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Apologies if this is already mentioned, I searched but nothing was terribly helpful.

So I hate Ratlings. I think they're model-wise and fluff-wise the most ridiculous models in the IG. This being said, they seem to be far superior, tactially, to Special Weapons Squads with Sniper Rifles since you get more of them, everyone gets a Sniper Rifle and they're BS 4. Granted they're weak as a day-old giraffe (and just as skittish) but that's what trees (and Stealth) are for.

Anyway, my question is how far would I have to go to re-model a squad of non-Ratlings before they would be deemed Ratling-worthy and not confusing to an opponent. Obviously I would make them WYSIWYG, but I'd like them to be the more standard IG models, possibly with some distinguishing features to delineate them from regular Guardsmen. The specifics would probably be more a question for painting/modeling but I'm curious about YMDC for the rules aspect and avoiding confusion.

All comments welcome, thanks.

DoW

I'm probably just missing why this is in YMDC but if a guardsmen has a sniper rifle, its a guardmen with a sniper... if you tell your opponent you hate the model and its a proxy i don't see most people having a problem with it, but as far as tourneys go... Suck it up? I hate how lootas all have the same gun type with different pieces even tho every single one is "unique" but i still use the models. I also like the way that grots look, but i'm not going to say i like the way the models look, i'm using these as orks. Now, having brought that comparison up, the only real reason i wouldn't do that is because of the size difference, where a would get a cover save, a grot might not be visible, and therefore gets an advantage not meant for the unit it counts as or the model. A ratling model can't see over all the terrain a guardsman could which means you get a better unit without one of the (probably accidental) drawbacks.

No worries, I'll clarify a little to avoid any confusion.

I'm not saying "I want to use standard guard models for my ratlings, rawr!" I was saying "how much conversion would I need to do to a standard guardsman model (ie lying prone, make sure he's kneeling, chop off his knees, give him a beard, etc) before my new, converted model is appropriately Ratling enough.

I understand plonking a Coke can down and saying "this is a drop pod" isn't cool, but if you convert a rhino into a drop pod (for whatever reason and if you could manage it) it seems to me that there is a certain level where people no longer say "Okay that's a proxy but I'll allow it" and instead say "Cool converted Ratlings! Okay I just blasted 6 of them to the Warp, take a morale check."

@iamthecougar - The LOS and potential cover save issue is a good point, but to be fair you can put Ratlings standing on rocks, regular Guardman can be kneeling or standing, etc, so I'm not sure how hard and fast of a rule that is. Definitely something to think about though, and I would try and have them be as close to the same dimensions as possible.

I really don't even know what I'm going to do to convert them but any other specific rule concerns or issues people can think of would be welcomed.

Hope that's clear as mud.

DoW

Well... if you hate the models you could try making your own out of standard troops (probably cadians, they seem the easiest to me) by doing the exact opposite of the process for "biggerizing" marines. I guess that would be like cutting a section out of the legs and arms to make them more stocky, and possibly doing the same to the body to make it look proportional. Or i guess that if you want to figure out something else thats relatively the same size that can hold a sniper rifle... like a servitor or... something. Thanks to the "HOBBITS IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!!!" thing its kind of hard to get something the same size in a human army.

Personally, I love the ratlings, they're one of the few abhuman units to survive all these years! (IG Beastmen FTW).

BUT if you're dead-set against them, you could use kneeling guardsmen, though I think they'd be a little bit taller than the ratling models. Give them extra gear (NVGs etc) and a slightly different paint job to make them sufficiently different from your regular guys though.

Have you though about getting your hands on some old Squat models? or converting them from dwarfs? Hrud (the real ratlings )?

EDIT: I wasn't really paying attention to which forum this was posted in - ruleswise, as long as they're the same size/height as ratlings (or close to) and on the same diameter base, you're safe. As to your point about mounting ratlings on rocks, that is technically modifying the base, you need your opponent's permission (BRB pg 3). I doubt most people would complain as long as they're about right, and they look cool.

I'd have to agree that ratlings are horrible looking models and don't seem to really mesh with the IG. I hate them too, but I also hate the way hobbits look too, something about hairy feet I find disgusting.

As far as the height of the model, as long as you have something that is close enough, no one is going to give you crap, especially when the model is bigger and offers you less of a cover save.

Personally I run Whirlwinds as Exorcists for my WH army, and they're relatively different, but close enough. I've run them in a few tournys and never had a problem.

I'd do a search around and try and find sniper rifle bits and just model them on IG troopers.

The SM scouts with sniper rifles off GW's website look pretty easy to just clip the arms off, clip off the Guardsman's Las gun, and glue the rifle on how you so desire. It costs double to make than just buying a squad of ratlings, but as far as coolness, and ease of modification, I think it's the way to go.

Kreedos wrote:I also hate the way hobbits look too, something about hairy feet I find disgusting.

That is by far and away the best and most accurate anti-hobbit comment I've ever heard! Well done sir!

Good ideas all around, so thank you. I appreciate people throwing a bit of modeling advice out there in addition to the rules analysis, that has definitely given me some good ideas.

I think I'm going to definitely take the NVG, prone/crouching concept and run with it. I imagine my 'ratlings' as a squad of elite, but just ever so slightly on the edge of sanity, snipers that can't quite cope with fighting with the main Platoons. Something like a team of Larkin-esque guys who have had some pretty nasty experiences and would just be terrible for morale if they were hanging around the regular troopers. As such, they'd be scrawny and fearful, but excellent at sneaking around and getting away if there was trouble brewing. Fluffy stuff, but I think it works!

Thanks again to all who commented.

DoW

I'd say crouching or lying snipers with camo-netting would work fine.

Or you could do some alien mercenaries, grots with stolen tau rifles, or kroot or maybe some converted fantasy skaven or skinks with sniper rifles, or even some nonGW models if you don't game in a GW store.

Skaven would look neat.

You certainly couldn't argue they weren't "ratling" enough!

Have them taking a knee, give them all sniper rifles, and give them camo-cloaks or something to represent stealth. That's all I would need.

I have a personal rule for my army that closely conforms to the typicat Imperial attitude...Purge the Mutant!! And yes I understand that fluff-wise Ogryn and ratlings are more or less human they sure look like mutants to me. That being said both are very useful units. I converted some Necromunda Goliaths with a bunch of mechanical parts and put them on Ogryn size bases. My Ratlings are Catachans with extended barrel lasguns (long las) on kneeling Cadian legs (most of my army are Cadians). I used GS to make lots of extra gear (cloaks, bedrolls, extra ammo, etc)

My "Ratlings" are just Catachan and Cadian Snipers. It should be obvious from the unit makeup that they are not a special weapons team and are in fact Ratlings.

Just point it out to your opponent before the game and there should be no need to convert anything. Unless of course you just want to!

If you molded some mickey mouse ears on the guardsmen you may make your opponent laugh and then they may not mark you down.

I just wanted to point out again how much I hate Ratlings as well.

CONVERT HOBITSSES! Sorry, I had to

Well the question is from a glance, can you pick them out to be different from the average guardsman model? I mean from purely modelling, I should be able to tell immediately that your ratlings are not your average guard.

If you like the older Ratling models any better (hobbits with trucker caps on), I think they're still available from GW's collector range...

Pika_power wrote:Well the question is from a glance, can you pick them out to be different from the average guardsman model? I mean from purely modelling, I should be able to tell immediately that your ratlings are not your average guard.

For me it's not a big deal as they are the ONLY snipers in my army. YMMV

Pika_power wrote:Well the question is from a glance, can you pick them out to be different from the average guardsman model? I mean from purely modelling, I should be able to tell immediately that your ratlings are not your average guard.

Paint the snipers like clowns.

Use this model!!!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/common/xLargeProductImage.jsp?mWidth=873px&mURL=/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1181935_99060206064_SkavenJezzailMain_873x627.jpg&mAlt=Skaven+Jezzail&mHeight=627px

I detest Ratlings too.

1) They're cowards
2) They put evry uvver IG to shame with Initiative 4
3) I'm a Witch Hunter, remember? I wouldn't take an OGRYN if it could fist-f£@* a Carnie with one hand!