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Just finished reading this and have to say it's a really good read. It's good to see GW still allowing the 40k fluff to be set down in B&W. This title certainly answer a fair few questions, but opens up a few more. I'm always tempted to go out and start 40k again after reading one of the Horus novels, could even be tempted to do Dark Angels. Trouble is I then look at the cost and that puts me off, even though I get good discount off a mate who is an indie. Might just stick to 40k in 40 minute size forces, a small force I can spend time on painting it up.

I would have thought the DA vanilla codex would actually be more of a put off.

Flashman wrote:I would have thought the DA vanilla codex would actually be more of a put off.

Come on now. It's really not that bad.

I'm reading Descent of Angels and it's very good. Fallen Angels and Deathwing are my next purchases. I really dig the Dark Angels fluff. If you're liking the Horus Heresy stuff, give Descent of Angels a read, it starts out before the Emperor comes to Caliban and it gives you insight in to what the Order and their Knights are like. Really makes you proud to be an Unforgiven.

We all know what rules would make vanilla marines DA/BA/BT/SW. Why they keep the charade up I have no clue.

Just make Marines/Eldar/Inquisition (even the dark ones) into their own 1 codex and explain why taking HQ "X" gives you the ability to choose "Y" as troops or which units "X" gives you but not "Z".

Making people wait for PROLONGED periods of time is really kind of stupid.

Chaos (all forces - Marines, Daemons, Renegage) - 1 book.
Marines (all 32 flavors) - 1 book
Eldar (5+1 flavors, and those that eat their young) - 1 book
IG/Inquisition/Witch Hunters - 1 book
Orks (Oh yeah, we're already in one book - nvm)
Alien Forces (Tau, Nids, Necrons) - 1 book

Have a release schedule every two months each book would get new accessory sprues/models.

Ah, wouldn't life be grand . . . .

I posted this in the other thread (there's two on this subject)..

I found this AWFUL. Second worst book, after Battle for the Abyss.

- It's another SPASSE MARINEZ HURRRR book, constant action instead of the intrigue we expect from HH books

- Mike Lee's writing style is confused - it's hard to keep track of the fight, especially space battles. It's also just plain BAD in places.

- The seem to know everything already about the warp, warp taint, psychic powers and the warp etc. The only thing they don't specifically mention is Chaos gods.

- Lion El'Jonson has absolutely no personality

- Nobody has any personality

- I think the way the Dark Angels talk to each other is a radically different from other HH books. They sound like joking guardsmen, instead of serious warrior monks. They're DARK ANGELS, not space wolves...

- The plot was completely pointless, the laboured and silly 'twist' at the end renders the whole book pointless. Besides, this event isn't mentioned anywhere else in fluff.

- Basically seemed like an excuse for another Space Marine Action Novel, with the 30th Millenium setting and Dark Angels conspiracy thown on afterwards.

Yup, really bad. And I actually quite liked Descent of Angels. Although it had hardly any Space Marines or Imperium, it was much more evocative of the 30th Millenium...

Descent of Angels made for a good insight into Caliban, something most welcome for once. I've gotten Fallen Angels today and I do hope that it can live up to its predecessor. If not, well there's always "A Thousand Sons" and "Prospero Burns" to look forward to early next year. Maybe Mike should stick to fantasy, I found the first Nagash novel a refreshing read and the main motivation for me to get interested in fantasy again.

Uriels_Flame wrote:We all know what rules would make vanilla marines DA/BA/BT/SW. Why they keep the charade up I have no clue.

Just make Marines/Eldar/Inquisition (even the dark ones) into their own 1 codex and explain why taking HQ "X" gives you the ability to choose "Y" as troops or which units "X" gives you but not "Z".

Making people wait for PROLONGED periods of time is really kind of stupid.

Chaos (all forces - Marines, Daemons, Renegage) - 1 book.
Marines (all 32 flavors) - 1 book
Eldar (5+1 flavors, and those that eat their young) - 1 book
IG/Inquisition/Witch Hunters - 1 book
Orks (Oh yeah, we're already in one book - nvm)
Alien Forces (Tau, Nids, Necrons) - 1 book

Have a release schedule every two months each book would get new accessory sprues/models.

Ah, wouldn't life be grand . . . .

I have said it before and Ill say it again, I would gladly pay $50-$75 for a all loyalist marine book if it means Dark Angels get their uniqe special rules (fallen hunting, ect), real special characters, (WTF is our head Chaplin!?), and equipment balanced with the rest of the SM forces. Same goes for all 3 Inquisition armies, considering they basically carry the same rules save for their back up forces (GK, SB, DW)

The aliens do need their own books though. Nids, Necrons, and Tau players would be pissed that they have to buy a book where they cant use 2/3 of the rules, as opposed to say Chaos, marines, and inquisition where you could use pretty much you entire collection as a different army, should you fancy.

Eldar/Dark Eldar is a tough call though, unless the new DE book makes them almost identical in terms of tactics and unit selection, this book may want to stay separate.

But yea on topic, I loved the DoA book, and as soon as Im done with the Titanicus, Ill get to Fallen Angels. Hope its not to much of a let down as others have said...

I remember int the days of Space Marine (what is now known as Epic for newbies), the army lists were boxes of cards (each card was a unit) with two armies per box.

So...

Space Marines and Imperial Guard
Eldar and Chaos
Orks and Squ... (oops almost said it)
I think Tyranids got a separte release later on

Worked quite well for Epic. Just throwing it out there...

EDIT - Sorry, just realised that was completely off topic. I'm blaming the two posts above.

Uriels_Flame wrote:We all know what rules would make vanilla marines DA/BA/BT/SW. Why they keep the charade up I have no clue.

Just make Marines/Eldar/Inquisition (even the dark ones) into their own 1 codex and explain why taking HQ "X" gives you the ability to choose "Y" as troops or which units "X" gives you but not "Z".

Making people wait for PROLONGED periods of time is really kind of stupid.

Chaos (all forces - Marines, Daemons, Renegage) - 1 book.
Marines (all 32 flavors) - 1 book
Eldar (5+1 flavors, and those that eat their young) - 1 book
IG/Inquisition/Witch Hunters - 1 book
Orks (Oh yeah, we're already in one book - nvm)
Alien Forces (Tau, Nids, Necrons) - 1 book

Have a release schedule every two months each book would get new accessory sprues/models.

Ah, wouldn't life be grand . . . .

Why are Orks and Eldar not considered Alien forces then?

I'm about halfway through with this book, and am kind of dissapointed. The writing style is really erratic, and the action sequences are really confused. I was holding out high hopes for this book, because I wanted to have the DA background explored and the vendetta with the fallen detailed. The book makes an attempt to do so, but the writing is so crappy. It seems like Mike Lee and Ben Counter are sharing the same box of crayons to write their books.

I'm currently reading Descent of Angels which has inspired me on my current Dark Angels Sub-Chapter of "The Order of Angels" basically falling back towards the roots of "The Order" in Space marine form. I'm really liking it so far and I'm getting a much better understanding of Lion El'Jonson.

A lot of people bust on the guy and the Chapter as a whole. Some say they should go Chaos or are Chaos linked and the like. Some say they have no place amongst the Imperium... to dark and Shady. I feel differently about it all honestly. They're a Chapter very dedicated to pride and honor from what I see. They're the only Chapter touched by Chaos to such an extent and still -not- fall. Sure, some left (either with Chaos or simply not to follow the path of the Chapter) but many remained. As strange as it sounds they feel incredibly German in culture. (The whole Verbatim thing most definitely). Being of original German ancestry and looking back on the German past, I find ties together. As strange as this sounds, think out this: During WWII not every single German was a Nazi, however many were seen as such. Non-Nazi Germans after WWII would still hold that burden of self hatred and anger for the atrocities their country committed. Such things they'd rather deal with themselves than have others deal with for them. Read an interesting statement in a book once about the whole ordeal. "Those in the West [Western Germany] were allowed to forget and become apart of a collective whole with the Communists. Us in the East are allowed to hold our burden close so as not to allow such things to ever happen again. We know the sins of our people and will work to repay back that debt to the world." I kind of see that equating to the Dark Angels dealing with the Fallen. They don't want the Imperium dealing with the sins of their past.

And as for the Lion, he makes more sense now. He wasn't cold hearted or someone waiting on the sidelines to see who would come out on top. He was incredibly intelligent and tactically sound. He was a warrior through and through, but the one thing he truly wasn't was a people person. He felt Outcasted from Humanity even if he did love it. As such he didn't know how to interact with that which he wanted to protect. He couldn't read people's intentions the same and was emotionally misguided. Perhaps he was someone who trusted and cared -too- much to the point allowing others to twist him in negative directions.

Well, enough of my ramblings.

Finished the book earlier today, I enjoyed it as a whole but was hoping it would end with the war on Caliban (I guess that will be the next book in the Horus Heresy/dark angel story line).


*SPOILER WARNING*
As for the twist right at the end I'm not sure I'm a fan of it. It either makes Lion El'Jonson extremely dumb for putting the weapon right into enemy hands or makes you ask if he's hoping to manipulate the situation so he comes out on top for the Imperiums benefit

Finished reading Fallen Angels last night. I wasn't all too impressed with the novel. I would give it 7 out of 10. I mean I did read through it within a week.

Likes:
The Battle Fleet Gothic battle was pretty good.
The storylines about the two main characters Zaphrel & Nemiel were pretty good.
I did like the ending how Zaphrel Librarian was tricked into helping Luther.

Dislikes:
I disliked the switching back and forth between the two stories. It could have been better.
Calbinite story wasn't as exciting as the Diamite storyline to me.
Some of the battles could have been longer. I mean the last battle on Diamite seemed pretty short.

I hope the next Heresy stories are better.

Alucard56 wrote:*SPOILER WARNING*
As for the twist right at the end I'm not sure I'm a fan of it. It either makes Lion El'Jonson extremely dumb for putting the weapon right into enemy hands or makes you ask if he's hoping to manipulate the situation so he comes out on top for the Imperiums benefit

I'm thinking it's the latter. With the way he's talking to Perterabo about him(Lion) being the next leader, you kind of get a glimpse of how big a douche bag Lion really is. I wouldn't put it past him being so ambitious as try playing both sides of the conflict.

*spelling edit*