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So I rewrote the list to try and implement the advise given

HQ:

Abbadon
275 points

ELITE:

4x Chaos Terminators Chainfist and Icon of Tzeentch
170 points

Landraider as dedicated transport with daemonic possesion
240 points

TROOPS:

10x Khorne Berzerkers Skull Champ with PW and melta bombs ridding in a rhino with extra armor
295 points

10x Khorne Berzerkers Skull Champ with PW and melta bombs ridding in a rhino with extra armor
295 points

9x Khorne Berzerkers Skull Champ with PW and melta bombs ridding in a rhino with extra armor
274 points

10x Khorne Berzerkers Skull Champ with PW and melta bombs
245 points

5x CSM 1x Melta, Aspiring champ with PF mounted in a rhino
160

Heavy Support

Landraider with daemonic possession
240 Points

Defiler 2x DCCW
150 points

Defiler 2x DCCW
150 points

TOTAL: 2494 Points
This gives me 5 scoring units and alot less KPs, this gives me 6 points left over I could trade in one of the skull champs pw and melta bomb combos for a pf and only be 1 point short of the cap.

C&C desperately needed the tourney is this weekend.

It might be an idea to stick Abaddon with a unit of Berzerkers in the Land Raider instead of Terminators, so that the whole unit is Fearless if he fluffs his Daemon Weapon roll.

Nurglitch wrote:It might be an idea to stick Abaddon with a unit of Berzerkers in the Land Raider instead of Terminators, so that the whole unit is Fearless if he fluffs his Daemon Weapon roll.

I have been musing about that, but I cam to the conclusion that having Abbadon in a unit with a small foot print is a good idea as once he is out of his LR every pie plate and and high strength low ap shot the army has is gonna go strait for him, so having Termies with 4+ invulns and pw's I think will give him greater survivability.

Ran the numbers last year for a friend who ran a similiar lists and Zerkers point for point are the better option. What Abbadon doesn't kill the zerkers finish up especially on the charge thier is usually nothing left to strike back. He ran 3 LR's, 3-4 Rhinos, Zerkers, and plague marines with Meltas. Rhino's jump out front with smoke and Plagues to tarpit hunt other LR. Then Abbadon and Zerkers pick thier battles. Usually they wipe out the squad they charge then mount back up in thier LR to wipe out other squads. List took him to the Semi's then he was punked be DE
Dark lance raider spam.

I think you'd prefer a unit with a larger footprint, as that will allow Abbadon's unit to engage more units in combat, and it cannot be shot while in combat (well, except for stray blast markers...). More to the point, the small footprint means that he only has four extra wounds and can be taken down in a Sweeping Advance by a lucky enemy. It would suck to have his unit have their Resolve Weakened by a Psycker Battle Squad, be defeated in combat by some slight margin (or simply have a Morale check forced by casualties), and then be escorted off the board.

Another suggestions is that perhaps you should swap the Chaos Space Marine squad for Daemonic Possession and Havoc Launchers on all of your other Rhinos.

I will play around with the Zerkers Idea since I already havea squad of nine and i can just bump the rhino to the squad of 10 that is supposed to be in the LR.

Those termies are pretty good for Vehicle hunting but I suppose i could drop the vanilla marines max out the termie squad and give them a couple of combi meltas to fill that role a bit better.

Wrapping combat is easy the basses on termies are quit large so they can still wrap 3-4 units in combat but the zerkers being fearless is a great point loosing Abbadon to some guard psykers would piss me off.

I will try not to copy your friend Lemartes, I prefer to have a list that is at the very least a bit different then other peoples lists.

Remember that Abaddon counts as two models, so only eight Berzerkers (including Skull Champion) can fit in the Land Raider with him.

If you're going to use the Terminators for vehicle hunting, I think you'd be better off with a couple of squads of Chosen in Rhinos. Given them a couple of Meltas, some Power Weapons, an Icon of Tzeentch/Nurgle, and go hunting (give those Rhinos the Combi-Meltas and Daemonic Possession though).

Just thought I would throw his list out thier for ideas. I definatley think your on the right track. Defilers are either real brutal and tough to deal with or just get poped early but you need at least two to be effective.

Chosen x2
5 Chosen w/Two Melta Guns, Two Flamethrowers, Power Weapon, Icon of Chaos Glory
1 Rhino w/Extra Armour, Combi-Melta
205

Actually, if you take my advice to liquidate that Chaos Space Marine squad, then you can put some more points into the Chosen squad, adding a Champion to hold the Power Weapon, maybe upgrade the Icon to that of one of the Dark Powers (Tzeentch or Nurgle is best for a primarily shooting unit), perhaps upgrade the Power Weapon to a Power Fist, and add a couple of more bodies to the squads.

HQ
Abbadon

ELITE
Chosen Chaos Space Marines
8 Chosen w/Two Melta Guns, Two Flamethrowers, Power Weapon, Icon of Chaos Glory
1 Rhino w/Extra Armour, Combi-Melta

Chosen Chaos Space Marines
8 Chosen w/Two Melta Guns, Two Flamethrowers, Power Weapon, Icon of Chaos Glory
1 Rhino w/Extra Armour, Combi-Melta

TROOPS:
Khorne Berzerkers
1 Skull Champion w/Power Weapon and Melta Bombs
9 Khorne Berzerkers
1 Rhino with Daemonic Possession, Havoc Launcher

Khorne Berzerkers
1 Skull Champion w/Power Weapon and Melta Bombs
9 Khorne Berzerkers
1 Rhino with Daemonic Possession, Havoc Launcher

Khorne Berzerkers
1 Skull Champion w/Power Weapon and Melta Bombs
9 Khorne Berzerkers
1 Rhino with Daemonic Possession, Havoc Launcher

Khorne Berzerkers
1 Skull Champion w/Power Weapon and Melta Bombs
7 Khorne Berzerkers

Heavy Support:

Chaos Landraider
w/Daemonic Possession

Defiler 2x DCCW
w/Two Extra Close Combat Weapons

Defiler 2x DCCW
w/Two Extra Close Combat Weapons

Nurglitch wrote:Remember that Abaddon counts as two models, so only eight Berzerkers (including Skull Champion) can fit in the Land Raider with him.

Ya wasn't thinking there will change that as necessary.

the most recent list may have too many chosen, they are a point sink. if you want them to pop tanks then get 2 squads of 5 with melta. no need for the extra bodies

The one thing I don't like about your list is the terminators. A good idea might be to give them some TLC and a Heavy Flame and IoS to rip apart other good assault units using their good initiative. Even IoK but I don't like IoT really if they are riding in a LR.

Also, one LR means a popped LR... it screams here comes Abby so immobilise me now... I dunno just thinking since the entire army is CC any way why not take out defilers for a second LR. the zerks hold their own against all troops. Its their lack of tank amd dreadnaught killiness that is their drawback. Hopefully thats what the chosen are for...

Deuce11 wrote:Also, one LR means a popped LR... it screams here comes Abby so immobilise me now... I dunno just thinking since the entire army is CC any way why not take out defilers for a second LR. the zerks hold their own against all troops. Its their lack of tank amd dreadnaught killiness that is their drawback. Hopefully thats what the chosen are for...

Your looking at Nurglitches list, not the OP's list lol ;D.

EDIT: Reason I mentioned this is because we probably should be helping the OP not the guy who posts in his thread

He has 2x LR.

Also @ OP

You might want to think about vindicators instead of Defilers due to defilers seem to be susceptible to heavy weapons while a Vindicator can take some major hits and keep on truckin.

-:{forehead meets palm}:-

Deuce11 wrote:-:{forehead meets palm}:-

Ah well good advise on his list at least =P.

Here is a change I am thinking of implementing ditching another rhino have one of the Khorne squads ride in the Termies LR with extra points I can give each of my Khorne squads a personal icon, I hold the termies in reserve and use the icon to drop them where they will do the most damage.

Also I will have a few points left over and if I change the IoT to IoS I can also max out my CSM squad and if I twist points just right get them a lascannon so they can sit on an objective in their rhino and lob a lascannon shot every turn across the board it isn't great but at least they will contribute aside from holding a random objective on my side of the board.

Or instead of maxing out the csm squad I can get a few more PF's in my list I still want at least some of my skull champs to have a pw as an init 5 strength 5 pw and 5 attacks is nothing to scoff at but the pf's are nice If I get charged by a Dread and have no hope of hurting it any other way and melta bombs are horrible inconsistent against walkers.

As to the vindicator Idea I have had my defiler do better for me int he past longer range with their primary weapon, it still picks up marines, and should it's cannon get blown off it isn;t useless it can still charge in and start kicking ass. The vindi and defiler are similar in points and the defiler just fits my play style better.

Any of this sound viable?

Deuce11 wrote:-:{forehead meets palm}:-

Mod:

This is a good example of the completely unhelpful type of post we discourage on Dakka Dakka.

If you think an idea is stupid, please give a reasoned explanation why, then we can all learn something.

Zhetsuken wrote:Here is a change I am thinking of implementing ditching another rhino have one of the Khorne squads ride in the Termies LR with extra points I can give each of my Khorne squads a personal icon, I hold the termies in reserve and use the icon to drop them where they will do the most damage.

Also I will have a few points left over and if I change the IoT to IoS I can also max out my CSM squad and if I twist points just right get them a lascannon so they can sit on an objective in their rhino and lob a lascannon shot every turn across the board it isn't great but at least they will contribute aside from holding a random objective on my side of the board.

Or instead of maxing out the csm squad I can get a few more PF's in my list I still want at least some of my skull champs to have a pw as an init 5 strength 5 pw and 5 attacks is nothing to scoff at but the pf's are nice If I get charged by a Dread and have no hope of hurting it any other way and melta bombs are horrible inconsistent against walkers.

As to the vindicator Idea I have had my defiler do better for me int he past longer range with their primary weapon, it still picks up marines, and should it's cannon get blown off it isn;t useless it can still charge in and start kicking ass. The vindi and defiler are similar in points and the defiler just fits my play style better.

Any of this sound viable?

I wouldn't DS the termies. Another thing you could do is give the termies all TLC + IoK / IoS, that is just a nasty nasty NASTY unit that is just devastating in CC. Giving the SC PF's is not a bad idea. It's all up to you though. I might go ahead and do it for walker and vehicle killing abilities.

As to the defiler thing: I understand and if it works for you then go for it.