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GoatboyBeta wrote:
Personally I'm hoping its an April fools, because I just cant seem to say "Ceravex" out loud without it sounding like "Cervix"

Glad I'm not the only one who stumbled on that.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Aash wrote:

 Insularum wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
If they did, then even the Termagant sheet is wonky since it says "7+" for Leadership.

Lower is better, as in you must roll over the characteristic to pass the test (bringing leadership in line with all other characteristic tests, roll over the threshold to pass). Gaunt, 7+ to pass.

That’s certainly the assumption everyone appears to be making (myself included), but AFAIK it is just an assumption and not officially confirmed.

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned on stream. Otherwise there's no way termagants who were LD5 before are now LD8 without specific reasons for it.

They specifically stated that in the Adepticon reveal.

ERJAK wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Aash wrote:

 Insularum wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
If they did, then even the Termagant sheet is wonky since it says "7+" for Leadership.

Lower is better, as in you must roll over the characteristic to pass the test (bringing leadership in line with all other characteristic tests, roll over the threshold to pass). Gaunt, 7+ to pass.

That’s certainly the assumption everyone appears to be making (myself included), but AFAIK it is just an assumption and not officially confirmed.

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned on stream. Otherwise there's no way termagants who were LD5 before are now LD8 without specific reasons for it.

They specifically stated that in the Adepticon reveal.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/warhammer-preview-online-at-adepticon-2023-watch-the-live-stream-now/

So far as I can tell from the twitch video here, the only mention of morale and battle shock are at 1:21:57 - 1:24:10 (morale phase gone and now morale is in the Command Phase, called battle shock, doesn’t remove models etc.)
And 1:28:18 - 1:33:20 they discuss the new datasheets where we can see the termagant has Ld 8+, but they don’t mention the Leadership stat at all or how you test leadership/morale.

So where is it that we are supposedly told how to check morale in 10th and that a lower number is better?

I also don't remember any of the like - the only thing they said was a vague (paraphrasing) "units will become less reliable when they lose members", but no explanation beyond that.

Aash wrote:

So far as I can tell from the twitch video here, the only mention of morale and battle shock are at 1:21:57 - 1:24:10 (morale phase gone and now morale is in the Command Phase, called battle shock, doesn’t remove models etc.)
And 1:28:18 - 1:33:20 they discuss the new datasheets where we can see the termagant has Ld 8+, but they don’t mention the Leadership stat at all or how you test leadership/morale.

So where is it that we are supposedly told how to check morale in 10th and that a lower number is better?

I suspect that it was from one of the rumour roundups, rather than from the actual reveal.

I'm not sure that we actually need a specific, official confirmation here, though. The fact that leadership is [x]+, and Termagants have gone from LD 5 to LD 8+ pretty much guarantees that it's going to work that way.

 insaniak wrote:

Aash wrote:

So far as I can tell from the twitch video here, the only mention of morale and battle shock are at 1:21:57 - 1:24:10 (morale phase gone and now morale is in the Command Phase, called battle shock, doesn’t remove models etc.)
And 1:28:18 - 1:33:20 they discuss the new datasheets where we can see the termagant has Ld 8+, but they don’t mention the Leadership stat at all or how you test leadership/morale.

So where is it that we are supposedly told how to check morale in 10th and that a lower number is better?

I suspect that it was from one of the rumour roundups, rather than from the actual reveal.

I'm not sure that we actually need a specific, official confirmation here, though. The fact that leadership is [x]+, and Termagants have gone from LD 5 to LD 8+ pretty much guarantees that it's going to work that way.

I completely agree that it is a reasonable assumption that lower leadership is likely to be better, but I take issue with people passing off assumptions (however reasonable or likely) as confirmed, and when it is repeatedly stated that it was confirmed in a specific article or video feed when it demonstrably wasn’t.

Especially in a thread specifically about rumours and teasing apart what has been confirmed and what is still pending.

My point was that the '+' on the stat effectively does confirm it. If you have to roll above a number, a lower number is always going to be better.

 insaniak wrote:
My point was that the '+' on the stat effectively does confirm it. If you have to roll above a number, a lower number is always going to be better.

My point is that this is only inference, not confirmation. And I do agree that the leadership stat with the + strongly implies that a lower number will be better, but when the subject of if it was confirmed came up in this thread several people have claimed that it was confirmed and specifically pointed to the adepticon video as the source. They didn’t say, the 8+ stat suggests that lower Ld is better, they said it’s been confirmed to be the case.
I’ve simply been correcting that error.

Aash wrote:

I’ve simply been correcting that error.

I appreciate that’s how you see it, but to everybody else you’re just bogging the conversation down in semantic pedantry, apparently with no higher goal than being-right-on-the-Internet TM. Can you roll a d6 for it, or better yet, both just agree to disagree like grown-ups and let the conversation move on?

Roll Three Dice wrote:

Aash wrote:

I’ve simply been correcting that error.

I appreciate that’s how you see it, but to everybody else you’re just bogging the conversation down in semantic pedantry, apparently with no higher goal than being-right-on-the-Internet TM. Can you roll a d6 for it, or better yet, both just agree to disagree like grown-ups and let the conversation move on?

It all started as a side-discussion to the many, many things wrong with that obviously fake Primaris datasheet yesterday, so i'd say we give it a rest now

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/02/sunday-preview-death-conquers-the-mortal-realms/

Join us next week on Warhammer Community for loads of information about the next edition of Warhammer 40,000, including your first look at another new miniature.

Was expecting them to show the Termagant kit next but since it talking about a single miniature it could be one of the characters or a tyranid monster?
Personally I am going with the Lictor as its the only one we didn't get a real look at in the trailer

 Matrindur wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/02/sunday-preview-death-conquers-the-mortal-realms/

Join us next week on Warhammer Community for loads of information about the next edition of Warhammer 40,000, including your first look at another new miniature.

Was expecting them to show the Termagant kit next but since it talking about a single miniature it could be one of the characters or a tyranid monster?
Personally I am going with the Lictor as its the only one we didn't get a real look at in the trailer

They should continue their streak and preview the Primaris Lieutenant from the starter box next

 Matrindur wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/02/sunday-preview-death-conquers-the-mortal-realms/

Join us next week on Warhammer Community for loads of information about the next edition of Warhammer 40,000, including your first look at another new miniature.

Was expecting them to show the Termagant kit next but since it talking about a single miniature it could be one of the characters or a tyranid monster?
Personally I am going with the Lictor as its the only one we didn't get a real look at in the trailer

Good pic of lictor in video

Given that Leadership in Necromunda is written as 'x+' and is rolled on 2d6, it seems like a safe assumption that this is the model 40k will follow as well.

For this sunday update, we'll return to the Pastebin of the summary of the 'leaked' 50-page-document for a bit and compare its contents to stuff about 10th we already know...

GENERAL INFORMATION

- Terrain can be destroyed
- Almost all mechanics work on D6 rolls
- There are rules for rerolls and +/- 1 modifiers
- New mechanic called Advantage/Disadvantage
- Advantage means rolls of 6 are 'critical'
- Advantage stacks, so double Advantage means 5 and 6 are 'critical'
- Advantage/Disadvantage cancel each other out
- 'Criticals' count as additional successes, can trigger additional things

There is no evidence of any of this yet, outside of the trivial fact that most rolls work on a D6. Advantage/Disadvantage sounds like the core concept of the whole edition, yet we have not seen any mention of it for now.

ATTACK SEQUENCE

- Disadvantage means that 6 is a 'Glancing' hit
- 'Glancing' means not outright failure, you can combine Glances to still get some hits
- Attack sequence is hit - damage - saves - invulnerable saves
- Hit scores are fixed, modified by Advantage/Disadvantage
- To calculate Advantage/Disadvantage compare Hit traits with enemy Evade traits
- Pairings are Rapid Fire/Dodge, Tracker/Speed, True Grit/Jinx, Seeker/Obscured, Pulse/Flicker
- Unnegated Evade traits give Disadvantage
- Two Glances to Hit are one success
- Determine damage before saves
- Armour saves are fixed, modified by Advantage/Disadvantage
- Compare Armour traits with Penetrate traits to calculate Advantage/Disadvantage
- Pairings are Armored/Penetrating, Shielded/Fusion, Aegis/Infused, Artificer/Killshot
- Examples given: Power weapons are penetrating, Melta is Fusion, Infused is Force weapons, Snipers are Killshot
- There are two 'Wildcard' traits: Veteran Instincts for Hit, Hardened for Save
- Two Glances to Save are one Save
- Damage spills over but this is often limited by weapon rules
- Invulnerable saves after, and in addition to armour saves
- Mortal Wounds still exist and circumvent all this
- Traits can have tiers, and need a appropriate-tiered counter-trait to cancel them
- Weapon profiles are not uniform, a bolter on a Captain has different rules than a bolter on a Guardsman
- There are a number of rules that give Advantage/Disadvantage directly
- Blast weapons work by doing additional damage on critical successes

Again, we have seen some weapons now, but no mention of any sort of trait, either evasive or other. On the other hand, the old-style AP system seems to remain in existence, so we can probably discount most of this as fabricated.

UNIT PROFILES

- Profiles are completely redesigned
- General structure of the Profile now follows the Phases
- Profile layout:
- Stats and Picture
- Then boxes for every phase
- Boxes have Special Rules, Weapons, Enhancement slots and Keywords that are relevant in that phase
- Stats: Movement, Evade Traits, Save value + traits, Invulnerable Save value +traits, Wounds, Initiative, Morale
- Weapon profile: Range, Attacks, Hit value + traits, Penetration traitss, Damage, special rules
- Every unit has a 'Morale' special rule
- Morale threshold is when the rule is triggered
- Some recurring rules: Indomitable: no additional result, Shaken: can't get Advantage, Attrition, Broken: unit destroyed
- ATSKNF is a special Morale rule and better than Shaken

And again, most of this turned out not to be true: the only thing that is oriented by phase so far is the split between ranged and melee weapons, and again the traits are completely absent. Also, there is no Initiative stat contrary to the claims in this document, while there is a new OC stat that the document seems to fail to mention. Also absent from the datasheets we have seen so far are the 'unit morale special rules', enhancment slots and such.

ARMY SELECTION

- You select 'Battle Profiles' from your roster datasheet
- 'Battle Profile' contains all the information you need to play
- Stratagems are mainly unit upgrades now
- You pay for the availability of Stratagems with Requisition points before the game
- In-game you pay for using them with Command points
- Power levels are completely gone
- Everything uses points now, but most squad loadouts are free
- Powerful loadout options are free, but cost Requisition points instead, e.g. Lascannon, Plasma
- Many Stratagems cost 0 CP to use
- You usually get 2 CP a turn, +1 to go second, +1 if you fulfill a Secondary Mission
- Every army has a Signature Stratagem that is free
- Stratagems take up Enhancement Slots on the Battle Profile
- Relics, Warlord traits and Secondary Missions also take up Enhancement Slots
- Troops have many slots, elite units and tanks only have a few
- Scoring secondary missions gives you Victory points and an additional Command point
- You can only score each Secondary mission once, and only one per turn
- Relics and Warlord traits cost real points too
- All that stuff is supported by a new App
- All armies get new rules in a book called 'Warhosts'
- Subfactions basically gone / merged with factions
- You now build an army by selecting a Detachment
- Detachment rules will tell you which keywords you can include
- Stuff like Relics, Psychic powers etc. now also has keywords
- In practice this means that with the right Detachment, army building is much more flexible
- Instead of playing 'Eldar' you now play a Detachment that mainly contains Eldar, but could have Harlequins, Drukhari etc. as well
- Faction/Subfaction rules are now bound to the Detachment
- Supplements add a lot of keyworded things to represent a specific Chapter etc.
- Due to the keyword structure, stuff for e.g. Orks can also be in the e.g. Space Marine codex

We have not seen enough to comment on this yet.

GRAND TOURNAMENT

- GT allows only one specific faction
- GT is its own thing in organization and troop selection
- GT only allows pre-made Battle Profiles you select from
- The only thing you can change is weapons loadout and some stratagems etc.
- These function like some sort of 'sideboard'
- These GT profiles will rotate each season
- GT Terrain is drawn from a list of Terrain in the GT packs
- GT terrain is symmetrical
- Each player is supposed to bring two GT Terrain sets
- GT Battle Profiles are not in the Codex, but in the GT pack for each season

Can't comment on that either yet.

TERRAIN, COVER AND MOVEMENT

- Terrain rules much clearer
- Three classes: light, hard, fortified
- Three types: area, landmark, obstacle
- You need to discuss what happens with destroyed Terrain
- Line of Sight stays mostly the same
- If you can see any model in a unit, unit is not obscured
- If you can't, unit is hidden
- Cover is much better, offers bonuses both to Evade and Save
- Units within 6'' ignore Cover
- No Cover in Melee
- You only get Cover if fully in Area Terrain, or within 3'' of Terrain and obscured
- All distances are measured horizontally, no diagonal measurement
- Units may move upwards up to their movement allowance in addition to their horizontal movement
- Downwards movement is not limited at all
- Non-Infantry Models need to physically fit everywhere they move unless they have the 'Fleet' special rule
- Heavy Infantry like Terminators also can't ignore Obstacles
- This means that e.g. dragons teeth actually work as intended to stop tanks
- Every player can bring one obstacle and one large terrain piece in addition to mission-specific terrain
- These can be free or paid with points
- Size is a keyword in every Profile
- Not very granular: Light - Solid - Heavy - Superheavy - Titanic
- Terrain can be destroyed by units of different sizes moving through its
- Light can be destroyed by infantry size 'solid' and up
- Hard can be destroyed by terminators, tanks
- Fortified can be destroyed by superheavies
- Area terrain is one level harder to destroy, fortified area terrain is indestructable
- You can move through Light and Solid-size models of your own army
- Tanks can also move through Light enemies
- Blast weapons and weapons with 'Demolish' can also destroy terrain by scoring a number of wounds in a single turn
- There are plastic tokens to mark destroyed terrain etc.

The part about cover etc. could be what is described as the 'Benefits of Cover' on the Termagaunt profile, but it's too early to definitely call that yet. So far, the datasheets have shown no indication about there being defined unit sizes or types like 'solid' and so on, so unless Termagaunts and rippers don't have that it seems like this is also not a thing in 10th edition.

TURN STRUCTURE

- Turn structure is different now
- Battle rounds and turns stay as they are
- Within a turn, you activate units one at a time and go through all phases, in an order you determine
- You can activate several units at once, e.g. characters and units
- Units can skip phases for bonuses or to use them later in e.g. overwatch
- Fight phase cannot be skipped if enemy is in CC range
- Interventions can be used to interrupt an enemy activation
- Overwatch is an intervention that allows you to shoot during an enemy activation
- Units that are within 6'' of an unit that has fought can intervene
- Initiative is used for this
- Melee weapons have lots of attacks, but you usually just fight on your turn
- Melee weapons have a 'reach' stat that determines how many models can fight
- Reach 0: direct contact, Reach 1: contact with a friendly model in direct contact, and so on
- Weapon types have gone, but some, e.g. Pistol, remain as special rules
- Charging is done in the movement phase
- Due to the players chosing phase order each activation, you can shoot before charging, or even after fighting

We have not definitely heard about turn structure and phases, but at this point there is no indication that any of it has changed dramatically. Initiative as a Stat does not exist. Melee weapons that we have seen so far have no 'Reach' stat. Melee weapons also show totally normal amounts of attacks, generalized from two examples we have seen so far. Weapon types also still exist, we have seen Assault, Pistol, and Twin-Linked.

INITIATIVE, ACTIVATION AND INTERVENTION

- Everytime a unit has fought, nearby enemies may intervene
- Both sides roll 6D6 against their Initiative - if the intervening player has more successes, he can intervene
- Interventor immediately gets a movement phase and can pile in, and a fight phase after that
- Units with high Initiative can use this to fight back, then immediately fight again on their turn
- No strike first/strike last effects anymore
- No consolidation anymore, you use your normal movement
- There are only five movement types
- Charge: in movement phase, normal move + 2D6'', must end in CC range of enemy
- Pile-in: if within 6'' of an enemy. 6'' move that needs to end in CC range of enemy
- Retreat: normal move that needs to end outside 6'' of the enemy, forgoes shooting and psychic phase
- Run and normal Move: stay the same

There is no initiative stat, most of this section can't work the way it is described.

PSYCHIC POWERS

- Psychic powers are selected by appropriate keywords, no unified 'lore' list anymore
- Psychic phase can be whenever you like, one per activation
- Units can use different numbers of powers
- Powers have no warp charge, but a casting score. Use Advantage/Disadvantage
- You still roll 2D6 with perils on snake eyes - if you have at least one succes, the power goes through
- Deny now works as a collective action of all your psykers, use the best psy stat
- You can deny any amount of powers, but if you go over the limit you get Disadvantages
- Denying needs more successes than using powers, so double-crit when casting makes powers undeniable

We can't comment on that yet.

AIRCRAFT

- Aircraft only exist in hover model
- If an enemy comes within 6'' of an aircraft, that aircraft is removed from play and replaced on any board edge by the controlling player

Neither on this.

RANDOM TIDBITS

- Primaris 'Rupture Squads' with warp shunt modules are a new unit
- There is a plastic sprue with tokes for all sorts of effects
- Starter Box is Blood Angels vs Tyranids
- 'There are 0 accurate rules leaks out there - the AoO stuff is correct, other stuff is laughable'
- The Lion is coming and will be out before 10th edition

'Rupture Squads' are pending, but we have seen absolutely no hint for them; the stuff about BA vs. Tyranids is false, the token sprue is a reasonable speculation, and the thing about the Lion is true, but could be taken from any other source.

So, from what we can check right now, almost everything specific in this set of rumours seems to be either outright fabricated or taken from a very early version and changed considerably since then. The stuff that is true is mostly common sense like D6 being used for most rolls.

There's still a lot that we can't check right now with what GW has shown so far, but to me it seems like most of these leaks are made up!

Sounds like someone got mixed up with DnD 6th edition.

I think, at the least, that scenery/terrain being destructible is on the cards. It might not remove the piece from play, but it may negate the effects.

We actually know that psychic powers being "whenever you like" is false. They've been reorganized into whatever phase you do the thing that the psychic power is doing, like Smite in the shooting phase or Warp Time in movement.

ERJAK wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Added to the OP:

Edit 03/31/2023

This video concerns Space Marine chapter supplements: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8cE1ASmoZ8

- Space Marines will get 'a lot of love' in 10th edition (duh)
- Starter Box is just step one
- 'End of Summer' second wave for SM, September/August
- 'Huge Refresh' for Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves
- Dark Angel stuff is from a source he trusts 100%
- Blood Angel and Space Wolf stuff is from a new source
- BA and SW will receive boxed sets
- Dante probably in a boxed set, presented at Warhammer fest (speculation)
- He 'knows' Epic Horus Heresy will be shown of at Warhammer Fest
- Dark Angel box set with brand-new Sammael and Belial (unclear if old or new model)
- Second wave will also include separate kits for the stuff in the 10th box set
- Sanguinary guard: personally believes they'll come, but has no concrete information
- 'Everyone' will get a range refresh like Black Templars: a few units, upgrade frames and a few characters
- Says that will occupy the first half (!) of 10th edition

...sigh. Honestly, I don't think there's anything that could have made me feel worse about 10th than this.

They could have announced they're switching to a D73 system (with proprietary dice) that doesn't reduce the overall size of dice pools, and I would have preferred that to '1.5 years of more SM crap'.

I'm stoked

This section has a lot right and the rest that isn't confirmed makes a lot of sense, which is weird, because there's no evasion on datasheets so how is there so much correct here and not elsewhere?

Which of that is confirmed right? To me, it all seems like stuff we have no concept of so far from official information or is outright wrong from what we know from official information (detachments telling you which keywords you can include).

It would be very strange if they described detachments as "ah, take whatever you want! here are three simple limits!"
and then came out and said "just kidding there are actually more limits, what we just said is basically entirely untrue"

 Rihgu wrote:
Which of that is confirmed right? To me, it all seems like stuff we have no concept of so far from official information or is outright wrong from what we know from official information (detachments telling you which keywords you can include).

It would be very strange if they described detachments as "ah, take whatever you want! here are three simple limits!"
and then came out and said "just kidding there are actually more limits, what we just said is basically entirely untrue"

Sorry, I'm probably mentally reading between the lines a bit on some of them. There aren't definitive statements that you could tie to the things I'm thinking of, but a good handful are damn close.

Each detachment has its own unit restrictions, so the keyword thing is probably true.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/30/how-army-building-works-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

Tsagualsa wrote:
For this sunday update, we'll return to the Pastebin of the summary of the 'leaked' 50-page-document for a bit and compare its contents to stuff about 10th we already know...
...
There's still a lot that we can't check right now with what GW has shown so far, but to me it seems like most of these leaks are made up!

Thanks for putting that together and going through it. I really enjoy when battlefield terrain can be destroyed so it would be fun to see that come up in 40k. I'm also hoping that 10th does something different with initiative, since 8th and 9th game of figuring out who fights first isn't very fun and is often completely befuddling to the new player where rules like "Fight First" don't necessarily mean Fight First.

Of course that "leak" got bunked up so what it says is most generic stuff by accident

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/03/warhammer-fest-2023-is-the-first-place-you-can-play-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

10th Edition will be fully playable at Warhammer Fest.
Since the launch box contents will be there in person they kind of have to reveal all of them in the next weeks and only show what will come after at the actual reveal show

 Matrindur wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/03/warhammer-fest-2023-is-the-first-place-you-can-play-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

10th Edition will be fully playable at Warhammer Fest.
Since the launch box contents will be there in person they kind of have to reveal all of them in the next weeks and only show what will come after at the actual reveal show

Haha! So for once my unfounded optimism has been vindicated indeed

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Matrindur wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/03/warhammer-fest-2023-is-the-first-place-you-can-play-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

10th Edition will be fully playable at Warhammer Fest.
Since the launch box contents will be there in person they kind of have to reveal all of them in the next weeks and only show what will come after at the actual reveal show

Haha! So for once my unfounded optimism has been vindicated indeed

They could still trickle us a unit a week until then and use the event to go "here's the rest of the box", so not quite!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/03/go-way-behind-enemy-lines-with-a-new-space-marine-lieutenant/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=phobosltreveal03042023

Phobos Lieutenant reveal. Looks fine, but an odd one off Phobos model is still a weird pick for this box.

Dudeface wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Matrindur wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/03/warhammer-fest-2023-is-the-first-place-you-can-play-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

10th Edition will be fully playable at Warhammer Fest.
Since the launch box contents will be there in person they kind of have to reveal all of them in the next weeks and only show what will come after at the actual reveal show

Haha! So for once my unfounded optimism has been vindicated indeed

They could still trickle us a unit a week until then and use the event to go "here's the rest of the box", so not quite!

Well, i seem to be on a streak, they actually do preview the... Primaris Lieutenant

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/03/go-way-behind-enemy-lines-with-a-new-space-marine-lieutenant/