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If I'm in melee with a Tyrant and guard, can I pick out the Tyrant with melee attacks? Or do I have to kill the guard first?

When IC's have retinues the IC in question counts as an upgrade character for the squad so I think that the nid player can allocate wounds. I may be wrong though.

The Hive Tyrant is not an Independent Character.

If I remember correctly all of the wounds have to go to the guards first.

All the wounds do NOT have to go to the Guard first, but no the HT may not be singled out, either.

Lordhat wrote:All the wounds do NOT have to go to the Guard first, but no the HT may not be singled out, either.

Lordhat doth Agreeth with me.
The Hive Tyrant is not a IC in any case, so with the Guard, they are just treated like a normal 4 Man Unit (No picking out of the Tyrant in Shooting or CCW)

More importantly, does a tyrant and guard get cover saves from gaunts in front?

MCs need 50% covered to get cover saves. But it's in a unit. 3 of the 4 members aren't subject to the MC special penalties and thus the majority of the models in the unit are in cover - won't then the hive tyrant also get cover?

This pretty much applies as long as there's a single tyrant guard still available, as once you're down to 1 tyrant and 1 guard you've still got half the unit in cover. So long as ONE gaunt stands in front of ONE guard that tyrant 2" away in the broad open gets a cover save hehe.

Spellbound wrote:More importantly, does a tyrant and guard get cover saves from gaunts in front?

MCs need 50% covered to get cover saves. But it's in a unit. 3 of the 4 members aren't subject to the MC special penalties and thus the majority of the models in the unit are in cover - won't then the hive tyrant also get cover?

This pretty much applies as long as there's a single tyrant guard still available, as once you're down to 1 tyrant and 1 guard you've still got half the unit in cover. So long as ONE gaunt stands in front of ONE guard that tyrant 2" away in the broad open gets a cover save hehe.

It can be ruled either way. Clear it up pre game or roll off for it.

Gwar! wrote:

Spellbound wrote:More importantly, does a tyrant and guard get cover saves from gaunts in front?

MCs need 50% covered to get cover saves. But it's in a unit. 3 of the 4 members aren't subject to the MC special penalties and thus the majority of the models in the unit are in cover - won't then the hive tyrant also get cover?

This pretty much applies as long as there's a single tyrant guard still available, as once you're down to 1 tyrant and 1 guard you've still got half the unit in cover. So long as ONE gaunt stands in front of ONE guard that tyrant 2" away in the broad open gets a cover save hehe.

It can be ruled either way. Clear it up pre game or roll off for it.

Yay Gwars wrong again ^_^ ... The Tyrant Guard will get a cover save like normal but the Hive Tyrant must get 50% coverage. The rules for saves are simple use the best available to the model not the unit.

Um... so if I want to put a casualty on my bolter guy that's in the open instead of the plasmagunner in the woods, he doesn't get a cover save?

If half the unit is in cover the entire unit gets a cover save.

As far as the cover save for a Tyrant go if the guard (50% of the total squad) are in cover than he is. Sorry Tri you are wrong... the rule for saves also state that if 50% of a unit is in cover then the whole unit get the cover save so yeah... He can not be singled out because of the shield wall rule.

... missing the point but ....
The Tyrant Guard will get a cover save like normal but the Hive Tyrant must get 50% coverage. So the Guard count as being in cover .... simple math if I have 1 tyrant guard and 1 tyrant that 50% in cover every one gets a cover save.... ok should have posted that first but that's me want to go for food (nothing beats hot chilly and a beer)

Tri wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Spellbound wrote:More importantly, does a tyrant and guard get cover saves from gaunts in front?

MCs need 50% covered to get cover saves. But it's in a unit. 3 of the 4 members aren't subject to the MC special penalties and thus the majority of the models in the unit are in cover - won't then the hive tyrant also get cover?

This pretty much applies as long as there's a single tyrant guard still available, as once you're down to 1 tyrant and 1 guard you've still got half the unit in cover. So long as ONE gaunt stands in front of ONE guard that tyrant 2" away in the broad open gets a cover save hehe.

It can be ruled either way. Clear it up pre game or roll off for it.

Yay Gwars wrong again ^_^ ... The Tyrant Guard will get a cover save like normal but the Hive Tyrant must get 50% coverage. The rules for saves are simple use the best available to the model not the unit.

But the other argument is just as valid, hence why I said clear it up pre game. I didn't add what my personal view was because I would just have trolls coming and making Personal Attacks against me (yet again)

Gwar! wrote:
But the other argument is just as valid, hence why I said clear it up pre game. I didn't add what my personal view was because I would just have trolls coming and making Personal Attacks against me (yet again)

Ah you love a the personal attacks your like a Labour back bencher off to the S&M Parlour. If I Start adding "I agree with ..."to my empty signature I'm sure I'd get people ripping me up as well.

Tri wrote:

Gwar! wrote:
But the other argument is just as valid, hence why I said clear it up pre game. I didn't add what my personal view was because I would just have trolls coming and making Personal Attacks against me (yet again)

Ah you love a the personal attacks your like a Labour back bencher off to the S&M Parlour. If I Start adding "I agree with ..."to my empty signature I'm sure I'd get people ripping me up as well.

Not my fault I am right all the time

HA ... wouldn't be the same without people like you

The Brits must have more entertaining legislatures than we do... I am jealous
"Labour back bencher off to the S&M Parlour."

I think though that it is pretty cut and dry that if the Tyrant and at least 1 guard are in cover, the unit has cover since 50% of the unit gets the benefit.
Now, if just the tyrant was in cover and the 1 guard was out, that might be tricky, but I think the relevant wording is "in cover" not "has a cover save" so I think it still works. Don't rely on my memory though; I recommend double checking on that.

The rules for cover simply go by models. If half the models in the unit are in cover, the unit gets a cover save. Doesn't matter the relative or actual size of the models.

Yes, though, the tyrant needs to be half covered to count as being in cover. Examples:

1) Tyrant is in the open completely, guard has something, anything, screening part of it - WHOLE UNIT gets cover.

2) Guard is in the open, tyrant is only covered to its knees - no cover at all. Tyrant isn't in cover as less than 50% is blocked, guard is in the open.

3) Guard is in the open, tyrant is 50% covered or more - unit gets a cover save, because half the models are in cover [tyrant NOW counts as in cover because he's been half covered]

if 50% of the models in a UNIT are in cover than the entire UNIT has a cover save. Tyrant + guard are a unit. Hence the tyrant counts as being in cover as well. It's pretty easy.

ya, once the Tyrant is in a unit, he follows the cover rules for a unit...NOT for an MC. Once the unit is reduced to just the Tyrant, however, he becomes an MC again, and must be 50% covered for a cover save.