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Alright guys, im trying to put together a 1750 list thats mainly fluff but would still hold its own in games. I love the idea of Khorne so im running something like this.

10x Khorne Zerkers
-Skull Champ w/ PF

10x Khorne Zerkers
-Skull Champ w/PF

9x Khorne Zerkers
-Skull Champ PF
-Khorne Lord attached to this unit

3x LR for my Zerkers


Alright from there i have a 5 man termie squad, a defiler, and 2 dreads as well as a rino.

are the dreads worth running? They seemed very interesting and fun to play so this is an option.

The defiler i had no luck with. Also to field the defiler i had to run the termies and take the LR as dedicated to free the heavy slot up...that sucked.

I love the 3 LR so im def. going to use them.

any suggestions or help would be awesome. I'm pretty confused as to what would actually work well. So far the LR/zerker Rush works well to get some early points. i just need something else to beat gak down and the Defiler doesnt really do it for me.

Thanks in advance

8 Berserkers is plenty, and it is the sacred number for Khorne.

Throw Kharn in one of the land raiders, a couple of defilers and a termicide squad or two and it will be fun to run. Put icons on the berserkers so the termies have a place to drop.
I never run dreads - even in fluff games, just too dangerous.

Don't do it! Dreads are fun, but only that. It is funny in a fun game when they wipe out that Obliterator squad you deepstruck to help them. It is not funny in a serious game when they spend 3 turns taking pot shots at your objective holder before finally moving off its deployment spot.

Khorne Berserkers don't make good objective holders. I don't think the list has enough hitting power to kill an entire army and make it back to the objectives in time. You'd have to be really careful, or use Khorne marked CSM. They can shoot and assault, and they carry Meltaguns that you desperately need. I'd swap atleast 1 Berserker squad into CSM and get the Terminators into the Landraider.

Warptimed Daemon Princes are awesome. Greater Daemons are great too, but you have to have non-powerfisted champs otherwise they get too expensive. Defilers are better fire support than melee units. Kharn is a great, hard hitting unit. Terminators are great for killing tough stuff too if you deck them out. Khorne Lords are great with dual Lightning Claws in Terminator armor. The Daemon Weapon is going to backfire almost as often as work, and much more often than work amazingly and he doesn't get any better at killing really tough units. You already have lots of stuff that kill MEQs, why spend the big points on his masochistic butt?

Dreads only have a 1/12 chance of endangering your units, on a roll of 6 they have to stay stationary and shoot twice, the first is towards the enemy, the second is decided randomly, so you have the same chance to get 2 turns worth of shooting in 1 turn. Competitive? maybe not. Worthless? Hell no.

What is wrong with taking a LR as dedicated?

i don't have my C:CSM in front of me. Do you need to have the CSM squads 10 strong before taking a second special weapon or is 5 enough? Raptors?

Can Havoks take melta guns?

I personally run a 5 man havoc sq with 4 meltas and a combi melta, works amazing, esp teaming them up with my PM who also have 2 meltas. You could make them a 10 man squad with a Khorne Icon and have lots of fun.
The only problem with doing that is that you lose a LR, same with taking defis, etc.

A couple of options that I have tried:

A 10 man squad of Chosen with 5 Flamers and Icon of Khorne, in a LR which was more or less pointless but lets them assault right away. This squad scored 42 hits on a Sternguard sq, thus killing it and f'ing up their Rhino. Chosen are always a good option because of their outflank ability and they can be kitted out however you like.

Try some Possesed in a LR. I've rolled a 1 with them and found that it helped better than anything else, getting an extra 12" move at the start of the game was awesome.

IDK but maybe Raptor sqds supporting/moving along with the LR could provide some sick results. Like the Chosen they can be kitted to do what ever you like, Korne for more attacks, Slaanesh to strike first, plus a PF or PW and 2 Flamers or Meltas or Plasmas, could have some fun times.

As far as HQ goes any DP with Warptime, maybe also with Wind? This combo, while kinda expensive, is crazy to use. Kharn also lets you ignore the effects of psychic powers used against whatever unit he's with. Don't worry about fluff with taking different marks on your lords cause you can just switch up the fluff, like saying your Mark of Nurgle "Khorne" DP has the extra T becasue of his daemon crafted Brass armour or what ever.

sory for the length, just started rambling, hope something helped.

I like where your head is at Billie.

To piggy back the OP, how is this list? I want to keep it at 1750. I play Heresy era themed armies so no DPs in this list. I don't have any points just trying to do it by memory...

HQ- Kharn

Elite- 5 LC Termis (poss all Asp. Champs) with MoK and LR

Elite- 5 Chosen with 4 melta (possibly 1 Fist) in a Rhino

Elite- 5 Chosen with 4 melta (possibly 1 Fist) in a Rhino

Troop- 7 Zerks (Kharn attaches hereto)

Troop- 8 Zerks incl. Skull champ with Fist

Heavy- LR

Heavy- LR


The sheer volume of CC attacks and good armor should do well against most army styles. The land raiders may not do a whole lot though and they need to take out some armor otherwise the chosen have far too much riding on them and the opponent will know that. I wish CSM had LR variants! Pintle-mounted multi-melta could be a necessity on the LRs.

I've found that adding Combi-meltas on every transport helps. While it can be a point sink, it can also prove effective since my guys are usually out of their tanks by turn 3 at the very latest and no one expects 3 Rhinos to blow up, well, anything!

Another idea is always a Defi. To me they are the most Khorney (i know that sounds bad) unit in the codex. And with the lack of anti-horde weapons in the list it might help, plus only hidden fists and dedicated shooting has ever stoped mine.

One trick that i used once or twice was putting Lucius and Kharn in the same unit, so that every 1 Kharn rolls I take on Lucius, and if he saves it than there is another S4 PW attack against the enemy.

Canonness Rory wrote:Dreads only have a 1/12 chance of endangering your units, on a roll of 6 they have to stay stationary and shoot twice, the first is towards the enemy, the second is decided randomly, so you have the same chance to get 2 turns worth of shooting in 1 turn. Competitive? maybe not. Worthless? Hell no.

What is wrong with taking a LR as dedicated?

Dreads that fire frenzy must shoot at the closest "UNIT", it does not specify friendly or enemy, so they in fact do have to shoot at your own guys first. You can mitigate this by putting 2xCCW's on then and running them in pairs. Then when they fire frenzy, they uselessy shoot each other with bolters. When they do get the charge though, they are pretty tough for only 100 points.

EDIT:

Deuce, I'm worried about the land raiders being popped by meltas, otherwise that would be a very solid list. For the cost of the two 'zerker land raiders, you could almost have two more berzerker squads in rhinos.

Billie Joe:

Nice call with Khärn and Lucius!

Edit: Actually, bad call. I looked it up and Lucius' armour causes the S4 Power Weapon hit on the unit causing the saved wound, e.i.: Khärn. Sorry.

Bad_Sheep37:

Something to think about is what the Dreadnoughts can harm, and where they might be to inflict that harm. A Dreadnought with two Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons and either Twin-Linked Bolters and/or a Heavy Flamethrower won't be able to harm another Dreadnought or a Land Raider if they stay side by side, and Twin-Linked Bolters won't even harm a Rhino.

But if the Dreadnought is immobilized, then it won't have the range or firepower to harm anything. A Plasma Cannon and a Missile Launcher will likewise do dick-all to a Land Raider (use Frag Missiles), but will really leave the Dreadnought out in the cold if he charges 18" into an enemy unit. So a compromise might be to take a Plasma Cannon and a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with a Heavy Flamethrower. Use the Dreadnoughts to escort your Land Raiders up the field, using its bulk to shield the Dreadnought so it can get close to the enemy. That way you get the close combat power during assaults, little risk of friendly fire during a Fire Frenzy, and you can leverage the Fire Frenzy result (two Plasma Blasts is nice) or Blood Rage results against the enemy.

If you go with two Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons you shouldn't skip the Extra Armour, because you want that Dreadnought to keep closing with the enemy.

Yeah, i used it a couple of times before rereading the rules, and then realized that a few games had been broken. awell.

And wouldn't it be worth the extra 50 points to just take a Defi? 2 more attacks, totally reliable, AP3 pie plate and a home wrecker for infantry in CC. just throwing it out there

Billie Joe:

Dreadnoughts are reliable so long as you're prepared for what they might do, as well as what you want them to do. They're also much easier to hide behind Land Raiders.

It might be worth the extra 50pts. I think it depends more on what you want in your Heavy Support and Elite slots.

If the original poster was going to take Terminators with Land Raiders, then Defilers all the way. But if he's taking Berzerkers in Land Raiders, then Dreadnoughts. If he's taking Berzerkers in Rhinos, then Defilers. The original poster seems intent on having his Heavy Support slots open for Land Raiders, so I think Dreadnoughts will work better, as well as free up points for at least two of the Land Raiders to have Daemonic Possession.

I regularly run:

DP MoK

8 Zerks PF Rhino
8 Zerks PF Rhino
8Zerks PW CMelta Rhino
8 Zerks PW CMelta Rhino

3 Dreads w/2DCCW

3 Defilers w/2 extra DCCWs

That's around 1850, but you get the idea.

Won 5 straight at The Big WAAAGH and 3 at Ard Boyz prelims.

if your opponent is close enough to pop a land raider with a melta before you disembark, aren't hey close enough to be assaulted in most cases?
(12 in. melta rule < 2 in. disembark + 6 in. move + 6 in. assault)

Suppose that you have moved your Land Raider 12" towards a Dreadnought armed with a Multi-Melta, for a gap of 17". The Dreadnought can then move 6" to close the gap and fire 11" to your Land Raider, gaining the Melta effect and perhaps blowing up your Land Raider before it can line up an assault for its contents.

Hey guys thanks for all the Replys! So i was thinking about some things and ive decided to try out the following.

Khorne Lord

8 Zerkers Skull champ w PF
8 Zerkers Skull champ w PF
8 Zerkers Skull champ w PF

3x LR
1x Rhino

5 Termies PFs and Heavy Flamer

With everything im looking at around 1740

What do you guys think about this?

I would also love to get a Blood Thirster as well as 2 more Termie squads for the LR and put the other Zerkers in Rhinos.

It might be something if you were a bit more specific about your list, such as specifying which squad that the Rhino is bought as a dedicated transport. And what's your Chaos Lord armed with, besides the Mark of Khorne? Are you taking any options on your Land Raiders?

Nurglitch wrote:If you go with two Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons you shouldn't skip the Extra Armour, because you want that Dreadnought to keep closing with the enemy.

+1!!!! Although that takes a tad away from their cheapliness.

Billie_Joe wrote:And wouldn't it be worth the extra 50 points to just take a Defi? 2 more attacks, totally reliable, AP3 pie plate and a home wrecker for infantry in CC. just throwing it out there

Defiler Disadvantages (Take it for what it's worth)
- Large Target + AV12 = Frowny Face
- Heavy Support (Dreads are elites)
- WS3

Defiler Advantages
- Fleet
- Many attacks
- AC + Heavy Flamer

Nurgle

The Rhino is taken for one of the Zerker squads since the Termies cant take it. The Lord as of now just has the Mark of Khorne and a Power weapon.

The LR have havoc launchers on them. I was thinking about taking extra armor plates...not sure yet. with 1750 points to work with and running the LR, it doesnt leave much room for anything.

Bad_Sheep37 wrote:The Lord as of now just has the Mark of Khorne and a Power weapon.

Give him Lightning Claws!!!!!!

Bad_Sheep37:

Okay, so write those details into your list.

The only problem with an all 'zerker list is that 2/3 of your games are objective based. Berserkers are nearly useless on Capture and Control, as they have to sit and hold the objective, most likely taking the charge, and not being able to fire out at incoming threats. There isn't any fire support with them there too, so they are sitting ducks. At this point level, you'll need 3 or 4 Troops, no skimping on it.

The big thing Khorne lists (generally) lack is melta and shooting. You need both or you will fail like Orks against heavies and mechdar/tau will run circles around you. Assaulting is good, you want it. You have amazing shooting built into CSM, so use that too. Orks are an assault based army too, but LOOOOOOOTAS!

Having Defilers and Land Raiders is one solution to Loota. Use the Land Raiders to block line of sight to cheaper transports, and to hammer the Lootas with accurate Havoc Launcher Fire. Hang the Defilers back beyond 48" and hammer away with its Battlecannon.

I agree about the Berzerkers though. Take a squad or two of Berzerkers to capture the objectives, and then take a squad or two of Chaos Space Marines to camp on the objectives. Give the Chaos Space Marines an Icon of Khorne and a Heavy Weapon, and they can happily sit on objectives fighting off charges and shooting at stuff that may not conveniently move within 12". They can still murder stuff in a kill point game. Give their Rhinos Havoc Launchers, and you go some distance to making up your deficient long range power.

Well, I meant to elaborate on that, but my friends called me away on Starcraft and had to finish. I meant that even though Orks are an Assault based army, they get huge shooting coverage. CSM can fit that in a whole bunch of ways without taking away from the assaultyness of the army. For objective holding, 2 marine squads with Missile Launchers, Meltas and a decked out champ are a great firebase. Durable, numerous, with Icon of Khorne they are deadly in CC, with equally good shooting. To be honest, he lacks tons of Melta though. Combi-Meltas on the Landraiders and Rhinos would help this though. Drop the Marines off at an objective and go tank hunting (sorta). If the list comes down to 2 Landraiders, 2 Zerkers and 2 Rhinos, 2 Marines, I'd get Melta laiden Havocs with Icon of Khorne and a decked out Champ in a Rhino. Then you have your anti-tank covered solid.

I would have to agree with the 2 Marine squads w/ MoK. I started useing them before i used zerkers since i liked the added ability of the bolter (small advantage but well worth it). The army would still be 100% Khorne but have a decent fire base as well.

Just another 2cents of potential bs: How bout the Deamon weapon (for poops and giggles) or Kharne (best anti tank weapon in the game esp against eldar or anything mech).

You need to stick a Daemon Weapon wielding Chaos Lord of Khorne with a tough Fearless unit just in case he drops the ball (more than 2/6 chance of that), so that the enemy doesn't take advantage of his lack of offense, win the combat, and either run him down or mangle him with No Retreat! wounds. I suggest Possessed, since they're Invulnerable, S5, A2, Fearless, and they might get Power Weapons or Rending or Furious Charge. Give them an Icon of Khorne and you have A3 S5. I wouldn't suggest Berzerkers because then he'll either be overkill (best directed at another unit) or deadweight.

Daemon Weapons of Khorne are so dangerous. They will smack you in the face 1/3 of the time. Kharne brings some outrageous hitting power, but a Daemon Prince adds more targets. People get scared of Daemon Princes and fire heavy weapons at them. In reality, they are only T5 3+, anti-infantry weapons will drag them down, but most people don't think about that. For killyness, Kharne and a Daemon Prince give comparable hitting power. The Daemon Prince is more exposed (not nessisarily a bad thing, just a risk) but faster, while Kharne is hidden, but more expensive and may kill his squad mates. A Chaos Lord with MoK and dual lightning claws is cheaper than both and puts out almost as good average killing power as the Bloodfeeder, but doesn't have the 1/3 risk or smacking yourself in the face. A Chaos Lord can't match the hitting power of either of the others though.

Kharn also goes well with Possessed, as they get Iv5+ against his occasional acts of fratricide. He's more reliable than a Chaos Lord with a Daemon Weapon, but he doesn't have the same potential for outrageous destruction (like an average of 12 attacks on the charge, 16 if you're lucky, 0 if you're not), and the fratricide thing can spell the difference between running down an enemy unit That said, Gorechild will let him handle enemy Walkers well, something with which Possessed have trouble.

In addition, don't think of the Chaos Space Marine advantage as the bolter, although it's nice to be able to reach out and touch someone. Think of it as two Melta Guns, with which you can crack open transports to assault the troops inside.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think more and more people are catching onto the fact that Daemon Princes are often large exposed targets with less resistance to small arms fire than four Plague Marines. You really need to hide them behind Land Raiders, and that's easier said than done against a mobile enemy.

Something to consider about a Chaos Lord is that they can take a pair of Lightening Claws and a Combi-Weapon. Add a Personal Icon and Melta Bombs just in case, and you end up with someone only a Chaos Space Marine cheaper than Kharn, but able to employ a Melta/Flamethower shot, and skill pretty reliable at killing without the fratricide.

If you're going to do the Chaos Lord then I think you want one in Terminator Armour, for the extra protection. You will lose the option of the Melta Bomb, and that'll open him up to Dreadnought Close Combat squishing.

Kharn is way better at outrageous destruction. Bloodfeeder is only a S4 power weapon after all. Kharn carries an I6 S6 Chainfist with the same amount of average swings and a much less drastic draw back. Oh, and he has a plasma pistol, effectively nabbing him a kill before combat starts.

Bolters are amazing weapons once you are have been a GEQ trying to capture it an objective out of CSMs hands. Bolters are an amazing weapon once you've been a GEQ in general. That aside, yes, he desperately needs the melta, but since they are going to be holding objectives first, hunting tanks second, I'd take a heavy weapon. Missile Launchers are vesitile, but if you do lack anti-tank, Lascannons are better.

Darkhound:

Nothing stopping the original poster from taking a Combi-Melta on an Aspiring Champion, particularly if he takes a Power Fist on the same guy. Then he can have two Melta shots in a turn, while toting a Lascannon or Autocannon for camping. If he has Lascannons elsewhere, like on Land Raiders, an Autocannon is nice for tearing up Rhinos and Land Speeders and such.

Kharn is more reliable than a Chaos Lord with a Bloodfeeder Daemon Weapon

Billie_Joe:

Actually, if you're not too picky about what represents what, it might be something to take a Chaos Sorcerer of Tzeentch. Call him a Warpriest of Khorne or somesuch. Give him Warptime, a Plasma Pistol, a Familiar, a Personal Icon, and Gift of Chaos. With Warptime he'll be re-rolling hits and wounds for five Power Weapon attacks on the charge, and make his Plasma Pistol safer. The Iv4+ will make him more survivable. And if you get stuck in combat with something nasty like a Bloodthirster you'll be able to zap it with Gift of Chaos, twice.

You could do something similar (and cheaper) with a Chaos Sorcerer of Nurgle, giving him a Plasma Pistol, Familiar, a Personal Icon, Warptime, and Nurgle's Rot. He won't be as effective in close combat due to inability to combine Warptime with his Force Weapon, but instead of eliminating enemy heavies with Gift of Chaos, he can sweep up large volumes of Stubborn T3 troops with Nurgle's Rot.