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Has anyone else noticed that these things massively outclass anything even close to their point costs?

Lets take the SM landspeeder. For about the same point cost, you lose front/side armor rating, you only get one anti tank weapon, and 1 anti infantry weapon both which need to be used at close range. where they turn into easy targets. Also its open topped.

The gunship on the other hand has 3 twin linked anti tank weapons, and 2 anti infantry weapons all while sitting at the safe distance of 36 inches.

To me it just seems like every single Imp guard army would want to take these. You don't even need to build your list around them.
I would say for the point cost they are the strongest most efficient unit in 40k atm.

I would like to hear other peoples opinions of whether these gunships are overpowered and in fact the best unit in 40k at the moment.

I think the view of them is roughly what you're saying. They can do a lot, bring a lot of firepower, and are relatively cheap.

Not as cheap as a SM Landspeeder, but cheap.

Best unit? That's not really answerable. They're certainly very good. But there's a lot of very good stuff in the IG Codex.

The Lascannon, while still a good piece, is falling out of favor. This is one of the few strikes against the Vendetta. Of course, it brings three of them, and T-L, but if it's moving, this is really only one.

By comparison, the darling of 5e, the Multi-Melta, is much more effective when used at close range. So the SM Speeder you mention is much cheaper, and much better at certain tasks (going right up to heavy armor and smoking it). Not that this makes it better than the Vendetta, just that there are limits to how fantastically amazing the Vendetta is.

Also keep in mind that the Vendetta is much larger than the Land Speeder. Due to its flight base its much easier to see and also get clear shots at than a speeder. The size also makes utilizing its deep strike potential much more difficult and it has such a large footprint. Fielding a squad of them takes up a lot of board space.

The speeder can take multiple anti infantry weapons as well as multiple anti tank weapons, but with most things in the SM army versatility is important. With the usual HF/MM speeder you can now move a full 12 inches and you are still firing the weapon you want to. With the vendetta you are choosing to move 6 inches and fire everything at 1 target, 12 inches and shooting only 1 of those las cannons or heavy bolters, or going flat out and not shooting.

Also with the vendetta you outlined if you are shooting at infantry the las cannons are kind of a waste and if your target is armor than the heavy bolters are probably not doing anything. If this were a rocket pod valk with heavy bolters then it would demolish infantry while being weak against armor. Guard can normally afford to specialize.

What is really nice is that it can carry 12 models inside to be scoring or deal with whatever it can't deal with well. Also the addition of the scout rule does give it that extra jump for turn 1 or the ability to come in from a short edge later in the game.

I like the unit but I don't think its so good to make it as overpowered as many seem to think.

Not to mention it costs 2 time more $$$ wise :S

Its worked okay for me. True it is huge, but anyone in their right mind that knows about 40k knows that Land Raiders gotta go >.< Still looks epic though really is showing some more of the guards power

A closer comparison to the vendetta would be the eldar wave serpent. Both are fast skimmers, both are transports.

Pointwise, the vendetta is 130 points, 140 if you upgun it by adding two heavy bolters. (two heavy bolters for 10 points, hmmm...why not?)

Pointwise the serpent is 100 points minimum, arming it with a tl shuriken cannon. To bring it closer to the vendetta in load out, we add spirit stones (extra armor) and change the weapon to a tl Bright lance for 145 points.

So how do the two compare now?


Serpent:

1) Is a tank, so can tank shock.
2) Has an energy field so it change weapon strengths over str 8 to str 8 and is immune to melta effect from front and sides.


Vendetta:

1) Scout, can move 24" before the first turn of the game or else can outflank.
2) Deepstrike, can drop in anywhere. The large footprint does limit this altho it all gets murky with counting what part of the model is hull.
3) Can deploy its cargo anywhere along its path even when moving fast at 24".
4) Has a searchlight ... whoopee.


The weapon comparison comes down heavily ob the side of the vendetta, 3 tl las cannons vs one tl bright lance, and two heavy bolters vs one tl shuriken catapult.

Combined with the scout move its rather easy for the vendetta to move 24" then move 6" to drop off its cargo and still fire with its weapons.



Overall the vendetta is by far the best transport in the game, its in the same point range as the serpent and is far faster than what used to be the fastest transport in the game.

Win for the vendetta.



Sliggoth

Vendettas are scary, with three twin-linked lascannons.

However, long-range fire power lost an edge in the 5th edition, since (1) cover saves are everywhere even for tanks and (2) the modified armor penetration table popping a tank by a penetrating hit on 5+.

One each vendetta and valk, cant really argue it's awesomes...

Of course they are totally rocking... what better way to promote multiple sales of a 50 dollar kit?

i have 1 and i take it in every list i have. if you own 1 you cant afford not to. its just to epic.

DONT GLUE THE ROOF THE ON GUNSHIP TO THE REST OF THE HULL

Ahem.. Yes, dont do that. It makes it a pain to paint & model the detailed ships interior (I guess heres really not the time nor place).

Edit: Oh dear, that was rather larger. Reducing size now..

It is certainly the most points efficient transport in the game due to its very powerful weaponry for a transport. Its ability to scout and outflank give it an edge on the Wave Serpent as well, but "BEST UNIT IN THE GAME" is a misnomer. I dont think there is a Best Unit, but Certainly best in class and I would have a hard time arguing with anyone who feels it is pretty heavilly undercosted.

The Valkyrie I think is right on. With pods its 10 points less than a Kitted out Wave Serpent, is faster but not as surviveable.

The Vendetta is just too cheap compared to other lascannon platforms, and then the transport ability on top of that is just adding insult to injury.

Lets be honest though, this was a really need transport. It needed to be fast, agile, and deadly. They Vendetta is finally making playing with IG and against them fun. It allows them to have much needed manuverability which really lacked in the previous version. Combined with the newer cheaper Chimera (which still stinks IMHO) IG can actually out manuver armies instead of playing the static boring gunline like before.

Now if they just made Stormtroopers and Ogryns worth near their points value things could have become intresting.

Something to point out about the Vendetta and the Valkyrie is their lack of cover-hugging ability, and they have no Smoke Launchers.

Also, Space Marine Land Speeders are not open-topped vehicles, although Land Speeder Storms are.

bigtmac68 wrote:Its ability to scout and outflank give it an edge on the Wave Serpent

This one is huge. Between scout, and the 6" move first turn, you can virtually guarantee your Vendetta a first turn transport shot. Which ultimately is what these are for, and they do it EXTREMELY well. As others have said, the metagame being what it is, you don't see very large quantities of ranged anti-tank. Tau railguns aside, the only thing's you'll be facing are autocannons (almost exclusively found in other IG armies), missile launchers (everyone has access, not that many take them), and lascannons (too expensive in most places, occasionally in SM armies though). Everyone else relies on meltas, which shouldn't be all that hard to avoid with a fast skimmer who spent the first 2 turns can opening transports.

Those lascannons make for extremely effective MC snipers too. I've watched a Vendetta and an autocannon heavy weapons team pull apart a carnifex every turn of some games.

broxus wrote:the newer cheaper Chimera (which still stinks IMHO)

really? you seriously think 55 points is unreasonable for an AV12 front transport w/ 3 S6 shots and a heavy flamer? It's a transport, with a transport-popping main gun (in sufficient numbers that is), and an infantry murdering hull weapon. I don't see the problem....

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Of course they are totally rocking... what better way to promote multiple sales of a 50 dollar kit?

Sadly, I think you've hit the nail on the head here. GW puts out an expensive new kit, no one should be surprised that it's good. You'll note we've got a new kit for the executioner and the bane wolf too, for the record. Now, if only you didn't need to kitbash or upgrade via Forgeworld to make a true Vendetta......

Also: a Vendetta with a PCS squad with 4 flamers in it is the best 180 points I've ever spent. (ok maybe not, but it's an excellent combination, no doubt.)

Nurglitch wrote:Something to point out about the Vendetta and the Valkyrie is their lack of cover-hugging ability, and they have no Smoke Launchers.

Also, Space Marine Land Speeders are not open-topped vehicles, although Land Speeder Storms are.

One thing to keep in mind though, is that if you move move then 12" you still get the same cover save as if you did have smoke launchers.
I don't believe any fast vehicle has smoke launchers. I may be mistaken though.

Sure, but if you move Flat Out then you can't shoot, and Immobilized results are converted to Destroyed (Wrecked).

True; generally the only time you're going to be flat-out'ing to a place where you can be shot heavily is if you're doing a suicide transport deposit, then plan to try and ride that 4+ to survival

The only other times I've find myself needing to move 12"+ is end-game objective grabs (again, PCS in vendetta comes to mind: scoring skimmer unit moving 24"), or to flee transports with meltaguns in them (threat range 20", you'll have to go that far minus your current seperation or you're gonna go kablooey).

I still think the strongest alpha strike is an outflanking a Vendetta second turn (easily with an astropath) with melta vets; move 6" onto the board near a rear-field vehicle, disembark and melta it (if you get behind something you don't even need the 6" extra die usually, as S8 vs rear 10 is a done deal), then triple TL-LC a second vehicle's rear armour. Popping a vindicator/demolisher/executioner/defiler/hammerhead/obliterator squad/etc. and a rhino/chimera/devilfish/etc. on turn 2 with a single unit is a wonderful thing.

Jamora wrote:
I don't believe any fast vehicle has smoke launchers. I may be mistaken though.

Actually the Hellhound family of tanks can take smoke launchers as a 5pt upgrade/tank in the squadron.

Cheers
~Volkan

Blood Angels vehicles also have smoke launchers and can use their special rules to be counted as fast vehicles.

1. Valkyrie has a footprint the size of the Baneblade lest we forget true line of sight.
2. Its base leaves it 4+ inches off the table.

These alone make it a non-option for me. If I want 3 lascannons, I'll get a heavy weapons squad. If I want them Twin linked there's a Company Command squad I had to take anyway who could make a second unit twin linked too.

The Heavy Boltes and Hellfury missiles are a waste if you're going to be using the twin Linked lascannons on just about anything so at 130+ you'd best be dedicating it to hunting armor...which a crew of veterans do better.

The vendetta is severely undercosted. It packs the same armor as the eldar skimmers, is just as fast and has triple the weaponry (one twin linked gun on the wave serpent or 2 non-linked guns on the falcon). Lets also not forget larger transport capacity and the ability to disembark troops while moving over 12. The only thing it lacks is survivability. The eldar tanks have energy and holo fields to help keep them alive but they have to pay quite a bit for them and the point cost doesn't balance out.

So once again, yay GW for making a new expensive model kit and giving it rules that will ensure it sells at the cost of good game mechanics.

Volkan wrote:
Jamora wrote:
I don't believe any fast vehicle has smoke launchers. I may be mistaken though.



Actually the Hellhound family of tanks can take smoke launchers as a 5pt upgrade/tank in the squadron.

What I'm pretty sure he meant by that was 'I don't believe any fast skimmers have smoke launchers', which would be true. Though to be honest, smoke launchers on a Valkyrie would be rediculous because unless it stood perfectly still, it would likely fly out of the smoke entirely too quickly. Not to mention the exhaust would suck all the smoke in.....

regular Fast Vehicles don't gain a cover save for moving flat out, I should point out, so smoke launchers still make plenty of sense on them.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Of course they are totally rocking... what better way to promote multiple sales of a 50 dollar kit?

buh buh buh...I though GW were just a bunch of fun loving guys who write fuzzy rules and like to play wargames with their mates? Such cynicism

The Defenestrator wrote:

bigtmac68 wrote:Its ability to scout and outflank give it an edge on the Wave Serpent

This one is huge. Between scout, and the 6" move first turn, you can virtually guarantee your Vendetta a first turn transport shot. Which ultimately is what these are for, and they do it EXTREMELY well. As others have said, the metagame being what it is, you don't see very large quantities of ranged anti-tank. Tau railguns aside, the only thing's you'll be facing are autocannons (almost exclusively found in other IG armies), missile launchers (everyone has access, not that many take them), and lascannons (too expensive in most places, occasionally in SM armies though). Everyone else relies on meltas, which shouldn't be all that hard to avoid with a fast skimmer who spent the first 2 turns can opening transports.

Those lascannons make for extremely effective MC snipers too. I've watched a Vendetta and an autocannon heavy weapons team pull apart a carnifex every turn of some games.

broxus wrote:the newer cheaper Chimera (which still stinks IMHO)

really? you seriously think 55 points is unreasonable for an AV12 front transport w/ 3 S6 shots and a heavy flamer? It's a transport, with a transport-popping main gun (in sufficient numbers that is), and an infantry murdering hull weapon. I don't see the problem....

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Of course they are totally rocking... what better way to promote multiple sales of a 50 dollar kit?

Sadly, I think you've hit the nail on the head here. GW puts out an expensive new kit, no one should be surprised that it's good. You'll note we've got a new kit for the executioner and the bane wolf too, for the record. Now, if only you didn't need to kitbash or upgrade via Forgeworld to make a true Vendetta......

Also: a Vendetta with a PCS squad with 4 flamers in it is the best 180 points I've ever spent. (ok maybe not, but it's an excellent combination, no doubt.)

Yea for some reason I dont Chimera's. I dont like the weapon options on it especially since if I move I can only shoot one of them at BS3. I also despise the AV10 armor on the sides because even bolters can shake you. Finally, I despise the most the cost of extra armor, I mean comon 15points thats crazy. Its a good gun support platform but not a good transport, give me the 35pt Rhino anyday of the week.

Of course all of this is just personal opinion of why I dont like them. I dont think the cost to much, but just think they are bad in that role compared to other options

Extra armor is bad in 5th.

Also you can still move up to 6 and fire everything. Its amazing for popping transports early as all of its attacks (HB included) can destroy something with crappy front armor (see rhino)

Its transport abilities are just over the top with scout so that it can be in your armies face blocking movement and destroying a decent amount of stuff (with transported vets or stormtroopers) for a relatively cheap price.

Ignore this post...

Alerian wrote:Ignore this post...

You're in a thread with the Topic Being Vendetta Gunship.
Not Chimera.