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So I was recently kicking back taking turns playing IWBTG with a friend of mine who doesn't play 40k, but is a history major. He happened to peer into my bitz box and picked out an old icon of khorne I had and said "hey, isn't this an ancient sign of the cross?"

I looked at him like he had two heads for a second, but it kinda does look like it. Does anyone know where GW got the inspiration for the signs of the chaos gods?

Nope. I think they're all original designs. The Star of Chaos represents the four major gods and, presumably, the four minor ones, two of which are Malal and the Horned Rat.

The 8 pointed star of chaos has been a symbol of the occult for a long long time, as i mentioned in another thread its on the front of a bible from the dark ages.

It's also the symbol of Scientology.

"Sign of the cross" is something you do at the start of mass and before and after saying grace or rosary. But I do have an idea of what your friend may have been talking about. In early greek Christian communities the name of Christ was written in greek letters so that the resulting symbol looked like a wheel.

I've seen that to Cheese.

Forgive my layman level of understanding here but are we trying to say that a khorne symbol looks like a cross/a circle divided into eight segmants?

The Khorne symbol is designed to look like a crude face. You can even carve it into your face to prove it.

The star represents the four major and four minor gods of Chaos.

Tzeentch's sign represents change. Khorne's is a crude face. Nurgle's represents death. Slaanesh's is a mix between the symbols for male and female.

Simple as that. Unless I'm wrong. Plz tell me if I am

ShadowAngel159 wrote:The star represents the four major and four minor gods of Chaos.

Tzeentch's sign represents change. Khorne's is a crude face. Nurgle's represents death. Slaanesh's is a mix between the symbols for male and female.

Simple as that. Unless I'm wrong. Plz tell me if I am

I think you're right. What you said makes sense.

Is your friend not confused with this:

that has six points

that's a very ornate jewish star, chaos's star has eight points. all of the symbols are very original to the understanding of games workshop. (my friends uncle is one of the lead modelers for WHFB, so he's pretty high up, and that's what he says.) Of course, there is always room for coincidence.

corpsesarefun wrote:The 8 pointed star of chaos has been a symbol of the occult for a long long time, as i mentioned in another thread its on the front of a bible from the dark ages.

Though an 8 pointed star symbol has been used in various religious means for quite some time (I'm pretty sure the Sumerians used it to represent wheat growth and/or Inana) The idea of the eight pointed "chaos" star is traceable directly to Michael Moorcock and his Elric series, and is thus a somewhat more recent connection.

I would submit that it's fairly obvious GW cribbed the 'Chaos' symbology from Moorcock.

In terms of the god's themes, I think Khorne is based off of the Christian Satan, and fiery demons of hell and torment. Nurgle is based off of the Grim Reaper, and is more based off of Pagan and Christian influenced Middle Ages culture. Tzeentch almost seems to have relation to Gnosticism, Zoroastrianism, and ancient Egyptian and Mesopotamian gods. Slaanesh seems to be based off of Baal and other Pagan fertility gods, that are usually the enemies of the Jewish god in their religion. The Emperor is obviously based around God as presented through Christianity, specifically Catholicism.

Well Khorne's Symbol is a stylized Skull
Slaanesh is a mix of the Male and Female gender symbols
Nurgle's is a stylized fly
and Tzeentch's Symbol is either a flame or stylized snake.

As far as the Eight-pointed star it appears on several of the Tarot cards (Most notably THE STAR).

What Tzeentch seems to be based on is the Zoroastrian god of evil Ahriman and Nurgle's name comes from the babylonian god Nergal.

If you flip the Khorne symbol upside down it looks like a happy child.

Orkeosaurus wrote:In terms of the god's themes, I think Khorne is based off of the Christian Satan, and fiery demons of hell and torment. Nurgle is based off of the Grim Reaper, and is more based off of Pagan and Christian influenced Middle Ages culture. Tzeentch almost seems to have relation to Gnosticism, Zoroastrianism, and ancient Egyptian and Mesopotamian gods. Slaanesh seems to be based off of Baal and other Pagan fertility gods, that are usually the enemies of the Jewish god in their religion. The Emperor is obviously based around God as presented through Christianity, specifically Catholicism.

I always saw nurgle as a parody of a certain modern religion. His sacred number is 7, and he is a very loving god, and his followers, in their minds, only want to share that love. Sounds very much like modern christianity.

crazypsyko666 wrote:that's a very ornate jewish star

No it's not, it's Christian because it's on a church I know it has the wrong number of points, I was just wondering if the guy had been mistaken.

Anyway, eight pointed stars in Christianity:

EIGHT-POINTED. This star symbolizes baptism and regeneration (renewal). The reason the number eight symbolizes regeneration has been lost. However, some scholars believe that it is connected to the shape of the early baptismal fonts (stands that contained water for infant baptism) which were eight sided. Others speculate that the eighth day of creation was like a new creation.

http://www.christiansymbols.net/table_contents.php

Grim.Badger wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:that's a very ornate jewish star

No it's not, it's Christian because it's on a church I know it has the wrong number of points, I was just wondering if the guy had been mistaken.

He is talking about the star of david not a star only used by the jews, and that star clearly is a very ornate star of david...

dude star of david is just an old testament symbol; Catholics and Christians and Jews can all use it.

Canonness Rory wrote:

I always saw nurgle as a parody of a certain modern religion. His sacred number is 7, and he is a very loving god, and his followers, in their minds, only want to share that love. Sounds very much like modern christianity.

Umm, no. just for the record, I am a Christian, and Christianity is NOTHING like Nurgle or his followers. Nurgle wishes death and decay. His followers BELIEVE him to be a loving god becuz of his so-called "gifts". Nurlge just wants the rot to spread so everyone will die.

God is not like that. He wishes His love to spread, but not to destroy everyone, even His own children.

I'm not trying to start another of those internet religion wars, I just want you guys to realize what I said. if GW tried to make Nurgle anything like God, then they failed utterly and they shouldn't even have tried.

ShadowAngel159 wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote:

I always saw nurgle as a parody of a certain modern religion. His sacred number is 7, and he is a very loving god, and his followers, in their minds, only want to share that love. Sounds very much like modern christianity.

Umm, no. just for the record, I am a Christian, and Christianity is NOTHING like Nurgle or his followers. Nurgle wishes death and decay. His followers BELIEVE him to be a loving god becuz of his so-called "gifts". Nurlge just wants the rot to spread so everyone will die.

God is not like that. He wishes His love to spread, but not to destroy everyone, even His own children.

I'm not trying to start another of those internet religion wars, I just want you guys to realize what I said. if GW tried to make Nurgle anything like God, then they failed utterly and they shouldn't even have tried.

To be honest, he DID say parody. While some will argue, this can all be the views of his followers, which is why it would be a parody. I agree that Nurgle is not like the Judeo-Christian God, it was just meant to say he parodied it.

ShadowAngel159 wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote:

I always saw nurgle as a parody of a certain modern religion. His sacred number is 7, and he is a very loving god, and his followers, in their minds, only want to share that love. Sounds very much like modern christianity.

Umm, no. just for the record, I am a Christian, and Christianity is NOTHING like Nurgle or his followers. Nurgle wishes death and decay. His followers BELIEVE him to be a loving god becuz of his so-called "gifts". Nurlge just wants the rot to spread so everyone will die.

God is not like that. He wishes His love to spread, but not to destroy everyone, even His own children.

I'm not trying to start another of those internet religion wars, I just want you guys to realize what I said. if GW tried to make Nurgle anything like God, then they failed utterly and they shouldn't even have tried.

Revelations 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelations 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Revelations 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Exodus 32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

1 Sam 6:19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

These are just a few of many, many examples of god killing people. You may be right, he may not want to destroy everyone, just the 66% of us who don't believe in the bible.

I think Nurgle is taken from an ancient Babylonian god named Nergle who was also a god of war and pestilence, also spelt Nirgal or Nirgali and is i think mentioned in the Hebrew bible.

That's likely where his name's from.

I think his imagery is more dark ages Europe (especially in WHFB).

Canonness Rory wrote:
Revelations 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelations 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Revelations 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Exodus 32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

1 Sam 6:19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

These are just a few of many, many examples of god killing people. You may be right, he may not want to destroy everyone, just the 66% of us who don't believe in the bible.

**sigh** this is what I was trying to avoid, another war. If you want to argue about this, then PM me. Otherwise, let's stop right now and get back to the topic.

All I believe is that Nurgle should not be compared to God, even as a parody. He is nothing like God in any way at all. God loves His children, Nurgle just uses his to spread more diseases.

The Khorne symbol is designed to look like a stylized skull.

ShadowAngel159 wrote:
**sigh** this is what I was trying to avoid, another war. If you want to argue about this, then PM me. Otherwise, let's stop right now and get back to the topic.

All I believe is that Nurgle should not be compared to God, even as a parody. He is nothing like God in any way at all. God loves His children, Nurgle just uses his to spread more diseases.

If you want to avoid criticism, stop having opinions.

Grandfather Nurgle loves his children too! Haven't you heard? The Great Father loves us all!
The parental imagery, the "love", the sacred number, it is far too obvious to ignore. I see aspect of the judeo-christian god in all the chaos gods, just Nurgle more than anyone else (except maybe Khorne)

Grim.Badger wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:that's a very ornate jewish star

No it's not, it's Christian because it's on a church I know it has the wrong number of points, I was just wondering if the guy had been mistaken.

Anyway, eight pointed stars in Christianity:

EIGHT-POINTED. This star symbolizes baptism and regeneration (renewal). The reason the number eight symbolizes regeneration has been lost. However, some scholars believe that it is connected to the shape of the early baptismal fonts (stands that contained water for infant baptism) which were eight sided. Others speculate that the eighth day of creation was like a new creation.

http://www.christiansymbols.net/table_contents.php

they're very confused christians then.... lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also, NEVER START SOMETHING ABOUT REAL RELIGION ON THE INTERNET. everyone thinks they know everything, and there are so many iterations of any single religion that there can be infinite answers to any of these questions.

Another thing, against the argument that these symbols are original, considering the amount of time and our inherent joy of doodling, nothing is original anymore if you put it into perspective; and after that it becomes the million monkeys and a million typewriters argument. I say lock this before it's too late.