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I really want to include a librarian in my list, to back up my assault terminators. and provide null zone, as well as lay down some sweet, sweet AP3 template love. I've been using him with a unit of 9 sternguard in a rhino. This unit costs over 400 points, and its mobility and thus its effectiveness is entirely dependent on a 35 point rhino. Once they are disembarked, they don't have the mobility to keep up with the land raider unit, and the terminators normally have to assault by themselves, without the covering fire of sternguard to keep them from being overwhelmed in hand to hand.

Several games i've played, the librarian just has his rhino blown apart first turn, once my opponents understand whats in it. Then they are targetted by plasma cannons/battle cannons, and then they are dead. Because of this (fairly major) flaw, i'm trying to consider alternative methods of deploying a librarian... I was trying to decide between mounting him with an assault squad, or letting him ride with a squad of bikers. Eventually, I decided to just throw him in with an assault squad, because bikers are just too expensive, monetarily and points wise... I'm going to use him in the following configuration:

Librarian (null zone, avenger) w/ jump pack - 125 pts
10x Assault marines (2x flamer, thunder hammer) - 240 pts

fairly cheap squad, and I think it will prove even more effective vs horde enemies, because of its close combat abilities (orks beware...)

of course, its not without its flaws, but I think I have enough armor in my list for this unit to hide behind. if any of my other rhinos are blown apart, its OK, because the tactical marines can handle themselves at range (heavy / special weapons)



my question to you is, do you think this will be effective? what other ways could I use the librarian?

You're halfway there with null zone, I'm just not a fan of Avenger. Libby's don't hold up well enough in HtH anymore for me to like the Assault Squad.
Since you had him with a 400+point unit anyway, have you tried him with 10 terms, 2 cyclones, TDA, and gate+null zone?

thats great, but the point was to cut down the points :(

the sternguard was expensive and lacked manuverability, and it was only 340 ish points... that terminator setup would run 460 + librarian upgrades... sheer crazyness.

that and I don't have the models for it

and yea, the librarian might get his ass spanked in hand to hand, but thats going to happen to matter what I do with him if I use sternguard, because for them to rapid fire they have to get close, and then they are going to end up being assaulted, and the librarian will still be picked out.

avenger is quite sexy though.. it pops marines like nobody's business. if I can get ONE good shot with avenger off on a marines player, I can double the victory points the librarian cost in dead.

I've run a Librarian and a techmarine with a bunch of power weapon armed Vanguard for a fairly cheap all-power-weapon squad for mulching horde squads. Of course, I've been pouring them out of a LR Crusader rather than gate them. I had two 10-man Tactical squads in LR Redeemers to round out the 1500pt tournament list. Ran the Librarian with Gate (for late turn Objective contesting) and Might (for CC when facing single wound models).

Was pretty successful with that set-up, with the "power" squad either tar-pitting or finishing off opponents during their assault phase (and nicely avoiding being shot at). The Tacticals either combat squad'd to guard an objective behind 3+ cover (2 squads of 5 seem to have more staying power that 1 squad of 10), or stayed together in kill point games. The Redeemers were ... not well received by my opponents. Most people just aren’t prepared to face a Tri-Raider/Anti-MEQ list.

SJ

Well, I found that a Librarian works well with a large foot slogging unit of Termies, normal or assault.
However, if you want to transport the Termies in a Land Raider and bring it straight into the thickest melee,
then I'd hesitate to include a Librarian,
since this guy is not a melee fighter and you might loose him early in the game.

I use him in terminator armour, with a storm shield as a soaker for weaker squadmembers. The pwoers I give him are dependant on the setup of the army. I even remember using machine curse once on him. I usually go with Avenger and somethin else, Might of the Ancients or Gate fo Infinity. THe added bonus of the Termi armour is that you can use Vortex of Doom after moving, too.

one thing i can tell you and you may already know this is not having a Inv on the Libby can ruin your day in more ways then one.

i tend to lose him to alot of AP 3 weapons. because of this i would take Termie armor and SS. this allows you to use your force weapon behine the SS and the 2+ save. with this config you can use him in any capacity you want. nice price too at only 140 pts.

Libraians are support charactors not assault charectors, leave that to Captains and Chaplains.

as far as powers go it dependes on the opponent. Smite is good against Meqs and hordes. same goes for The Avenger.

Machine Curse is good for facing a mech army. using it is good for whittling away at any heavy tanks. (also the only way the Libby can have any good anti tank, Vortex is a little too random, if you can get it to hit )

Vortex of doom, great for hordes and MEQs if it doesnt scatter. Also gives YOU a chance to say DOOOOM, (panzy eldar )

Null Zone can make opponents grit their teeth in anguish, use it when when they wont get any armor saves and wach them die.

Word of Warning, if facing eldar be careful when meking your Psychic test, they have that thing that makes you roll 3D6 for the test .
if thats the case just kep you librarian within 24" of the Farseer and use the Psychic Hood, Personally i think its the best thing on the Librarian,

Eldar says DOOOOM. Lib says no you dont. Eldar says Lib says HA,HA,HA

Can't see why everyone loves Null Zone. A friend and I have entered a tournament, and I ran a librarian with 6 sternies with Gate and VOD. Worked out really well, just hid him and jumped around.

MC

I played against a daemon player yesterday with my army. my librarian (with sternguard) helped to crush him utterly. bolters ripped his bloodletters and horrors apart, from regular SM infantry.

when you have a 5+ save that you have to re-roll, you might as well not even have a save.

it also ensured my terminators ripped his daemon prince / plaguebearers to shreds... the librarian won me that game.

I like the Librarian with a medium-large sized unit of Sternguard in a Drop Pod. I kit him out with Avenger. This unit can trash just about any MEQ on the Table and with the drop pod they can go right for the throat of an enemy army 1st turn and wreck it. I like to run 5 pods with 2 Multi-Melta Dreads with Heavy Flamers. These three units can hit hard on the first turn and usually wreck enough enemy vehicles/infantry squads to prevent a well coordinated counter-attack. The two Tac Marine squads in the backup pods come in to support later on, grab objectives and help fortify the position.

I usually run a cheap 100 point librarian with Null Zone and Avenger in a LRC with Assault Terminators. In my experience, he dies whenever he leaves the vehicle, so be warned.

thats why i'm planning on putting mine with an assault squad, instead of in the raider with the terminators. the terminators are my primary assault force, they hit the scariest enemy unit out there. the librarian and assault squad smack into weaker surrounding units, preventing them from swamping the terminators.

I run Blood Ravens and, wanting to be fluffy, run a librarian.

I put him in terminator armor, give him vortex and gate, a storm bolter and throw him in with a standard termie squad (although I switch between a few powers, usually its either smite, avenger, gate, or vortex). The rest of the list is 5 drop pods of 3 tac squads and 2 dreads, plus 3 speeders with typhoon/heavy bolter.
I have had a good deal of success with this list and my libby termie has been doing very well (as long as there are some other termie meat shields with him). I have only once used the gate/vortex combo in the same turn, but when I did, it was pretty sweet. Popped right next to some deamons, boltered the crap out of them, vortex hit on target, and assult cannon mowed them down quite quickly.

The libby I take has been doing well enough to the point I want to keep him permanetly in my army. I was considering adding a second one into one of the drop pod units (12 capacity) with machine curse and avenger. Its an extra hundred points (so goodbye to a speeder) but it may be worth looking into.

Thats just what I run. I can vouch for the effectiveness of the librarian in either a shooting or a combat role. However, if you want to use Tigurius, I would put some serious protection on him. He's a badass, but the reroll reserves is, as far as I have seen, his most usefull trait.

My $1.17 (cause I wrote a bit more then 2 cents)

Cheers

I generally use my librarian with a squad of sternguard (2 combi meltas, sarge w/ powerfist and boltgun (so he still gets the special ammo )). I find it best to give him the epistolary upgrade so he can use gate of infinity and force dome (trust me this comes in handy when your being shot at with ap3 template weapons while in deep strike formation) in the same turn.

Uhm...I'm not sure if anybody emphasized it, but the Gate mixed with Sternguard and possibly a teleport homer drop pod or two seems like a no brainer. Giving the libby a Storm Shield allows him to try to soak a stray wound or two that the sternguard may take.

whitedragon wrote:Uhm...I'm not sure if anybody emphasized it, but the Gate mixed with Sternguard and possibly a teleport homer drop pod or two seems like a no brainer. Giving the libby a Storm Shield allows him to try to soak a stray wound or two that the sternguard may take.

Yes, I did forget to mention that. All of my sarges and pods have homers/beacons on them. This is not only for the reserves but also for the GoI tactic.

Although I like the idea of putting a libby with stern guard with force dome. Could be handy used for a good range kill squad.


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Also, as far as I know, you cant give libbys a storm shield. Its not part of their wargear options.

You can if you buy them TDA. However, that with Epistolary upgrade is 190 points, making them pretty pricey.

Put the Librarian and Sternguard in a Drop Pod take a take scout with teleport homers and he can jump around with Gate of Infinity to best support the Assault Termiantors

I use the bare-bones 100 point librarian with Gate as a backup for squads stranded by transport destruction in my mech army. He can also gate squads out of HtH, Veil of Darkness style. I think the stripped-down librarian is the best HQ choice for a mech army that's heavy with tacticals and vehicles.

Usually for a second power I take null zone, but if I were running sternguard I'd do force dome.

If you are set on running an HQ with your assault squad, go with a chaplin for the re-roll hits in HTH when charging.

I run a Terminator libby w SS and put it in my LRC with 7 assault terminators. Very expensive and powerful unit. Nullzone and psychic hood help guarrantee they do not get stopped in assault. I use avenger for the template goodness. I don't like smite as much since it uses standard marine BS.

I love running a Librarian with 6 sternguard with combi-meltas, and having him with GOI and VOD. The gate gets him close to units, and in a 500 pt game, VOD owns on 10 man squads.

MC

I run a 100 point Null Zone/Avenger librarian. At 1500-1850, he runs with a small combat squad, sergeant with powerfist, as a counter assault unit. I find the lower number of attacks and I4 doesn't matter so much after he drops that S5, AP3 flame template to thin out the enemies numbers.

So far, i've had quite good luck with my librarian... and he's with an awesome looking squad (check out my thread in the p&m section on them)

but the unit drops 3 flamer templates out, and then follows it up with an assload of attacks in hand to hand, then follows that up with some thunder hammer strikes from the sarge... its the ultimate weapon against anything other than nobs. (I'd hazard a guess that it would beat the crap out of terminators... that many attacks, followed by power weapon hits, would probably cause them to fail alot of saves)

Personally, I run a fluff army with a Legion squad, I run my libby with them:
Libby-termy armor, storm shield, Gate and VoD or Avenger
5 Legion, multimelta, melta, sarge with fist

everyone has a 3+ invul save, even in CC, can jump and fire all weapons every turn, with reroll DS. I just jump from vehicle back, to vehicle back and laugh as my opponent tries like hell to kill the bahstards off..

Well it doesn't take much to kill Legion of the Damned, anything that normall kills MEQ through weight of fire will will kill the Legion all the same.

My issue with them is: why do you assume you get the RR fo DS? As a permissive rules set, adding a libby who is not a LoTD seems wierd to take that RR when not everybody has that rule in the squad.

/shrug, whatever, it's a fluffy/fun choice.

Most people have been pointing towards the right tips for libbys.

It should be clear to all that the chaplain and the librarian are "buff" characters. They don't really do anything on their own, but supply advantages to the units they join (or are near)

The chaplain is an easy to decipher buffer. he goes with close combat units. Termie chaplain in assault terminator unit, jump chaplain in vanguard or assault marine unit, bike chaplain in bike command squad, naked chaplain in naked command squad, walking vanguard and honor guard squads.

The librarian is a bit harder to decipher because he has a bunch of psychic abilities to choose from, and some seem to support a close combat role. The trick is, that the best powers he has, the ones that make him worth taking are NOT the CC ones, or the assault weapon one.

Librarians get their power from null zone, gate of infinity, and vortex of doom (only when relentless)

These powers all compliment shooty units, and are powerful enough that you would never want to lose the librarian in an assault (even a winning one).

I like these librarians and their accompanying units.

null zone/gate of infinity in power armor joined to sternguard in drop pod
null zone/vortex of doom on bike joined to a bike squad
gate of infinity/vortex of doom in terminator armor with storm shield joined to a heavy flamer/chainfist termie squad deep striking

The first unit is pretty widely known. Able to land and dismantle infanty units in cover. also has a one-time vehicle kill shot. Null zone makes demon units succeptable to the bolter shots, and makes terminators fall to the combi-meltas. Gate obviously allows you to do your "trick" more than once.

The second one I've seen more than once also. Vortex provides a unit with a multi-melta attack bike with a second multi-melta type shot. I prefer double plasma gun on this unit, and then in concert with null zone, it can dismantle thunder hammer termies and bloodcrushers with ease. It doens't need gate because the bikes can go where they need to be retty easily, and with relentless plasma guns and multi-meltas, you don't have to be anywhere near charge range.

The third isn't really the strongest combo, but what it represents is a really hard to kill, really expensive MMHF speeder. You can land and lay out a heavy flamer vortex and some storm bolters, or just the vortex into a vehicle. If you ned up in a relatively safe place, you can charge vehicles with power fist/chain fist, or charge non cc specialists. If the place you are in isn't safe or is about to become unsafe, you can pick up and redeploy. Its cheaper than 10 sternguard with 6 combi-meltas in a drop pod, and a bit more open to improvisation.

I have used a Epistolary with Quickening to "assassinate" enemy character models. Usually put him in a LR with a Terminator Assault squad. Break him off as independent character, fleet charge into a HQ squad or whatever and use the Force weapon to insta-kill one model.

So...that's a Libby at least 150 points.
Too pricey for what he does.
Most guys worth instant killing are immune to it, and everyone else is not worth 150 points to instant kill, a good old fist is a cheaper option.

Chances are, if you kill his HQ, your HQ dies as well. And with the loss of the libby that's also the loss of his hood and other supporting powers.

I say Force weapons are a decent option, but nothing to actually focus on.
To be able to use 2 powers means a crazy expensive upgrade to lvl 2.

well, i'm adding a vindicator to my army to help take advantage of the null zone effect. low AP weapons + null zone seem to be win.