noise Marines. But once you get your base, it's pretty much just minor tweaks that fit in with your play style, meta, etc.

I've think I have even ran it without filling in the extra points a few times, because I often forget I have those points floating around... and still do fine.

Fair warning though, the recent changes in meta based on IG codex have made this harder to play. Lots more mech showing up on the tables. I still like Lash though since, it has been great for late turn move opponent troops off the objectives

xdf