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 Arachnofiend wrote:
The wargame exclusive models are absolutely gorgeous. Now if only they could remember to put clothes on their models more than half the time...

Yes, if I recall correctly, there is a NSFW version as well...

Celestine is my best painted model. I am the only one in the pasadena / LA gaming area that actually has a painted one. I see so many jank grey spray celestines. I will be real sad not seeing her on the table soaking up lascannon fire on her gemini. That gets me most of my wins when my opponent foolishly shoots their best anti tank weapons into celestine's gemini's 4++. Nothing makes me happier. 6 robots it is.

Maybe I can do a some sort of hodge podge conversion of my poor kataphrons and turn them into kastelons. I feel so bad that they are so gak now. I loved those models in 7th, but now I can't even play them.

EDIT: yes, second you EM on the deep screen strategy. 6 robots demands a deep screen. I am looking at buying a box of 40 bolt action dudes for $40 and putting skitarii bits on them. I will call them Cawl's colonial militia.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The wargame exclusive models are absolutely gorgeous. Now if only they could remember to put clothes on their models more than half the time...

are there even any offical GW female techpriests ever?

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The wargame exclusive models are absolutely gorgeous. Now if only they could remember to put clothes on their models more than half the time...

are there even any offical GW female techpriests ever?

Most tech priests are covered in totally indiscernible robes and robot bits. I see no reason why a Tech Priest Dominus couldn't already be a woman.

 ph34r wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The wargame exclusive models are absolutely gorgeous. Now if only they could remember to put clothes on their models more than half the time...

are there even any offical GW female techpriests ever?

Most tech priests are covered in totally indiscernible robes and robot bits. I see no reason why a Tech Priest Dominus couldn't already be a woman.

Good point but i assume by the time you get to dominus level you have no gender left. I mean a good model for Felicia.

There is Koriel Zeth from the Horus Heresy novel Mechanicum
http://wh40k-fr.lexicanum.com/wiki/Koriel_Zeth

gendoikari87 wrote:
Good point but i assume by the time you get to dominus level you have no gender left. I mean a good model for Felicia.

Gotcha, I'm not familiar with the character Felicia but yeah Wargames Exclusive could be good + greenstuff to modest-up the model if it's one of the ones they decided didn't need chest covering.

 ph34r wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The wargame exclusive models are absolutely gorgeous. Now if only they could remember to put clothes on their models more than half the time...

are there even any offical GW female techpriests ever?

Most tech priests are covered in totally indiscernible robes and robot bits. I see no reason why a Tech Priest Dominus couldn't already be a woman.

All genders are equal under the gaze of the Omnissiah, they are flesh and thus are weak!

 ph34r wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Good point but i assume by the time you get to dominus level you have no gender left. I mean a good model for Felicia.

Gotcha, I'm not familiar with the character Felicia but yeah Wargames Exclusive could be good + greenstuff to modest-up the model if it's one of the ones they decided didn't need chest covering.

She's from the Ciaphas Cain novels. She's an Enginseer the first time they meet and a Magos the second time.

what are these wargames exclusive, where can i get one, and how many kidneys do i need to sell to get one? also one that is covered up would be preferable.

gendoikari87 wrote:
what are these wargames exclusive, where can i get one, and how many kidneys do i need to sell to get one? also one that is covered up would be preferable.

just google wargames exclusive, its a nice site and reasonably priced, just beware, the models go from "OMG amazing" to "Get a girlfriend, Please"

gendoikari87 wrote:
what are these wargames exclusive, where can i get one, and how many kidneys do i need to sell to get one? also one that is covered up would be preferable.

eBay

Search for wargames exclusive

 generalchaos34 wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
what are these wargames exclusive, where can i get one, and how many kidneys do i need to sell to get one? also one that is covered up would be preferable.

just google wargames exclusive, its a nice site and reasonably priced, just beware, the models go from "OMG amazing" to "Get a girlfriend, Please"

oh okay. Thanks. i heard wargames exclusive and thought you were talking about limited runs by GW. like they do with Magic: the gathering promos.... also this ones nice.

lol dude has me on ignore, missed my post with a link to that exact model. too funny.

Technically someone could pitch a fit about you running a non GW model at a tournament or something right?

Jaynen wrote:
Technically someone could pitch a fit about you running a non GW model at a tournament or something right?

Depends on the organizer. If it is GW, they won't let you use non-GW models. If you kitbash, I believe they require it to have majority GW bits.

Going full Stygies VIII for my army tactics, it fits the most my playstyle, the fluff (shady business AdMech guys) and the colours I've chosen. I got to play a small list in a multiplayer Apocalypse game yesterday against Guard, got to say the -1 to Hit is really nice, and -2 against my lone Dragoon made one of my opponents chose to shot someone else half the time haha Of course in 1v1 he won't have the choice but still that's a really nice trait.

Also I've thought a bit about how to use the Infiltration stratagem efficiently and I believe infiltrating a pair of Fistellans can be nice. It allows them to make the charge at their first move, because they're placed right after deployment and so can make their 8" move to close the gap before charging. No need for a Datasmith too as you can insta-switch them to Conqueror protocols when they arrive. Of course against an opponent who properly screens their big stuff it won't be really effective, but it can be very punishing against someone who let a rift in their defenses. If you succeed in charging something important it can really wreck their defenses and distract a chunk of their army to deal with them. Using flamers to clean up a bit of the chaff could be effective before making your protocol switch. Remember to use the Canticle to reroll 1s to Hit and it can prove nice enough.

As for the deployment strategy you'd just have to deploy your Fistellans and CC units last, so that the opponent have time to set up their own units. That way you can see if the charge is possible or not, and chose another unit to infiltrate or another target to go for if things aren't going to go your way with your initial plan.

I'm going to try this someday, the meta at my LGS isn't full of Conscripts like it seems to be in your areas so that may prove really useful. In fact I've faced conscripts in the Apocalypse game yesterday, 2x50 with one Commissar each, first time my opponent tried Conscripts. He sheltered them in a Void Shield Generator along with officers and tanks. Well we just sniped his two Commissars turn 1 and then he took three turns to destroy my lone Dragoon with his Conscripts, by FRFSRF and in return in CC when I charged with the Dragoon. After one round he disengaged and it was an officer with plasma pistol who finished off my Dragoons. So I'm not really impressed at all with Conscripts like you all seem to be, I guess in a regular game they can be meaner but their volume of fire is a joke against Stygies VIII. Dealing 4 Wounds to a T6+ model with 180 shots is not really impressive, and it's so much a pain in the arse to roll all these dice (for nothing) that he won't be bringing Conscripts ever again. Luckily he didn't have to move his 100 Conscripts or the game would've taken three days.

Oh, don't know if it was mentioned but the Conqueror Imperative Doctrina stratagem that gives you +2 to Hit in CC for Dragoons ? It allows you to proc Taser on a 4+. Use it on a pair of Dragoons before charging something you want dead and chances are you'll have it dead. Can't wait to have more Dragoons, they're awesome with the Codex (love the AP-1, thanks GW).

Thanks for the information Aaranis. Hope you enjoyed that apoca game.
Yes i have to say snipers did a great job for me as well. Though i will not share your enthusiasm for only a stygia.

Atm after some testing iv found dakkastelans Mars with Cawl and wrath of mars being broken good. And our best choise to pass mortal wounds .4-6 is a must
So i wont be using my fist robots. Atm.
Mainly the robots suoer fists are 3 att each and if younchange protocol the flamers are dead points. Their 3 hits even superb will not be equal to the cheap 10 att from 5 staffpriests that will pass mortals passing high invu while kiling one small commisarr or even a cripled unit will get them in 3+ invu. Its almost 7-8 priest for a melee robot and you gotta take 2. All my games i found melee robots to need aegis for agreesive play. Else no point and since they now gonna deepmstrike and got a nerfed in returning mortals i find no issue to take them. From a superior defensive pusher they become a pure drop attack and thqt role they wont do competitive.

I see you enjoy your games and your decision on taking only stygia tell me you dont rally gone for competitive just enjoying your game. Fine by me.

Dragoons i gotta say i saw me and suzuteo(he convinced me as well) spamming most forums early on about how that unit offered superb options. Now are extreme. I could really say they are one of the cheapest and most important units. You can use them as screener as tar pit offnsive antihorde everything. The main issue is numbers.

In order to be as effective as we like they need to be more than 1. Less then 4. Some times we need them 3*1 for detachments. Thats their drowback. Atm j found the magic number for me to be a unit stygia of 3. I would love more but i vot issues moving them in melee and more are enetering again 250+ that is expenaive for what i want them for.
Tactics with dragoons involve inflitrate 13"+ they move 10 so -2 to hit will be safe even going second. With shroud wil have no issue for surviving. Youmcan team up with inf stygia hq for melee buff. Can be used with 3 canticles. And use +2 to hit since they got specfrum for a superd 4+ taser. They can use the double advance gem for obj hunting line breaker hunting units. And ofc they can use the exploding gem for a devastating result even when things go sour.

My main issue atm . After my Mars wall i dont have enough points to get staffpriests and dragoons. What to decide. Staff priests 10 even cheaper or dragoons. I have dragoons atm. We ll see. Its the first list i have without melee priests i hope i wont loose my luck.

Infiltrators though a great otpion their cost of 260 for 10 is more than their worth. They need to be 200 to be a good take for me between priests and dragoons +their main buff is shared with robots. Still the best unit benefit from both melee and range buffs will taser 5+ shoot with wrath of mars and have two canticles.. Though always nive and cheaper if youmdont have stygiamor want only mars. Might worth it for a Mars brigade that seem to be doable now.

You're right, I don't play pure competitive, but I rather try to have a fluffy list with units I like while compromising for useful stuff at the same time, because while my meta is not full of ruthless tourneyers, there's still some mean lists I need to be able to deal with. I play only Stygies VIII because I'm not fan of the idea of mixing Forge Worlds and all of my force is painted the same anyway. I totally agree that in a pure competitive setting Mars is the go-to thanks to the buffed Cawl and Wrath of Mars (seriously they could've made that one AdMech-wide :/) but I prefer a more mobile playstyle with loads of infantry so I keep it to Stygies. I hesitated with Graia for the pseudo FnP (more like Feel No Death) but I'm pretty sure the -1 to Hit is way better for survivability as long as we don't have transports for our Vanguard. I found the Lucius dogma to be too specific, really can't think of a load of weapons that deal -1 AP and I'd fail my save anyway, so I prefer mitigating their chances to hit me in the first place. You're also basically immune to overcharged plasma over 12" because your opponent won't risk blowing up their units that much thanks to the -1, so that adds survivability for our artillery. It also negates the Tesla effect on 6, should you be facing Necrons or other weapons that procs something on 6's to Hit.

As for the unit to Infiltrate subject, you're right that 10 Fulgurites are way cheaper to field and somewhat resilient too. I'd use them against different targets than the Fistellans would go to, though. I've found Fulgurites (even though I only play 5 for now) are excellent when they get the charge on Terminators and such. They killed a C'tan on the charge too once, that was fun. They have the perfect damage output to deal with the Terminators' Wounds, and if they can go through their 3++ shield easily under the weight of attacks. Got to be lucky on your Wound rolls though. I'd send Fistellans against undefended tanks and such, because at S10 they'll wound most of the time on 3+, and negate the majority of the armor saves they'll face. Tanks are also not really good in fighting back so you'll be sure to have demolished your target after their two CC rounds against a tank that can't yet disengage. I didn't to the exact maths (I don't know how to Mathammer) but with two Fistellans, fighting twice, rerolling 1's to Hit, you'd dish out roughly 18 damage. If someone wants to do the exact math I'd be grateful because that seems a lot to me They also have the advantage of being tough to kill, and they'll be right in the enemy lines, he'll have to spend considerable firepower and units to deal with it as he can't just ignore it (except if he finds a way to tarpit you) and that gives you that much ease to set up your own artillery to deal with the bulk of the army. I don't know in my theory it sounds like a somewhat expensive Distraction Carnifex but they look more menacing than Fulgurites for that role. I'd say it really depends on your opponent's army and the deployment, mission etc. to see which unit you'd take to fill that role. I've always wanted Fistellans so I'd like my plan to work, I'll borrow some to try it out someday.

I think I'll go with two pairs of Dragoons like everyone said earlier, just because if helps maximizing the +2 to Hit stratagem because they'll be two Dragoons benefiting from 1 CP and that sounds meaner than one Dragoon. However I'm stuck if I want to run a Brigade, because that'll only fill 2 FA slots and I don't want five Dragoons. Ironstrider are not worth it in my opinion, even with the codex. The Cognis stratagems are oddly specific and thus are a waste of CP I think. So I'd go with a pair of Dragoons for offense, and two single Dragoons for screening my flanks maybe, that way I can open up the way for a Brigade.

Oh did you know the cheapest Brigade we can fill thanks to the codex costs only 1101 pts ? I can tell the details if you want but I can tell you it's not a good list Just to say filling a Brigade is not an unreachable dream like before, and having 12 CP with our sweet Stratagems is a really tasty possibility.

Ironstriders are good too, especially in a pure Stygies army where you don't get Wrath of Mars; 4 Autocannon Ballistarii is a lot of dakka. They are pricier than Dragoons though.

I honestly did not realize how much stronger Dragoons became until I did the math myself. As rvd1ofakind pointed out, point for point, they rival double-shot Kastelans against T6 and T7 units.

vs. Razorback (T7, 3+, 10W)
Dragoons w/ Doctrina: 3.33 wounds per 68 points; 20.40 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Doctrina and Protector: 3.33 wounds per 110 points; 23.57 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Wrath of Mars and Protector: 2.67 wounds + 2 mortal wounds per 110 points; 23.57 points per wound, 2 CP

vs. Taurox Prime (T6, 3+, 10W)
Dragoons w/ Doctrina: 3.33 wounds per 68 points; 20.40 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Doctrina and Protector: 5 wounds per 110 points; 22 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Wrath of Mars and Protector: 4 wounds + 2 mortal wounds per 110 points; 18.33 points per wound, 2 CP

In summary, a unit of 4 Dragoons kills practically any transport in one turn for 1 CP.

Yes seems like the 3 fast slots could be

Balistarii
Balistarii
1*3-4 dragoons

A bit costly but doable even taking one les onager for those 2 lasc balistarii could work if need the detament slots

In my Mars brigade imgot it this way since points are limited and with only 3 heavys this is my choise. Though id prefer stygia in any case for striders. As always cant find proper lists with so few units. Unf.

Asranis uses wall of text, it's super effective!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Suzuteo wrote:
Ironstriders are good too, especially in a pure Stygies army where you don't get Wrath of Mars; 4 Autocannon Ballistarii is a lot of dakka. They are pricier than Dragoons though.

I honestly did not realize how much stronger Dragoons became until I did the math myself. As rvd1ofakind pointed out, point for point, they rival double-shot Kastelans against T6 and T7 units.

vs. Razorback (T7, 3+, 10W)
Dragoons w/ Doctrina: 3.33 wounds per 68 points; 20.40 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Doctrina and Protector: 3.33 wounds per 110 points; 23.57 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Wrath of Mars and Protector: 2.67 wounds + 2 mortal wounds per 110 points; 23.57 points per wound, 2 CP

vs. Taurox Prime (T6, 3+, 10W)
Dragoons w/ Doctrina: 3.33 wounds per 68 points; 20.40 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Doctrina and Protector: 5 wounds per 110 points; 22 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Wrath of Mars and Protector: 4 wounds + 2 mortal wounds per 110 points; 18.33 points per wound, 2 CP

In summary, a unit of 4 Dragoons kills practically any transport in one turn for 1 CP.

keep in mind that's using a CP. not something that you can do on the average without it. also those are not targets i want my kastelans shooting at, those are onager targets.

also kastelans should only be 2.66 on t7 with doctrina and protector unless you're factoring in re rolls. as they only get +1 BS not +2 as they don't the datatether thing.

Suzuteo wrote:
Ironstriders are good too, especially in a pure Stygies army where you don't get Wrath of Mars; 4 Autocannon Ballistarii is a lot of dakka. They are pricier than Dragoons though.

I honestly did not realize how much stronger Dragoons became until I did the math myself. As rvd1ofakind pointed out, point for point, they rival double-shot Kastelans against T6 and T7 units.

vs. Razorback (T7, 3+)
Dragoons w/ Doctrina: 3.33 wounds per 68 points; 20.40 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Doctrina and Protector: 3.33 wounds per 110 points; 23.57 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Wrath of Mars and Protector: 2.67 wounds + 2 mortal wounds per 110 points; 23.57 points per wound, 2 CP

vs. Taurox Prime
Dragoons w/ Doctrina: 3.33 wounds per 68 points; 20.40 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Doctrina and Protector: 5 wounds per 110 points; 22 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Wrath of Mars and Protector: 4 wounds + 2 mortal wounds per 110 points; 18.33 points per wound, 2 CP

Only Skitarii units get the Doctrina though, so I believe your math is not correct for the Kastelan unit. You could count the Cawl re-rolls though as I believe most people will have them near Cawl.

The Ironstrider with Autocannon may be nice indeed, nothing does S7 in my army save the Dunecrawlers but there may be time where it's best to shoot something with less firepower than a Neutron Laser. I do have a Scions Command Squad with two plasma guns and 2 melta guns but they may be needed elsewhere. Their price (in €) rebukes me a bit to have them PLUS the Dragoons, so I'll buy the same number of boxes than I originally planned anyway.

other interesting things to note are fistelans to that razor do 5 wounds or about the same per point. and also have a gun, but onagers do much worse per points (granted comparing ranged attacks to CC is comparing apples to oranges)

gendoikari87 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Aaranis wrote:
Going full Stygies VIII for my army tactics, it fits the most my playstyle, the fluff (shady business AdMech guys) and the colours I've chosen. I got to play a small list in a multiplayer Apocalypse game yesterday against Guard, got to say the -1 to Hit is really nice, and -2 against my lone Dragoon made one of my opponents chose to shot someone else half the time haha Of course in 1v1 he won't have the choice but still that's a really nice trait.

Also I've thought a bit about how to use the Infiltration stratagem efficiently and I believe infiltrating a pair of Fistellans can be nice. It allows them to make the charge at their first move, because they're placed right after deployment and so can make their 8" move to close the gap before charging. No need for a Datasmith too as you can insta-switch them to Conqueror protocols when they arrive. Of course against an opponent who properly screens their big stuff it won't be really effective, but it can be very punishing against someone who let a rift in their defenses. If you succeed in charging something important it can really wreck their defenses and distract a chunk of their army to deal with them. Using flamers to clean up a bit of the chaff could be effective before making your protocol switch. Remember to use the Canticle to reroll 1s to Hit and it can prove nice enough.

As for the deployment strategy you'd just have to deploy your Fistellans and CC units last, so that the opponent have time to set up their own units. That way you can see if the charge is possible or not, and chose another unit to infiltrate or another target to go for if things aren't going to go your way with your initial plan.

I'm going to try this someday, the meta at my LGS isn't full of Conscripts like it seems to be in your areas so that may prove really useful. In fact I've faced conscripts in the Apocalypse game yesterday, 2x50 with one Commissar each, first time my opponent tried Conscripts. He sheltered them in a Void Shield Generator along with officers and tanks. Well we just sniped his two Commissars turn 1 and then he took three turns to destroy my lone Dragoon with his Conscripts, by FRFSRF and in return in CC when I charged with the Dragoon. After one round he disengaged and it was an officer with plasma pistol who finished off my Dragoons. So I'm not really impressed at all with Conscripts like you all seem to be, I guess in a regular game they can be meaner but their volume of fire is a joke against Stygies VIII. Dealing 4 Wounds to a T6+ model with 180 shots is not really impressive, and it's so much a pain in the arse to roll all these dice (for nothing) that he won't be bringing Conscripts ever again. Luckily he didn't have to move his 100 Conscripts or the game would've taken three days.

Oh, don't know if it was mentioned but the Conqueror Imperative Doctrina stratagem that gives you +2 to Hit in CC for Dragoons ? It allows you to proc Taser on a 4+. Use it on a pair of Dragoons before charging something you want dead and chances are you'll have it dead. Can't wait to have more Dragoons, they're awesome with the Codex (love the AP-1, thanks GW).

 Aaranis wrote:
You're right, I don't play pure competitive, but I rather try to have a fluffy list with units I like while compromising for useful stuff at the same time, because while my meta is not full of ruthless tourneyers, there's still some mean lists I need to be able to deal with. I play only Stygies VIII because I'm not fan of the idea of mixing Forge Worlds and all of my force is painted the same anyway. I totally agree that in a pure competitive setting Mars is the go-to thanks to the buffed Cawl and Wrath of Mars (seriously they could've made that one AdMech-wide :/) but I prefer a more mobile playstyle with loads of infantry so I keep it to Stygies. I hesitated with Graia for the pseudo FnP (more like Feel No Death) but I'm pretty sure the -1 to Hit is way better for survivability as long as we don't have transports for our Vanguard. I found the Lucius dogma to be too specific, really can't think of a load of weapons that deal -1 AP and I'd fail my save anyway, so I prefer mitigating their chances to hit me in the first place. You're also basically immune to overcharged plasma over 12" because your opponent won't risk blowing up their units that much thanks to the -1, so that adds survivability for our artillery. It also negates the Tesla effect on 6, should you be facing Necrons or other weapons that procs something on 6's to Hit.

As for the unit to Infiltrate subject, you're right that 10 Fulgurites are way cheaper to field and somewhat resilient too. I'd use them against different targets than the Fistellans would go to, though. I've found Fulgurites (even though I only play 5 for now) are excellent when they get the charge on Terminators and such. They killed a C'tan on the charge too once, that was fun. They have the perfect damage output to deal with the Terminators' Wounds, and if they can go through their 3++ shield easily under the weight of attacks. Got to be lucky on your Wound rolls though. I'd send Fistellans against undefended tanks and such, because at S10 they'll wound most of the time on 3+, and negate the majority of the armor saves they'll face. Tanks are also not really good in fighting back so you'll be sure to have demolished your target after their two CC rounds against a tank that can't yet disengage. I didn't to the exact maths (I don't know how to Mathammer) but with two Fistellans, fighting twice, rerolling 1's to Hit, you'd dish out roughly 18 damage. If someone wants to do the exact math I'd be grateful because that seems a lot to me They also have the advantage of being tough to kill, and they'll be right in the enemy lines, he'll have to spend considerable firepower and units to deal with it as he can't just ignore it (except if he finds a way to tarpit you) and that gives you that much ease to set up your own artillery to deal with the bulk of the army. I don't know in my theory it sounds like a somewhat expensive Distraction Carnifex but they look more menacing than Fulgurites for that role. I'd say it really depends on your opponent's army and the deployment, mission etc. to see which unit you'd take to fill that role. I've always wanted Fistellans so I'd like my plan to work, I'll borrow some to try it out someday.

I think I'll go with two pairs of Dragoons like everyone said earlier, just because if helps maximizing the +2 to Hit stratagem because they'll be two Dragoons benefiting from 1 CP and that sounds meaner than one Dragoon. However I'm stuck if I want to run a Brigade, because that'll only fill 2 FA slots and I don't want five Dragoons. Ironstrider are not worth it in my opinion, even with the codex. The Cognis stratagems are oddly specific and thus are a waste of CP I think. So I'd go with a pair of Dragoons for offense, and two single Dragoons for screening my flanks maybe, that way I can open up the way for a Brigade.

Oh did you know the cheapest Brigade we can fill thanks to the codex costs only 1101 pts ? I can tell the details if you want but I can tell you it's not a good list Just to say filling a Brigade is not an unreachable dream like before, and having 12 CP with our sweet Stratagems is a really tasty possibility.

Asranis uses wall of text, it's super effective!

Honestly, what was the point of this statement? If you don't want to read Aaranis's posts, then don't.

gendoikari87 wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
Ironstriders are good too, especially in a pure Stygies army where you don't get Wrath of Mars; 4 Autocannon Ballistarii is a lot of dakka. They are pricier than Dragoons though.

I honestly did not realize how much stronger Dragoons became until I did the math myself. As rvd1ofakind pointed out, point for point, they rival double-shot Kastelans against T6 and T7 units.

vs. Razorback (T7, 3+, 10W)
Dragoons w/ Doctrina: 3.33 wounds per 68 points; 20.40 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Doctrina and Protector: 3.33 wounds per 110 points; 23.57 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Wrath of Mars and Protector: 2.67 wounds + 2 mortal wounds per 110 points; 23.57 points per wound, 2 CP

vs. Taurox Prime (T6, 3+, 10W)
Dragoons w/ Doctrina: 3.33 wounds per 68 points; 20.40 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Doctrina and Protector: 5 wounds per 110 points; 22 points per wound, 1 CP
Kastelan w/ Wrath of Mars and Protector: 4 wounds + 2 mortal wounds per 110 points; 18.33 points per wound, 2 CP

In summary, a unit of 4 Dragoons kills practically any transport in one turn for 1 CP.

keep in mind that's using a CP. not something that you can do on the average without it. also those are not targets i want my kastelans shooting at, those are onager targets.

What are you smoking?

First, the typical army these days has 7 CP, and practically all of it is going to be spent in the first three turns. Everyone who is thinking competitively is right now finding disgusting ways to maximize how much damage we are doing per CP spent. I just demonstrated that Dragoons use that CP more efficiently than Kastelans (under certain conditions, anyway), and they are definitely more efficiently than Crawlers:

vs. Razorback (T7, 3+, 10W) or Taurox Prime (T6, 3+, 10W)
Neutron Crawler: 3.556 wounds per 140 points; 39.37 points per wound
Neutron Crawler w/ Doctrina: 4.444 wounds per 140 points; 31.5 points per wound, 1 CP

And for the record, a double-shot Kastelan has always outdamaged a Crawler against T6 and T7 transports. The Crawler's power is its versatility and range. Kastelans project a 36" bubble of death, but Crawlers can move and shoot at 48". Furthermore, they are effective against T8 units like Land Raiders and Leman Russ.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Asranis uses wall of text, it's super effective!

I know it looks intimidating to read that much text when you can't even read my name right, don't bother. I've stopped taking you seriously long ago like half the people of this thread.

Also, I have the codex since Wednesday so if you guys have any specific questions I could help you out.

 Aaranis wrote:

Only Skitarii units get the Doctrina though, so I believe your math is not correct for the Kastelan unit. You could count the Cawl re-rolls though as I believe most people will have them near Cawl.

The Ironstrider with Autocannon may be nice indeed, nothing does S7 in my army save the Dunecrawlers but there may be time where it's best to shoot something with less firepower than a Neutron Laser. I do have a Scions Command Squad with two plasma guns and 2 melta guns but they may be needed elsewhere. Their price (in €) rebukes me a bit to have them PLUS the Dragoons, so I'll buy the same number of boxes than I originally planned anyway.

Good catch. So Kastelans can only Wrath of Mars. Unless you bring Kataphrons, anyway. And true. I did not include rerolls!

vs. Razorback (T7, 3+, 10W)
Kastelan w/ Protector and Cawl reroll: 3.556 wounds per 110 points; 30.93 points per wound
Kastelan w/ Wrath of Mars, Protector, and Cawl reroll: 3.556 and 2.67 mortal wounds per 110 points; 17.67 points per wound

vs. Taurox Prime (T6, 3+, 10W)
Kastelan w/ Protector and Cawl reroll: 5.333 wounds per 110 points; 20.64 points per wound
Kastelan w/ Wrath of Mars, Protector, and Cawl reroll: 5.333 wounds and 2.67 mortal wounds per 110 points; 13.75 points per wound

So Dragoons are superior against T7, on par against T6, and use CP more efficiently. The catch, of course, is that they have to make it into melee.

 Aaranis wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Asranis uses wall of text, it's super effective!

I know it looks intimidating to read that much text when you can't even read my name right, don't bother. I've stopped taking you seriously long ago like half the people of this thread.

Also, I have the codex since Wednesday so if you guys have any specific questions I could help you out.

no need to be an donkey-cave, to the ignore list you go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
wow dakka somehow that censoring seems worse than the original


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Suzuteo wrote:

What are you smoking?

First, the typical army these days has 7 CP, and practically all of it is going to be spent in the first three turns. Everyone who is thinking competitively is right now finding disgusting ways to maximize how much damage we are doing per CP spent. I just demonstrated that Dragoons use that CP more efficiently than Kastelans (under certain conditions, anyway), and they are definitely more efficiently than Crawlers:

Just saying it's something to keep in mind, no need to be a dick. ignore list for your ass too.

Dragoons also benefit from 2 canticles. Str and rerolls. Thats a big ++ and their mobility is a key factor vs robots that will soon become so stationary tat most plans vs them will be either outrange them since most lists i see have no balistariiand no more than 1-2 neutronagers. So a lists going first with lets say 8 lascannons average or equal myabe my list of 3-4 onagers will clearly outshoot your onagers and will eventually kill the stationary robots.

Pure damage robots good but dragoons also benefit from canticles and onagers dragoons also moveeeee

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Asranis uses wall of text, it's super effective!

I know it looks intimidating to read that much text when you can't even read my name right, don't bother. I've stopped taking you seriously long ago like half the people of this thread.

Also, I have the codex since Wednesday so if you guys have any specific questions I could help you out.

no need to be an donkey-cave, to the ignore list you go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
wow dakka somehow that censoring seems worse than the original


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Suzuteo wrote:

What are you smoking?

First, the typical army these days has 7 CP, and practically all of it is going to be spent in the first three turns. Everyone who is thinking competitively is right now finding disgusting ways to maximize how much damage we are doing per CP spent. I just demonstrated that Dragoons use that CP more efficiently than Kastelans (under certain conditions, anyway), and they are definitely more efficiently than Crawlers:

Just saying it's something to keep in mind, no need to be a dick. ignore list for your ass too.

At this point, who isn't ignoring everyone else? This thread is just killing me!