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I think it's not. I played 3 games with it and in each it only killed 2-3 troops the opponent had. It barely even did anything to nids.



EDIT- need to know what you all think before taking it out of my list.

It really depends. Against Orks and Nids, it is awesome, as it's ability to both bunch through their armour AND ignore cover is very powerful.

However, I vote in-between, because while much shorter range, the vindicator is a lot more killy, and can deal with a lot more threats.

Sure, they are great for the points. The ability to deny cover saves is always a good thing in 5th edition. They are not MEQ killers but are great for horde armies.

I voted yes; Tau, tyranid, and Orks (and Dark Eldar to some extent), along with Eldar all rely on cover saves to keep them alive and ticking.

Your ability to negate that cover save is absolutely brutal. Keep in mind that it is *NOT* an MEQ killer however. If you're only killing 1-2 troops per turn with it, what are you shooting at?

Dashofpepper wrote:I voted yes; Tau, tyranid, and Orks (and Dark Eldar to some extent), along with Eldar all rely on cover saves to keep them alive and ticking.

Your ability to negate that cover save is absolutely brutal. Keep in mind that it is *NOT* an MEQ killer however. If you're only killing 1-2 troops per turn with it, what are you shooting at?

I fought orks and nids each game I played with it and it did next to nothing. Guess it's just my bad scatter rolls. even when using it as ordance, it still scatters like 6" for me.

Not needing LOS is nice too.

It's a nice anti-infantry weapon if you're short elsewhere in your army, particularly for the ability to sit outside of Line of Sight and shell people.

It might be something to mention what is often called the "Rule of Three", whereby a single token of a unit type (say, one Whirlwind...) is an annoyance, two will be taken seriously, and three will be a destructive menace.

Maybe the problem is that you're not taking enough Whirlwinds to make taking a Whirlwind a good choice.

It's a bargain at 85 points. If it dies, it dies. Denying cover saves to lightly armored models is huge.

The Whirlwind is great, especially for its points.

dietrich wrote:It's a bargain at 85 points. If it dies, it dies. Denying cover saves to lightly armored models is huge.

for the points, I could get 2 more termies in my squad and kill more and survive longer.

orkishlyorkish wrote:

dietrich wrote:It's a bargain at 85 points. If it dies, it dies. Denying cover saves to lightly armored models is huge.

for the points, I could get 2 more termies in my squad and kill more and survive longer.

But those termies can't shoot from 48" away behind cover can they If you really are scattering wide, just aim for groups that are bunched together. You are bound to hit SOMETHING.

Really? I'd like to see two terminators kill 5 Pathfinders dug in 2+ cover at the top of a building in a single turn.

Show me what codex has those Terminators and I'll ditch my Whirlwind.

Whirlwinds are great against T3/SV4/5+ troops. They absolutely murder any Fire Warriors dumb enough not to be hiding in a Devilfish, and they layeth the smack down on gaunts & Genestealers.

The only reason I never took them in my old (late 3rd/early 4th ed)) Salamanders army was because of an unhealthy love for Vindicators. I alwys took 3, even though it's really not as effective points-wise as a Whirlwind. Not needing LoS is HUGE

The issue is true line of sight.

Before when you could hide them behind area terrain they were better. Now, until real 5th ed terrain is made in more places, everyone on the table can shoot at them.

If they had AR 12 or 13 it would be a slightly different issue.

I like them, although they're not as effective against AV3+.

Don't be too reliant on hiding them and firing indirect, you'll find you hit much less. Remember that you can move 6" and still fire directly.

A vindicator is much more killy but it's also very predictable. I tend to swap between the two - keeps my opponents on their toes.