Gitsplitta's Unified Painting Theory (3/18: Adepticon prep - gaslands cruiser)

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**BLACKHAND**

Same as the chapter symbols I think it would be better to cut them out of plasticard than paint them on or use decals, you could always stick the decals onto a peice of plasticard then cut them out to get the 3d look and not have to freehand the design?

**Gitsplitta**

For those of you confused by poda_t's post... he/she (no offense intended, just can't tell) is responding to an early discussion on the blog where I talk about a long-held idea of putting a connoness in the command squad as part of the checks and balances the inquisition placed on the Mantis Warriors during their crusade. Interesting perspective poda... food for thought.

My other comments will have to wait, have a meeting to chair (sigh).

**Battle Brother Lucifer**

poda_t wrote:Im thinking I might run her as something of a commissar, and give her vengeance rounds or inferno bolts. A canonness is just... a VERY obvious model, so unless you are also fielding a squad of sisters who are her aides/retainers, I would insist on running her much like a commissar.

The fluff for my "chapter" is that a series of forces were sent in to mop up a chaos attack. While there they fell into a warp storm, and not knowing how long they would survive pooled their resources--after they took substantial losses. Several marine companies and SoB were sent in and hardly any made it out at the end. At the end though, they were mixed, and had dabbled in heresy because some level of hybridization of the gene-seed products had occurred and there were a few female proto-astartes. Additionally marines had 'cross contaminated' their gene-seed by borrowing missing parts from the other chapters present. Over the course of the fighting, suits of armor were lost and replacements were obtained through the ritual purgation of traitor suits.

I would say she is a special character that operates outside your FoC, but otherwise acts like an HQ choice. The trick is to make her reasonable. For example, look at the SM characters and try to build them from using one of the basic HQ choices. After taking all obtainable equipment, and borrowing weapon costs from other entries, a space marine captain comes out to 190 points, and lacks the doctrines Vulkan brings, as well as Vulkan's Mantle... So any bonus you give to your custom special character either needs to be taken from whatver book the SoB have, or at least make the point cost appropriate. I have seen people claim that what should have been a 300+ point model was worth only around 125, disregard that it has WS 7 BS 7, T5, already comes with a full servo harness and 3 attacks base, with artificer armor and an iron halo, along with master crafted power weapon and master crafted plasma pistol.... oh, and the space marine is made of awesome and win so he has initiative 6......... I remember VERY well the horrendous attempt that I came across of trying to make a fan-made "balanced" Iron Warriors codex.

Whatever role the cannonness fills, it should not be a basic runt. Alternatively, run her and her retainers as a command squad, less the apothecary, and she replaces the champion. Maybe run them as an independent squad? Whatever you do mate, I like some non-Standard Template Design thinking. Cheers and good luck with whatever you do.

I have no idea what you are talking about, but do you remember that horrible attempt at making like, a 5 chaos god's champion..or something? It had the most abominable rules. Someone math hammered it would take like 20 turns of like, 20 tanks shooting at it to kill it.
[EDIT] Now I understand. My question still stands.

**inmygravenimage**

Yeah, I'm with BH. Incidentally, WIP of Mantis Vanguard guy up in my blog (shameless self-promotion...)

**Lennysmash**

Chapterhouse wrote:Hm...

You have me thinking.. do you think there would be a demand for resin "Arrows" "Chevrons" and "X" icons for vehicles?

I think you can find roman numerals and arabic numbers in brass...

If you are referring to squad designation symbols then I'd have to say a definite yes. Especially a set that would match the rhino top hatch/doors, As well as some smaller ones for side hatches/ back doors/ LS and Bikes. Also some Roman numerals for tanks would be good, just the I, V and the X that way people could just make up their own stuff.

The etched brass is great but it can be very pricey and doesn't always give good definition.

**Nowlan**

If you do decide to use decals, be sure to very carefully (with a very sharp blade) trim all the extra clear material away from the image (some water transfers have at least a 1mm area of clear decal around the image itself), and be damn sure to use micro-sol and micro-set when applying them. It also helps if you put a small amount of gloss coat where you're applying them. Personally, I use a small burst of future floor wax thinned with water applied via airbrush to the place the decal will sit. it gives it something smooth to bond to. Any shine generated by this just gets covered by the sealer coat I do after the decals have been applied (which is before weathering).

**Lennysmash**

The Mantis heraldry could be created out of plasticard as others have said but I think it would be kinda cool to create a spray template myself, similar to the one Eggroll used for his tanks.

On the decal issue I'd try it out, Micro sol can easily be used to remove the decals from the model with no damage if you do decide that they aren't in fact for you. You can get some great litany decals from the SoB decal sheet. Personally I think they'd be superb for a recently returned crusader fleet.

**BLACKHAND**

Lennysmash wrote:The Mantis heraldry could be created out of plasticard as others have said but I think it would be kinda cool to create a spray template myself, similar to the one Eggroll used for his tanks.

Now that is a damn good idea

**Sageheart**

you shoudl totally have a canoness in the command squad, i must have missed that, but its a great idea!

If you do have symbols i would make them with plasticard as others have said, i dont think the decals really do the model justice. Lennysmash's idea with making a cutout for spraying sounds awesome too!

**Lennysmash**

Sageheart wrote: Lennysmash's idea with making a cutout for spraying sounds awesome too!

I can't take the credit its something I've seen on other blogs.

**The Good Green**

I have always hated decals. I think they are a great idea, but I can always see the invisible paper line around the decal. It ruins it for me. If you can do decals better than I have seen (in person - plenty of pics look fine) then go for it - simple and easy, right?

My vote is no decal. ;P

-But yes Canoness! That would be awesome. I'd love to see how you handle that challenge too. Such a stand out character in a SM army.

**Lennysmash**

@ The Good Green, I know what you mean but by using Micro sol and Micro set you remove alot of that surrounding edge's visibility. Then once the miniature has been varnished it is totally vanished.

**Gitsplitta**

OK guys... finally have a chance to weigh in on the decal question.

I had not intended to do the MW symbol in decals, I was going to execute it in plasticard on the round doors (natural since the old symbol was on a yellow circle. However the idea of making a spray template is *really* intriguing... I'll have to put some serious thought into that. I think a simple stencil made in masking tape would do the trick, that way it would adhere tightly and be less likely to bleed through the edges. It had better work perfectly though because there's no fixing it (the doors are gradients too).

My main question (and sorry for not being clearer) is for the accessory markings... numbers, imperial symbols, that kind of stuff. I've done enough model railroad work that I know I can pull off a decal and make it look reasonably good. Chapterhouse's advice is spot-on with handling decals. I'm pretty sure I picked up one of the sheets of cut brass imperial eagles from FW, so those are an option that I really like... but not being very familiar with tanks and such I wasn't sure about the rest. As with the camo on the tranquility vets, having extra little bits can help focus attention away from foibles and mistakes on the model, improving the overall effect. Then again if they are poorly placed they can just make it look cheap and tawdry.

@BBL: I LOLd... a lot.... at that pic! Your valiant effort at drawing a mantis head on the door was wonderful! My only comment is that I would not put a transfer on any gradient surface as touching up the edges by hand would be nearly impossible. So the front and back wheel wells (by the headlights) are fine, but the front or back hatches are not.

@Chapterhouse: I would think so because they'd be so much easier to deal with than transfers or hand painting them. I'd certainly use them if they were available.

I highly approve of graven's Mantis Warrior WIP. You'd all better go see it quick!

To everyone else, sorry for not responding individually but I did read and appreciate your comments. It's all percolating around in my head right now so we'll see how things sort out in there (you can never be sure).

And yes, the canoness has always been... and will continue to be a part of my command squad. It's just too fluffy an idea to let go.

**Moltar**

Personally, after the past couple mini's I've used transfers on, I'm ready to call it quits with decals all together. I agree with The Good Green in that, the clear plastic outline left around the symbol drives me up the wall. When it comes down to it, I suppose it's just preference. If you feel confident that you could pull of the symbols and markings by freehand, then I would go that route, especially since you're not going to be able to really soften those clear edges over any of the gradiant lighting. I know I'm a few posts behind in saying so, but your tanks are looking awesome and I'm sure which ever route you choose, you won't disappoint. Good luck, Gits!

On a side note. Noticing your location in Madison, does your love for the green and gold come from your most blatant inspiration:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_LNhJJWWBTdo/SIxjApVCElI/AAAAAAAADPw/egJMjQA-cYo/s1600-h/SkyBox_Green_Bay_Packers.jpg ?

**Lennysmash**

Hmm, taping off the symbol could work Gits but as a matter of consistency and ease I would have thought that a template would be preferable. Of course as you've stated you would have to do something to ensure that it didn't bleed.

Obviously Les, Eggroll, Vet Sgt Ezekiel would be good places to start me thinks.

**Battle Brother Lucifer**

Gits, glad you liked the pic

I didn't assume you would make a mantis transfer, I just wanted to draw one.

**MajorTom11**

Cut the symbol out of thin plasticard to make the spray template, reusable and not as vulnerable as cardboard... You could design (or have someone design) an eps version of the symbol for you, and then you could print out various sizes on a sheet, stick it to the plasticard, and cut out a few variations so you have options for dreads etc too. A bit of work, but at the end of the day, you will have a spray decal template to leverage on the rest of your army, plus an eps version to print onto a decal transfer sheet too!

**Gitsplitta**

Moltar wrote:On a side note. Noticing your location in Madison, does your love for the green and gold come from your most blatant inspiration?

If I were to paint a chapter based on my pro football fandom, it would be navy blue and orange... (Chicago's my home town).

A follow up question...

Regardless of method... what symbols/writing/numbers are appropriate where on one of these?? I have no clue.

**Vitruvian XVII**

Usually, you have the squads number and their corresponding Squad symbols nd possibly the Company Markings/ Number.

e.g. 5th Tactical Squad from 3rd Company would have an arrow, a 5 and 3rd companys heraldry/ marking.

**MajorTom11**

Classic versions said imperial eagle with lighting bolts on the side doors and/or front and back, chapter symbol on turret.

For me, I think you laid out your iconography perfectly the first time around, mantis heads on doors, squad markings minimally elsewhere.

**Lennysmash**

Holy mother why didn't I think of it earlier. Gits get in contact with Winterdyne on the transfer front as well. I'm pretty sure he is still creating custom transfers for commission.

**Gitsplitta**

I think I found transfers that will do the trick for the squad markings & dug out & primed some of the etched brass double headed eagles.

Tonight's progress... took out the airbrush and painted up Thing 2's Pinewood Derby car for cub scouts. He even worked the airbrush by himself for a good part of it. My contribution was a wide center stripe painted in a gradient from edges to center. Looks pretty neat!

Back to the razorback's tomorrow.

**fatty**

Yep, used to cut rice abd grass, and then adopted by the ninja since ninja, were, basically, peasants .

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Sorry but pump your breaks or be a crashtest duummy.

ninja's are not and i repeat are not peasants! they are Samurai who havent taken there VOW of not killing for money. they are just samurai who kill for money and there way of fighting is different. where a samurai would look for a opening in a opponent and kill him the ninja would dash in and out of combat seeking a way too kill.

back on track say no too transfers personally i hate them. but if you want to do brass i read a tread of some guy making obseenly (thats a word) large numbers of titans i belevie he has 4 of them build. but he has a bud that does brass etching.

**Gitsplitta**

New avatar to represent my most recent endeavors. Don't worry, The Gitsplitta will return eventually. :-)

Any ideas what color I should make the raised areas around the air vents on the sides? That's probably my last major decision before moving on to detailing. I thought of both silver-metallic and gold-metallic or red. Yellow is not out but very difficult because brush painted yellow will conflict stylistically with the airbrushed stuff, and air brushing those would be a really messy operation. I suppose black would also be appropriate, though I'm shying away from black in order to avoid looking too much like the Salamanders.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. - Gits

**Miss Dee**

Bell of lost souls has decals hidden, and bolter and chainsword.

**fatty**

i would go for gold just like the shouldor pad. it ties them together imho

**Sageheart**

yeah gold to tie it to the shoulder pad

**Gitsplitta**

Keep in mind guys, at the time that these are supposed to represent, there is NO gold chain on the pads... at this point there is only the standard pad (black head w/ red eyes on a yellow roundel).

So... 100 years in the future... gold. Right now, during the height of the Badab War... there's no direct tie-in.

**Sageheart**

i see what your saying, huh, then im not sure, maybe red since i like red, and it would be a nice way to add another color that'll go well with what you already have.

**inmygravenimage**

At the request/suggestion of the maestro, and feeling yhe katana love, here's my WIP for him. First attempt at doing eyes that way; making the wings suitably delicate will be tricky, I'm thinking of light drybrushes of turquoise and violet. Fairly happy thus far anyway :