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Ok so i've been thinking about which army I really want to play as I have made a lot of armies then been distracted. After a close competion between BA and SW I decided that as Space Wolves have a new codex and BA haven't had a proper codex in a while that SW where the better choice.

However I don't like going with the same army as everyone else and soon we will be seeing hundreds of blue/grey marines so I want to go with a SW successor chapter.

So I was wondering what sort of situations require the forming of a new chapter (A problem requires its own SM chapter or as a reward ect...). If anyone knows anything about how they are formed like who leads the chapter, whether they choose or are given a planet and whether they take existing marines from other chapters to start with or if they form all their own space marines

As you can see I don't know very much on the subject and any information would be very helpful.

The devourer

Most common Reason seems to be a replacement for a lost chapter.
Since the geneseed is stored away in the solar system and the high lords have their hands on it, i may assume every chapter formed
after M 33 was done under the influence of the gathered adeptus.
Some chapters were founded to replace losses, others to guard a specific location.

Now, DIY are easy to form with codex space marines, possible with codex Dark Angels and Codex Blood Angels.
For Black templars its really unlikely since they are IF and act as crusade ( ignore size restrictions ).
But your choice was Space wolves and they suffer a bit from having only one successor and this one is also not undebated.

I rthink it could be enough diversity to have your own grand company. The given freedom of a lord may allow a different color
and i doubt youre in trouble if you stay away from some not-so-eye-friendly colors.

Ok thanks 1hadhq

I've also been looking at lost companies. I'm not sure how independant SW companies or lost companies are as SW are structured quite different from most SM chapters.

I would imagine they would be missing a lot of the elements provided by other companies - mostly in the fast attack and elites areas.

Fluff-wise, SW only had one successor chapter, the Wolf Brothers, and they had defective genes and were wiped out. Leman Russ wouldn't follow codex and split his chapter up like the other primarchs, that's why they've got such a different organisation to everyone else.

A Lost Company of Space Wolves would work, but implies that they'd still use SW markings, so you'd still be painting blue-grey marines!

However, there's no reason why you couldn't invent another 'feral' chapter and use space wolf rules. Loads of people have done norse-themed chapters. They don't HAVE to be Space Wolf successors, and you get to invent whatever fluff you like and paint them a completely different way!

Hhhmmm I thinks thats what im going to do. I would have a unique chapter and cool rules, sounds great. The convertions could be fun but I guess i'll find a way.

cheers for the help

simple join my chapter. it has stolen scouts from other chapters so it can have a SW codex

ArbitorIan wrote:Fluff-wise, SW only had one successor chapter, the Wolf Brothers, and they had defective genes and were wiped out. Leman Russ wouldn't follow codex and split his chapter up like the other primarchs, that's why they've got such a different organisation to everyone else.

A Lost Company of Space Wolves would work, but implies that they'd still use SW markings, so you'd still be painting blue-grey marines!

However, there's no reason why you couldn't invent another 'feral' chapter and use space wolf rules. Loads of people have done norse-themed chapters. They don't HAVE to be Space Wolf successors, and you get to invent whatever fluff you like and paint them a completely different way!

Yeah!QFT.When the codex comes out I'm going to make a chapter called the Wolves of Russ

No reason why the SW couldn't spawn a new chapter just because one was a failure.

The Highlords tend to "experiment" from time to time with new chapters that use a combination of gene seed from multiple primarchs. These chapters are then seconded to another chapter for training of their neophytes until they have enough troops to take over their own recruitment.

While I'm certain that the High Lords of Terra would be very leery of letting the Space Wolves train anybody, a chapter based on a feral world could easily descend into a low tech state with debased, non codex organization if they suffer enough casualties early on.

At that stage the chapter won't have much of a set tradition, and will still be reconciling the feral traditions of its home world with the training from its host chapter.

If enough of the 1st company and leaders are killed, the remaining troops would fall back on their feral roots. They may not have time for the formal training, or there may not be enough veterans around to give it. So life becomes, "Welcome to the Ghost Bears. Here is your chain sword and bolt pistol. There is your enemy. Go get 'em."

Of course your chapter may intentionally choose to discard the teachings of the Codex Asartes for other, more mysterious reasons...

My own solution, in preparation for the upcoming codex, was the creation of the Ice Panthers Chapter (still just a working title).

Raised from Ultramarines genestock (hey, the Ultras ARE my primary force ), they sport Codex markings for Company, Squad Type and Squad Number,but follow the Space Wolf fighting style and organisation. In fluff terms, they venerate Guilliman as their Father, but Russ as their Teacher.

Colour-wise, yes I have gone with a blue-grey scheme (to match the conditions on their homeworld and chapter name) so in that respect I guess I sold out to the puppies (I've thrown a test mini in the P&M forum)

Of course, once the Codex comes out I might have to change some details, but it'll do for now.

You can always go with saying they are unknown founding chapters. Its been stated in one codex (which one I can't really remember ) that there was a whole period of time in imperial records that went missing (probably a new inquisitor hit delete by accident) and ,as such, no one knows what kinds of chapters or how many were formed. This gives you the opportunity to go nuts fluff wise!

I think I saw something similar in an old SM codex. It listed a lot of SM chapters but there were atleast two records lost chapters.

Durandal wrote:If enough of the 1st company and leaders are killed, the remaining troops would fall back on their feral roots.

During the Battle of Macragge,The whole first company was wiped out.Yet the Ultramarines still could fight. And traditons is what makes a chapter unique.The iron hands have a tradition that they cut thier hands among other chapters

In Death Guard their primarch mentioned they absorb poisons and deal with lethal environments better than anyone - which became their core capability for the Emp, he sent them where other marines would struggle (according to the primarch)

Then of course he fed noxius poison to one of his captains who predated the location of the primarch and came from an earlier chapter the Dusk Raiders and that captain was perfectly able to handle all the environs his troops fought in, suggesting all marines able to handle all environs

So why type all that - I like the themed idea - the ice panthers suggested above is a great theme, another great theme I saw was the black dragon chapter who grow horns and coat them in adamantium or some such - think if you choose a chapter name and give it its own fluff its a good approach

Lots of vanilla chapters in the codex to look at

Another part of me wanted to do one of the gold chapters - think of 50 marines in solid gold power armour - would look awesome!

Loricatus Aurora wrote:
So why type all that - I like the themed idea - the ice panthers suggested above is a great theme, another great theme I saw was the black dragon chapter who grow horns and coat them in adamantium or some such - think if you choose a chapter name and give it its own fluff its a good approach

Are marines allowed horns, I know they're allowed pointy teeth, but horns? At what point does having pointy extremities become heretically mutatious?

Thanks for all the info about chapters. I've been in a real dilema about which army I should start but as I have lots of SM models and spares it is very helpful.

I'm not dedicated to the fluff so I am happy to shift the facts a bit such as making a SW successor, but this really depends on what army I choose in the end.

Another part of me wanted to do one of the gold chapters - think of 50 marines in solid gold power armour - would look awesome!

That sounds great. As i'm after an elite army I may borrow (steal) this idea for colours.

ArbitorIan wrote:Fluff-wise, SW only had one successor chapter, the Wolf Brothers, and they had defective genes and were wiped out. Leman Russ wouldn't follow codex and split his chapter up like the other primarchs, that's why they've got such a different organisation to everyone else.

A Lost Company of Space Wolves would work, but implies that they'd still use SW markings, so you'd still be painting blue-grey marines!

However, there's no reason why you couldn't invent another 'feral' chapter and use space wolf rules. Loads of people have done norse-themed chapters. They don't HAVE to be Space Wolf successors, and you get to invent whatever fluff you like and paint them a completely different way!

Why couldn't the space wolves just split their forces to create a successor chapter instead of starting over with new gene seed? Since Leman Russ didn't follow codex about spliting his chapter the chances of the space wolves having more than a 1000 marines is pretty high. There could be a possiblity that there are some undefective wolf brothers running around out there but I doubt it. I wish they would change the SM codex to inculde options for feral, and non codex marines so that theyh don't seem so...vanallia

I've created several succesor chapters, mainly the Metal Marines, who are dishonoured marines that were banished from there chapters, but are still loyal to the emperor, so sort of all band together, strip their armour of colour and go around in bare adamantium.
There are also the Hazard Marines, who specialise is dispatching high-risk, hard to kill horde armies such as Orks or Tyranids. There fluff revolves around the aftermath of the Battle for Macragge, the Imperium decided that they needed chapter that could deal with nids and so forth. So the Hazard Marines were born, decended from Ultramarines gene-seed. Anyways, there's a little inspiration. Now, enough of me yacking on!

I wish they would change the SM codex to inculde options for feral, and non codex marines so that theyh don't seem so...vanallia

Thats exactly my problem with the marine codex at the moment. Some chapters have an entire galaxy between them, are taught very different things and have completely differetn ideas about war but they still all play the same. Some codexs can easily be themed but unfortunately Space Marine units are set out in a way that makes this very hard. I have been trying for a long time to make an individual feeling chapter, its the reason i've decided to try out other SM codexs.

Its a bit of a shame really as I really like a lot of the other fluff about marines.

Oh and in a last minute decision change i've gone and ordered some assult marines for a BA successor army

Loricatus Aurora wrote:In Death Guard their primarch mentioned they absorb poisons and deal with lethal environments better than anyone - which became their core capability for the Emp, he sent them where other marines would struggle (according to the primarch)

Then of course he fed noxius poison to one of his captains who predated the location of the primarch and came from an earlier chapter the Dusk Raiders and that captain was perfectly able to handle all the environs his troops fought in, suggesting all marines able to handle all environs

So why type all that - I like the themed idea - the ice panthers suggested above is a great theme, another great theme I saw was the black dragon chapter who grow horns and coat them in adamantium or some such - think if you choose a chapter name and give it its own fluff its a good approach

Lots of vanilla chapters in the codex to look at

Another part of me wanted to do one of the gold chapters - think of 50 marines in solid gold power armour - would look awesome!

Actually, the Dusk Raiders where derived from the genetic material of Mortarion that the Emperor (blessed be His name) had left from the loss of the primarchs. They can handle the extreme conditions as well as the newer Death Guard because they are both genetically derived from the same source.

tigonesskay wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:Fluff-wise, SW only had one successor chapter, the Wolf Brothers, and they had defective genes and were wiped out. Leman Russ wouldn't follow codex and split his chapter up like the other primarchs, that's why they've got such a different organisation to everyone else.

A Lost Company of Space Wolves would work, but implies that they'd still use SW markings, so you'd still be painting blue-grey marines!

However, there's no reason why you couldn't invent another 'feral' chapter and use space wolf rules. Loads of people have done norse-themed chapters. They don't HAVE to be Space Wolf successors, and you get to invent whatever fluff you like and paint them a completely different way!

Why couldn't the space wolves just split their forces to create a successor chapter instead of starting over with new gene seed? Since Leman Russ didn't follow codex about spliting his chapter the chances of the space wolves having more than a 1000 marines is pretty high. There could be a possiblity that there are some undefective wolf brothers running around out there but I doubt it. I wish they would change the SM codex to inculde options for feral, and non codex marines so that theyh don't seem so...vanallia

The problem is that if the High Lords don't approve they won't give gene-seed