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GUARD KILLING ARMY LIST

HQ

Kayvaan Shrike (195)


TROOPS

1 Marine Sergeant & 5 Tactical Marines (161)
Razorback; Twin-linked Heavy bolter, Extra Armour

1 Marine Sergeant & 9 Tactical Marines (230)
1 Melta-gun, 1 Multi melta, Drop pod, Locator Beacon


FAST ATTACK

1 Marine Sergeant wth Powersword & 7 Assault Marines (169)
1 Marine Sergeant wth Powersword & 7 Assault Marines (169)
1 Vanguard Sergeant wth Powersword & 5 Veterans 2 Power Swords, all wth Jump Packs (235)


HVY SUPPORT
Thunderfire Cannon (100)
Predator (120) Turret; Auto-cannon, Side sponsons; Lascannons
Predator (120) Turret; Auto-cannon, Side sponsons; Lascannons

TOTAL 1, 499


TACTICS

Shrike gives all marines FLEET OF FOOT, attach to one unit of Assault marines and get INFILTRATE
Deploy 18" away, Jump 12", Run up to D6 inches (even if you score '1' you are still within 6" to assault) then Assault one or two units
Either hope the enemy don't run away and fight another turn of combat for you to kill them and charge fresh unit in your turn 2 or use cover to live longer.

Other Assault marines act as second wave to support Shrike's Unit

Place Drop pod close to enemy lines as the scatter is reduced automatically..
Drop pod delivers 10 marines into rear/ sides of tanks while Multi-melta and melta cuts through enemy armour like butter. Then
Locator beacon (on drop pod) drops Vanguard close enough to use Heroic Intervention straight away (remember to declare straight away) into again another guaranteed turn 1 assault (use with Shrike's unit for full killing potential; 24 attacks on the charge with 12 as power weapons)

Razorback sits back ready to transport marine to claim / contest objectives.

Techmarine bolsters its own cover to gain +1 cover save, deployed in terrain gives 3+ save from enemy return fire, deploy this unit on opposite flank and take advantage of its full 60" range. Thunder fire Cannon pins enemy units and needs to support Shrike's unit or second wave assaults for full potential

Both Predators deploy on same flank and either alternate popping smoke allowing for cover or bully enemy tanks until destroyed or cannot shoot next turn.

Versus IG and other horde armies it does pretty well. I have played 4 and won 4. It may not be play tested fully completely though in tournaments you only play 3-4 games tops.

Though what lacks in troops this army packs a devastating uppercut to any commander by getting them to think quicker than they can react. Have a little faith in power armour and they'll know by the following turn, the Emperor will be upon them.

I would suggest you re-think the load-outs of those assault marines. Two flamers will really help you clear those larger stubborn LD9 30-strong guardsmen squads.

Powerswords are to deal with MEQ/TEQ's (as you get more attacks) and to take out powerful elite units at relatively high I. Strike at I1 will really have no effect compared to striking at I4 and whilst you will loose out on one attack, it allows you to deal more effectively with walkers, vehicles in general but specifically assault-class leman russes.
On this note; the Vanguard with all those power swords on the expensive vanguard are wasted on GEQ armor saves. Its also wasted, with str4, vs rear armor 10.. but ofcource krak grenades are your friends here but a powerfist will help alot more.

The multi-melta drop-pod squad could really do with a combi-melta with the sergant. Allows you to think about hitting two seperate vehicles via combat-squading upon disembarking from the drop pod. More importantly this tactic allows you to set up & fire with the multi-melta and engage units/objective capture with the other 5man squad.. but its not fool-proof.

I suggest max out your two assault squads, giving them flamers and a sgt.power fist. Drop the vanguard unit. Get another razorback tactical squad (with guard autocannons & lascannons in abundance, your minimalistic two scoring units will be insuffecient I think and the 2-strong razorback wall will provide a good cover-shield for the single non-infiltrating assault squad).
Give both razorback squads combi-meltaguns. Make everything a can-opener. I would fear this.

I fully agree with Razerous concerning the weapons loadouts changes.

One issue though: I don't think you can start off in a drop pod together, then combat squad them as soon as they hit the ground. Maybe I'm way off on this, I'll have to check my codex when I get home.

Drop pods coming in from reserve and then deploying and disembarking thier loaded troops is the only time that a combat-squadable Space marine unit can utilize the "Combat Squads" rule outside of standard deployement.

Ah, good to know, thanks.

OP: Razerous has it right on three posts up.

if your having problems with guard then why take power swords? thier armour is hardly worth wasting those points on.
Those points could be better spent else where.

Also, i would drop all 3 of your HS choices and take 3 vindi's.
S10 pie plates will ruin anything under them, including any tanks the guard may have.
Due to the size of guard armies it will be rare for a plate to scatter and still not kill something.

i'd also drop out the vanguard vets and take a unit of claw termies instead.
Pure amount of attacks mixed with a 2+/5+ means once they hit combat they will start to tear through units, and rarely even lose a model.

Woahhhhh!!!

First, there is only one points to spare so extra marines and power fists and flamers, while good, won't fit.

Second, termies with claws will die to all those lascannons without a LR, and fleet is better for jump infantry, it makes their move ridiculous!

I think this is right on--everyone has krak grenades so assaulting tanks, you don't need to have power fists. There are no monstrous creatures in a guard army.

The only suggestion I have is that you just go for TL las turret instead of sponsons on the Preds, that way you can move and shoot and most likely hit.

rdlb wrote:
First, there is only one points to spare so extra marines and power fists and flamers, while good, won't fit.

Remove;
1) Vanguard unit
2)Locator beacon
3)All power swords

Count all of those points.

Use them to purchase;
1)Atleast two powerfists on the two assault squads
2)1-2 combi-meltas.
3)Razorback tactical squad.

If your lacking the points for the third choice, drop off the lascannon side sponsons on one predator (and either replace it with h.bolters or leave it bare). You need those two razorbacks to cover the assault squads advance. You then need the assault squad to leap-frog assault those razorbacks and give cover (via engaging) to them in turn. You need the powerfists to give your army clout.

If you dont like any of this then dont field assault squads and shrike as a core to the army..

rdlb wrote:I think this is right on--everyone has krak grenades so assaulting tanks, you don't need to have power fists. There are no monstrous creatures in a guard army.

The bolded words are false in context to krak grenades. Guard field vehicle squadrens and assault russes and more importantly, can field Front armour AV12 walkers which can very easily tarpit a 200pt+ assault unit that doesnt have a powerfist.

The krak grenade vs a combat-speed vehicle with rear AV10: 10 marines with 4's to hit equates to 5 hits. 5x str6 rolls vs AV10 relates to 1 glance or penetrating hit and none if you roll badly. Powerfists add the extra clout needed to subdue vehicles.

The only issue I see is that your moving your units into first rank fire, second rank fire range. On top of that if your deploying said 18" away, who says you have first turn of which will most likely end in your death at that range. How much fire power can a IG list bring at that range. On top of that, what if they are mech guard as I see them just driving past your assault marines while removing your only two troops units to win the game hands down.


Anothing thing is that if you do assault the blob unit, who is to say that he does not kill the commissar off to cause the unit to break. Now your looking at Shriek and your entire foot army gone on turn two or three.

Just poking at you as I am a guard player and would love to clean this easy SM list off the board.

It seems to me that something like this would be more shrikes speed (if you forgive the pun).

Kayvaan Shrike – 195


Sternguard vet squad+10 combi meltas +DP=335

10 Scouts BP + combat blade+PF = 165
10 Scouts BP + combat blade+PF = 165
10 Scouts BP + combat blade+PF = 165
total:495
assault squad+PF=215

4man scout bike squad+ Cluster mines + pf + meltabombs = 130
4man scout bike squad+ Cluster mines + pf + meltabombs = 130
Total: 475

total:1500 on the nose

the only problem is the annoying tendancy for guard to not setup on the first turn, due to the INSANE tactical benefit of the astropathx2 ploy (or even just one astropath), so 3 first turn charges, a drop pod hitting first turn, and scouts setting up for second turn charges might not do anything, especially against an airborne valk list.

Really like the idea of making it a can opener, with the edition of flamers taking on bigger units.

New SM Codex only allows you to take 1 Powerfist in a squad and only given to your Sergeant,
Combi-weapons only available certain units unfortunately, Assault squads are NOT one of them..

Removing the Vanguard unit gives me (235), Locator beacon (10), All power swords (30).. Totals 275

Purchasing as best I could within the codexs restrictions it now stands as follows


HQ

Kayvaan Shrike (195) joins unit marked with *1


TROOPS

1 Marine Sergeant with Combi Melta & 5 Tactical Marines (156)
Razorback with Twin-linked Heavy bolter

1 Marine Sergeant with Combi Melta & 5 Tactical Marines (156)
Razorback with Twin-linked Heavy bolter,

1 Marine Sergeant with Combi Melta, Melta bombs
9 Tactical Marines with 1 Melta-gun, 1 Multi-melta, Drop pod (225)


FAST ATTACK

1 Marine Sergeant with Powerfist & 7 Assault Marines, Flamer (189) *1
1 Marine Sergeant with Powerfist & 8 Assault Marines, Flamer (207)


HVY SUPPORT

Thunderfire Cannon (100)
Predator: Turret; Auto-cannon, Sponsons; Lascannons, Extra Armour (135)
Predator: Turret; Auto-cannon, Sponsons; Lascannons, Extra Armour (135)

TOTAL 1, 498

I don't like making lists to beat lists.. I like the fluff behind an army before i build one.
Its just that after a few games of getting my backside handed to me over and over again.

With your advice guys its put the "Surprise.. C*ck Face" back into gaming. Nice one fellas


Automatically Appended Next Post:
rdlb.. bless your standard issue socks,


Firstly I'll give you that.. Guard can provide far move standard fire support than most other armies can rapid fire

Though once I'm charging your 1st rank troops.. Then keeping locked up with your standard 30 stubborn guardsmen for the next turn or two takes away the issue of from being shot at by your 2nd rank fire range.

Then in my turn I basically just charge the next unit and so on.. and so on. All guard players have that same issue when they get beat. I'm sure GW hand out "handling losses" to all IG players.

Loving the banter mate, its great.. but like the great Chris Tucker once said "Wipe yourself off.. You dead!"

Or you could take like:

Emperor's Champion with that vow we always take.
3 10 man Assault Squads with 2 flamers and all equipped with meltabombs
As many maxed Crusader w/Neophyte Squads that you can get on the table...I guess you can give them stuff if you want.

RX Ghost.. no disrespect just I'm not sure what your on about..

Vows are
Suffer Not The Unclean To Live (+1 St but -1 Int) & Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds (always hits on 3's)
Seems to be the better choice now for Black Templar lists not SM lists

Uphold The Honour of the Emperor (6+ invulnerable save but can't take cover saves and cannot be pinned)
No point as cover saves are better 4+ and when NOT if you attach a Chaplain they can't be pinned anyway

Abhor The Witch, Destroy The Witch (Each unit moves D6" after deployment if enemy has psyker)
No real benefit to army as the Righteous Zeal move with Crusader Seals can move you further any way.


I also play Black Templars but since the "New Edition" rules came out. Theres no point to the Righteous Zeal move as you cannot move into contact with a new enemy as you have to stop 1" away. New rules stop it as its classed as a consolidating..

I've found that you either
Enemy turn Deploy 24" away They move 6" They shoot you, make you move closer up to D6" Then assault whats left
Templar turn Deploy 24" away You move 6" You run up to 6" Can't assault as not within range or have Fleet
or you Deploy 24" away You move 12" You run up to 6" Can't assault as not within range or have Fleet


Even though by moving in movement phase, running in shooting phase and Righteous Zeal move in enemy turn. Your enemy can now "Pluck units" and get all the benefits as they need to do is bully one unit at a time by "Plucking them from your battle line"

You cannot take Emperor Champion's in a normal SM List. At least with Shrike and this list now you can assault as quick as what Black Templars did in the last edition.. In one big "Swoop" like in Shrike fluff told in stories.

Pappa Shango wrote:Kayvaan Shrike (195) joins unit marked with *1
TROOPS
1 Marine Sergeant with Combi Melta & 5 Tactical Marines (156)
Razorback with Twin-linked Heavy bolter

1 Marine Sergeant with Combi Melta & 5 Tactical Marines (156)
Razorback with Twin-linked Heavy bolter,

1 Marine Sergeant with Combi Melta, Melta bombs
9 Tactical Marines with 1 Melta-gun, 1 Multi-melta, Drop pod (225)

FAST ATTACK
1 Marine Sergeant with Powerfist & 7 Assault Marines, Flamer (189) *1
1 Marine Sergeant with Powerfist & 8 Assault Marines, Flamer (207)

HVY SUPPORT
Thunderfire Cannon (100)
Predator: Turret; Auto-cannon, Sponsons; Lascannons, Extra Armour (135)
Predator: Turret; Auto-cannon, Sponsons; Lascannons, Extra Armour (135)

This is exactly what I was suggesting with the razorback combi's & the powerfist sgt's bar one thing; Drop one set of lascannon sponsons to buy extra assault marines to max out shrikes squad. Drop extra-armor on both predators (moving only benifits tanks that are going to be hit in close-combat or tanks that can move incredibly fast. Predators cant move fast nor are they at risk from close-combat attacks from guard and being long-range tanks as they are, moving isnt much of a muchness) to max out the second squad.

Though once I'm charging your 1st rank troops.. Then keeping locked up with your standard 30 stubborn guardsmen for the next turn or two takes away the issue of from being shot at by your 2nd rank fire range.

The thing here is that the commissar can be issued a wound and if he failed said wound. Then the unit would no longer be stubborn after your charge. Thus you would wipe this unit out and or they would get away. After that, the return fire would clean the unit off.

Tarval wrote:

Though once I'm charging your 1st rank troops.. Then keeping locked up with your standard 30 stubborn guardsmen for the next turn or two takes away the issue of from being shot at by your 2nd rank fire range.

The thing here is that the commissar can be issued a wound and if he failed said wound. Then the unit would no longer be stubborn after your charge. Thus you would wipe this unit out and or they would get away. After that, the return fire would clean the unit off.

LIES LIES LIES LIES.

Ahem. Sorry.

The commissar (along with squad sgt. power weapons, squad special weapons, heavy weapon, krak, etc) are all unit upgrades compared to having the independant character status - We are definetely not talking about the Lord Comissar whom is an entirely different kettle of fish with his bubble - which means he is essentially untargetable and must be allocated wounds as per the wound allocation section of the rulebook...

All this means; You generally have 20-25 ablative guardsmen wounds in a 3-strong blobbed infantry squads before you start reaching useful models like heavy weapon teams and commissars. Now ofcource as the unit looses guardsmen, that wound threshold goes down so you may end up being to equally allocate wounds on models like the commissar before you un out of guardsmen entirely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lazy Edit: A full 10man assault squad (with 2x flamers and a sgt w/ a p.fist) will kill about 12 guardsmen on the charge, after saves. Now that leaves 8 bolt pistols and two flamers to kill under 18-20 other models. The bolt pistols should take down about 3.6 guardsmen and the flamers (assuming a lenient 6 per template) will kill 8 more.. thats a total of roughly 24 models dead before the guard get to strike back (and not including shrike if he's with them).. THIS means that the guard will do negliable damage in return but will get finished off during thier turn which means the assault squad is protected from return fire. In this way, against such a strong squad, stubborn is a liability. Edit mk.2: So if it looks like you are going to get shelved (and loose the squad easily during your own assault phase.. then simply allocate a wounds on the commissar and then watch as your sqaud dies horribly to sweeping advance... and then watch as your entire gunline opens up on the exposed assault sqaud.

however, it must be stated that only one wound can be allocated to the Commissar(unless they do 60+ wounds to your 30 man unit, and then really, who cares), who has a 5+ save, so if you are going to allocate wounds to the commisar, make sure it ignores saves, or else the commissar might make that 5+ and the assault squad gets a turn of protection for the remnants of your squad on your shooting turn.

as to the flamers and bolt pistols taking down 8 guardsmen... I though they were fleeting?