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I noticed alot of people hate dawn of war.
do you.

I really don't care.

Mech Eldar. I don't deploy.

Guard.

I have tanks with front AV14 and spotlights as standard. I dont care about night fighting.

Just don't deploy if you have any slight mobility.... Never.

We dont even use it. Its honestly a stupid scenario.

the fact that most people avoid it all together by not deploying is another point in the 'hate' category. What's the point of the scenario if many side-step it completely anyway?

It was kind of weird to do with daemons against daemons XD

I'm not a huge fan of any scenario when I can be assaulted on the first turn.

It's basically a nail in the coffin to stand and shoot armies.

depends what army I'm playing. Hate it with my SOB love it with my DE.

JourneyPsycheOut wrote:It's basically a nail in the coffin to stand and shoot armies.

Wait, that means you have to... adapt?

Love dawn of war. It's the rule that escalation should have been in 4th.

Yeah, I rather like it. Instant Frag Order!

It really makes me (and/or my opponent) have to think. Sure its frustrating when you have a plan and can actually really screw up my/his lists but sometimes outta that chaos have come some of the better (or at least wilder) games I've played.

I love Dawn of War. I want it to have my babies.

Deuce11 wrote:the fact that most people avoid it all together by not deploying is another point in the 'hate' category. What's the point of the scenario if many side-step it completely anyway?

Well, you do pay a penalty for side-stepping it - namely allowing your opponent to establish control of the board more easily. That said, you can side-step any scenario, right? And yet, the ability to hold your forces in reserve is an important counter to such armies as daemons or drop-pods. An army with great initial mobility, but poor subsequent mobility (like pod marines) is a huge advantage if your opponent is forced to deploy. But, if they're allowed to wait and see where some of the pods land, this advantage can turn against them. It's all part of balance.

Sarge wrote:I'm not a huge fan of any scenario when I can be assaulted on the first turn.

There is no scenario where you can be assaulted on the first turn if you deploy in such a way as to make that your primary concern. You can always back further away than the minimum for the mission, or, as stated above, not deploy.

JourneyPsycheOut wrote:It's basically a nail in the coffin to stand and shoot armies.

Stand and shoot armies are dumb. To quote a much better general than I, "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man." - Patton.

And, even having said that, I fail to see why you are calling it a nail in the coffin. Is it because your opponent can start further across the board than before? If it is, this is balanced by the spearhead deployment style, where a stand-and-shoot army can begin the game nearly 36" from the opponent. Surely this must be a nail in the coffin of assault armies.

Is it because you have to walk on so many units instead of shooting on the first turn? First-turn shooting is largely lost to night-fight anyway.


I find Dawn of War to be an important balancing factor in 5th ed. Does it hurt stand&shoot armies? Sure, but no more than spearhead hurts assault armies. And the combination of the two means that a balanced army has a better overall chance of success.

If your gaming group gets rid of Dawn of War missions, then you'll see that the stand&shoot armies win more over time, as they have no weakness. Likewise, if you get rid of spearhead, assault armies will win more. Keeping both of them in the mix means that your assault armies are forced to plan for when they have further than 24" to cover, and keeping Dawn of War in the mix means that shooty armies need to plan for when their opponents are in their face right off the bat. Neither of these are bad things.


What I dislike is Capture&Control. I've never seen so many draws as with that mission...

I don't mind it. My IG Infantry blobs love it and the nids go crazy when you give them 1st turn charging potential.

If anything sucks it's Capture and Control.

its sooooo easy to win Cap and control, how can you hate it?

oh wait, not everyone plays Space Wolves.

I love Dawn of War with my Black Templars. It's one of the few situations where their special ability to take a LRC transport for their basic troop choice is useful.

I love DoW as pointed out it counters so many builds. Stand & Shoot armies are pretty much dead in anyways. I have found that TOs that don't include DoW tend to be a bit biased to Stand & Shoot armies.

G

It does exactly what it is supposed to do - require armies to be built with balance in mind.

So does Capture and control, although in a much different way.

I agree with previous posts: If you have a problem with keeping things in reserve... you probably haven't tried it yet against a non-mobile army.

It's a deployment that forces people to rethink they're very standard deployment strats. It's the fog of war, it's the unpredictability of battle, it's... whatever other overused cliche you want to throw down.

Don't whine, be a player and adapt.

My Grey Knights LOVE DoW, but not for the first-turn assault potential; they are a move-and-shoot army.

wait wait... isn't DOW a deployment type? and isn't capture and control a mission? Why are you comparing these like they are the same thing? the DOW vs. Spearhead is definitely a better arguement.

Demogerg wrote:its sooooo easy to win Cap and control, how can you hate it?

oh wait, not everyone plays Space Wolves.

QFT. SPESS PUPPEH DROOP PAWDZ!

Personally I don't mind the scenario..., unless i'm using my Necrons against a pure CC ork army with them in trucks... first turn they drive, jump out, assault and i'm dead... big fun!...