Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Inaccurate.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Inaccurate.

Insightful.

It's surely a massive mistake, but the question is...where is this statline from? What series of events would occur for such a radically different profile to appear in the digital edition. It's not just one or two things changed, it's an entirely different model. Looks like an HQ to me, too many wounds and attacks and the BS/WS and save are HQ lvl... could be another named character?

Honestly it looks like a Dominus statline off the top of my head.

According to the physical copy, it says:

10" WS3+ BS3+ S5 T6 W6 A3 L8 Sv4

I would be sad about losing 4" move... but wow that is a scary statline. SIX S7 AP-1 attacks on an automatic 2+?!

Is it Cawl's stat line?

Edit: nope

So, I know this is a tactics thread, and I don't mean to detract from the conversation at all, but I recently bought a lot from someone and have 10 robots now. Two of them don't have arms, and I started to think about conversions.

How would you guys feel about seeing robots with chicken legs and taser lances?

KampfKrote wrote:
So, I know this is a tactics thread, and I don't mean to detract from the conversation at all, but I recently bought a lot from someone and have 10 robots now. Two of them don't have arms, and I started to think about conversions.

How would you guys feel about seeing robots with chicken legs and taser lances?

I'm sure you could pull that off in a cool way.

Honestly though?

Take an army with 8 robots
Don't forget to battle report the carnage!

8 robots... that should kill about 50 marines a turn if you're in range.

Suzuteo wrote:Infiltrators are way better than Ruststalkers, but worse than Dragoons given their point cost.

Arachnofiend wrote:Definitely Infiltrators, a deep striking unit always helps and Ruststalkers... are just really bad this edition.

Thanks, that's what I thought. What about best weapon loadout and best choice of Forge World?

Atm before faq or errata. You can use infiltrators for mars. They benefit from dual canticles skitarii hit buff for a taser of 5+ cc and wrath of mars. That said flechett and tasers is the way for mass dice anti horde options. Most used when you dont want forge worlds like Stygia or Lucius. Cheapish not superb.

If you dont plan to use warth on them cause your lists has 2 many anti infantry . Then trymthe sturcrb andmswords for more elite options. But but... i trully belive in current meta focusing on one plan brings results. So taking 10 inf can become a force that could even threat guard flanks. The point investment atm and with stygia lucius options dont make them appealing. Somewhat priests are good troops can do work now while dragoons is the real choise.

You cant have unlimited gems so units with a clear role cn help all rounds while you focus your gems where need.



For elite targets electrostaff priests stygia can do itmwith mortals less buffs.

Decisions, decisions...

So right now my list looks like that:

And now I thought about using what I heard being called Dragoon battle ram - I could simply remove the Infiltrators and get one squad of 2 Dragoons to 4. Basically I'm sacrificing a proper Infiltration unit to supercharge one of my screen units. Would that be worth it?

I'd highly recommend waiting for the incoming FAQ for our new Codex before building your Skitarii infantry if you're looking for efficiency. There were rumours about point cost changes so be wary they don't invert the costs of the Rangers and Vanguards or something. Personnaly I've bought another Start Collecting and I'll be mounting them as Vanguards because I just prefer the way they look (and their guns) so I hope they won't go up in cost anymore, I'd rather have them at 8 pts and 9pts for the Rangers, IF they gave them a useful rule. Now it feels wrong to have Rangers who used to be scout-like thanks to their special rules for moving through terrain, now they're suddenly the basic bland trooper, feels wrong. Vanguards are the most basic soldiers with the Assault guns.

The pic of the wrong Dragoon profile will begin conspiracy theories, I guarantee it They most likely took a profile from a Xeno hero or something. I assure you their statline is the same as ever.

I'm hesitating as for the two Skitarii I want to give Arc Rifles to, Rangers or Vanguards ? I believe it fits more the Vanguards' range, but trading one or two S6 AP1 shots against the Radium Carbine seems like a tough choice to me, the Strength of the Vanguards lies in the volume of fire they pump out, one gun less reduces that volume of radioactive weaponry to just toxic fireworks.

Also I think I'm going to run squads of 7-8 Vanguards, seems like a decent compromise between Ld issues and volume of fire. I'll try to keep them near Dragoons or Dunecrawlers for the +1 Ld to help a bit but as always, it'll depend on the strategy to adopt with my current opponent. I like Vanguards for the synergy of locking them in CC to pair with another dedicated CC unit that will benefit from the -1 T debuff, it's still something huge in my opinion. 7-8 Vanguards should allow me to keep at least one alive each time I make a charge against something I want dead. Lock them with T5 in CC and attack with your +2 to Hit Dragoons and you'll rip them open. I often play against a Death Guard player and now that he'll have his codex and new units I'm eager to have a taste of what my army can do against his now.

I don't remember who told me earlier here that the reroll failed Hit rolls for the +2 Dragoons is irrelevant but you're right, I was so in love with the 4+ Tesla that I forgot it made them it on 1+ too A 1 is always a fail but still, that's awesome.

Now why do they cost so much in money ? :(

 Aaranis wrote:
I'd highly recommend waiting for the incoming FAQ for our new Codex before building your Skitarii infantry if you're looking for efficiency. There were rumours about point cost changes so be wary they don't invert the costs of the Rangers and Vanguards or something. Personnaly I've bought another Start Collecting and I'll be mounting them as Vanguards because I just prefer the way they look (and their guns) so I hope they won't go up in cost anymore, I'd rather have them at 8 pts and 9pts for the Rangers, IF they gave them a useful rule. Now it feels wrong to have Rangers who used to be scout-like thanks to their special rules for moving through terrain, now they're suddenly the basic bland trooper, feels wrong. Vanguards are the most basic soldiers with the Assault guns.

The pic of the wrong Dragoon profile will begin conspiracy theories, I guarantee it They most likely took a profile from a Xeno hero or something. I assure you their statline is the same as ever.

I'm hesitating as for the two Skitarii I want to give Arc Rifles to, Rangers or Vanguards ? I believe it fits more the Vanguards' range, but trading one or two S6 AP1 shots against the Radium Carbine seems like a tough choice to me, the Strength of the Vanguards lies in the volume of fire they pump out, one gun less reduces that volume of radioactive weaponry to just toxic fireworks.

Also I think I'm going to run squads of 7-8 Vanguards, seems like a decent compromise between Ld issues and volume of fire. I'll try to keep them near Dragoons or Dunecrawlers for the +1 Ld to help a bit but as always, it'll depend on the strategy to adopt with my current opponent. I like Vanguards for the synergy of locking them in CC to pair with another dedicated CC unit that will benefit from the -1 T debuff, it's still something huge in my opinion. 7-8 Vanguards should allow me to keep at least one alive each time I make a charge against something I want dead. Lock them with T5 in CC and attack with your +2 to Hit Dragoons and you'll rip them open. I often play against a Death Guard player and now that he'll have his codex and new units I'm eager to have a taste of what my army can do against his now.

I don't remember who told me earlier here that the reroll failed Hit rolls for the +2 Dragoons is irrelevant but you're right, I was so in love with the 4+ Tesla that I forgot it made them it on 1+ too A 1 is always a fail but still, that's awesome.

Now why do they cost so much in money ? :(

I wouldn't mind a point swap, given I don't have any Rangers built aside from some Arquebus units.

Arc Rifles can go on either unless you're Metallica, then you want them on Rangers. Caliber always on Vanguard, Arquebus always on Rangers.

If you're referring to Omniscient Mask, that was me. Also, it should be 2+, not 1+, as 1 is always an auto-fail, right?

They're pricey because they're annoyingly intricate.

Yeah I'm just not too big on Arc Rifles this edition. It was nice for suicide units with Drop Pods a long time ago, but otherwise I don't feel wowed. Arqs got a huge buff and Plasma, while losing shot, is significantly cheaper than before.

I use 2*5 rangers and give them 1 arc each. Wish i could give rifle on alphas
2*6-7 vanguards if i got points alphas with taser. Usualy stock
2*5 rangers arq. Always omnispex.

That seems to work for me low cost great utility . If you increase numbers 8+ +1 arc 10 +2.
If you plan to go 10 mqn vang then plasmas 3*. But those alter plans from basic screeners stock --> effective --> full gear.

Battlescribe got some update its awful. I prefer point cost 9 vang 8 rang. Since vang are better. And sniper remain low on cost.

Yoda79 wrote:
I use 2*5 rangers and give them 1 arc each. Wish i could give rifle on alphas
2*6-7 vanguards if i got points alphas with taser. Usualy stock
2*5 rangers arq. Always omnispex.

That seems to work for me low cost great utility . If you increase numbers 8+ +1 arc 10 +2.
If you plan to go 10 mqn vang then plasmas 3*. But those alter plans from basic screeners stock --> effective --> full gear.

Battlescribe got some update its awful. I prefer point cost 9 vang 8 rang. Since vang are better. And sniper remain low on cost.

Yeah I believe I'll just add them the hoodless heads so that they can fit in both units depending on my list.
I'll definitely add a second Arquebus unit with my next purchase, in 2000 pts games they'd be really useful.

I wouldn't dare give that many plasmas to a single unit, they'll just get shot first :/ I have one plasma Vanguard and I believe I'll keep it that way.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

White Fang wrote:So for those of you who really know this army, what advice would you give a newcomer (me) as to which models I need to purchase next, now that the new AB has come out? I'm waiting for my AB to arrive and I've bought a starter box and 4 Kastellans. What should be on my next order? Help me out a bit? I'll be facing a fast, hard-hitting DE army as well as Salamanders regularly.

Cawl
2x Kastellans
1-2 Onagers
3-5 Dragoons

That should put you in a good spot to run most of the "competitive" options (see previous pages for some army lists).

KampfKrote wrote:@White Fang I have played a few games against DE, and my all-stars were my robots and my Dragoons. Vehicles seem great because they don't get the bonus from their poison weapons. Dunecrawlers are always good and seem to be a must answer threat for most of the people I play against as well.

True, but they also bring a load of Dark Lances that are quite a bother.

Hey Em, I am thinking about the following list for Game Empire and the SoCal open. What do you think? This is basically my "minimum amount of model kits I need to buy" list. I can run this with only buying the Codex + 1 more Kastelon robot box. 10CP, Mars/Cawl/Robots + an AM support battalion. The idea would be to stack every model around the kastelons. 55 total bodies + the ballistari and icarus to base block from the rear. Put the Enginseer in deep with the robots to get that extra attack on a 6 on overwatch. 1999 points.

Mars Battalion
Cawl 250
Enginseer 52 [extra shot in overwatch on a 6 relic]
Dakkastelons x6 660
Icarus 135 - had 10 spare points, put on the stubbers
Icarus 135
Ballistari x2 190 - I am thinking I can use these as cheap neutrons against air with that +2 to hit strategem
Rangers with 2 Arc - 48 - 8 points of arc rifles makes this squad shoot meaningfully harder
Rangers with 2 Arc - 48
Rangers with 2 Arc - 48

Mixed AM Battalion
Lord Commisar 55 - bolt weapon and power maul. 20 points for extra wound and 5++ and filling an HQ slot over the 30 point commisar
Tempestor Prime 40 - rod and chainsword
Scion Command 64 - 4x plasma
Scion Troop 66 - 2x plasma + 1x plasma pistol
Conscripts 60
Conscripts 60
Dakka Taurox 88 - Gatler + HSVolleygun x2 + Storm bolter - this is the iffiest thing in the list. I really like my conversion that has rolling rubber tires. It has 14" move and could snag me an objective. It also can body block and doesn't need auras to bring its very point efficient shooting to the table (88 points for 30 str4 shots is a steal).

Wulfey wrote:


Hey Em, I am thinking about the following list for Game Empire and the SoCal open. What do you think? This is basically my "minimum amount of model kits I need to buy" list. I can run this with only buying the Codex + 1 more Kastelon robot box. 10CP, Mars/Cawl/Robots + an AM support battalion. The idea would be to stack every model around the kastelons. 55 total bodies + the ballistari and icarus to base block from the rear. Put the Enginseer in deep with the robots to get that extra attack on a 6 on overwatch. 1999 points.

Mars Battalion
Cawl 250
Enginseer 52 [extra shot in overwatch on a 6 relic]
Dakkastelons x6 660
Icarus 135 - had 10 spare points, put on the stubbers
Icarus 135
Ballistari x2 190 - I am thinking I can use these as cheap neutrons against air with that +2 to hit strategem
Rangers with 2 Arc - 48 - 8 points of arc rifles makes this squad shoot meaningfully harder
Rangers with 2 Arc - 48
Rangers with 2 Arc - 48

Mixed AM Battalion
Lord Commisar 55 - bolt weapon and power maul. 20 points for extra wound and 5++ and filling an HQ slot over the 30 point commisar
Tempestor Prime 40 - rod and chainsword
Scion Command 64 - 4x plasma
Scion Troop 66 - 2x plasma + 1x plasma pistol
Conscripts 60
Conscripts 60
Dakka Taurox 88 - Gatler + HSVolleygun x2 + Storm bolter - this is the iffiest thing in the list. I really like my conversion that has rolling rubber tires. It has 14" move and could snag me an objective. It also can body block and doesn't need auras to bring its very point efficient shooting to the table (88 points for 30 str4 shots is a steal).

Not a fan of Ballistarii. I just think they are subpar - but they might work since you aren't taking Neutronagers, which I would consider mandatory. Not sure the Taurox is that useful. Seems an odd fit. More Scions would probably be better.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Wulfey wrote:


Hey Em, I am thinking about the following list for Game Empire and the SoCal open. What do you think? This is basically my "minimum amount of model kits I need to buy" list. I can run this with only buying the Codex + 1 more Kastelon robot box. 10CP, Mars/Cawl/Robots + an AM support battalion. The idea would be to stack every model around the kastelons. 55 total bodies + the ballistari and icarus to base block from the rear. Put the Enginseer in deep with the robots to get that extra attack on a 6 on overwatch. 1999 points.

Mars Battalion
Cawl 250
Enginseer 52 [extra shot in overwatch on a 6 relic]
Dakkastelons x6 660
Icarus 135 - had 10 spare points, put on the stubbers
Icarus 135
Ballistari x2 190 - I am thinking I can use these as cheap neutrons against air with that +2 to hit strategem
Rangers with 2 Arc - 48 - 8 points of arc rifles makes this squad shoot meaningfully harder
Rangers with 2 Arc - 48
Rangers with 2 Arc - 48

Mixed AM Battalion
Lord Commisar 55 - bolt weapon and power maul. 20 points for extra wound and 5++ and filling an HQ slot over the 30 point commisar
Tempestor Prime 40 - rod and chainsword
Scion Command 64 - 4x plasma
Scion Troop 66 - 2x plasma + 1x plasma pistol
Conscripts 60
Conscripts 60
Dakka Taurox 88 - Gatler + HSVolleygun x2 + Storm bolter - this is the iffiest thing in the list. I really like my conversion that has rolling rubber tires. It has 14" move and could snag me an objective. It also can body block and doesn't need auras to bring its very point efficient shooting to the table (88 points for 30 str4 shots is a steal).

Not a fan of Ballistarii. I just think they are subpar - but they might work since you aren't taking Neutronagers, which I would consider mandatory. Not sure the Taurox is that useful. Seems an odd fit. More Scions would probably be better.

The alternate list would be to turn the ballistari into Dragoons and use them as the counter assault squad.

Would you really take 2 Neutrons over 2 Icarus? The Icarus is so consistent against so many targets, where the neutrons tend to only smoke the odd rhino here or there. The onager problem is why I gravitate towards the ballistari, since a battalion has only 3 heavy support slots and I can't plausibly get another onager on the field.

This would be an alternative that doesn't have the ballistari and the Taurox.

Yea, that looks solid. Dragoons should perform well, even if not the optimal Stygies version. They were good before and still are.

The Icarus Array has been such a mixed bag for me, while the Neutron has been something that when it hits can be a game changer. One of each is probably a good way to go. Just so you can randomly pop Razorbacks and swat down flyers too.

We talking what you got or what we believe best?

If we go for soup then

Guard batt
Guar batt
Mars spearhead
Stygia outrider.

Would be best . Almost same list remove one robot take company commander comisar 3* infantry for cheap batt. Ret almost same more cp drop dragoons with inf. Spend cp for buffs wrath and dragoons.

To the above, if you realllly drill down on the competitive side, then turning the (Rangers and Enginseer) into (Commander and Conscripts) is technically more competitive and nets you 1 CP. The trouble is that I am unwilling to really go up to that 80 conscript level because I just don't want to buy that many models that are up for a nerf. I want to run a serious Spike list, but even I have my Johnny limits (that just so happen to coincide with my $$$ limits).

Also, I think that dragoon outrider detachments are not as good as they seem. They require a tax HQ and necessarily have 3 separate fast attack choices. The reason the 2 dragoons in mars works is because they are both in the same unit and both get the +2 to hit when I activate the strategem. Blobs of dragoons are super strong, single dragoons aren't as good. In addition, literally everything in my army is a better target than my Mars dragoons. Even if they are only at -1, you should be shooting at all the other stuff, not them.

EDIT: this would be the hardest cheese, super strongest, most up to the meta spam list I can think of per Yoda79's suggestions. This is in keeping with the ITC 3 detachment limit.

Ofc if i use dragoons i use them 1*3 as you have. I was merely splitting your list. And outrider stygia offers 2 balistarii as flank defence.

Balostarii
Balostarii
3* dragoons. Maxing cps for wrath on robots and boosting dragoons. You used engiseer for mars batt. That one i took. If you are ok with no balistarii etc sure.

My list is batt batt spewrhead yes. But atm i make only ad mech solo list. And since we talking about even before codex i use guard infantry not conscripts. I tend to play my army not buy bodies. Move them shoot them etc. What is need with comander and comissar.

It was an answer maximizing your list with your models. But if you like the 2* batt i agree sure but both better than the siggested one. My advice still
1*3 dragoons mim 2-3 neutronager must with so many robots and dragoons. Neutronagers also can be buffed is need to kill air or just 4+ Cawl rerols.

Wulfey: What's your game plan against the mirror? I'm legit worried about our >36" shooting.

Also, another option if you guys are running Mars Brigade with only a single blob of Dragoons is an Auxiliary detachment. You lose 1CP, but skip the HQ tax.

Mirror is just going to be lame. Alpha strike versus alpha strike means that whoever goes first wins. If I go up against 6 robots, the game is decided before the first battle round.

If I go up against a more balanced admech list that has less robots, then I have the scions to outplay the objectives and kill more critical units. And my conscript/ranger screen is superior to any pure admech screen. No admech lists are good at getting across the board and tying up robots in combat. In sum, whoever has more robots and goes first is going to win.

EDIT: also, to the 36" point. Remember there is a 1CP stratgem RAGE OF THE MACHINES that lets me ignore the penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons. So if I have to I can move the robots 8" to get into position.

I am assuming this list (Mars and AM battalion).

On neutron vs. icarus, remember that dunecrawlers are skitarii and can benefit from the Protector Doctrina Imperative stratagem. Your neutronager can be hitting a stormraven on a 2+ for 1 command point.

So I have my list mostly figured out for my Skitarii. Here is what I am looking at running:

Stygies VIII

HQ
Dominus - Erad Ray, Macrostubber (Autocaduceus)
Dominus - Volkite Charger, Phosphor Serpenta

Troops
Rangers - 5-man, 2x Arquebuses
Rangers - 5-man, 2x Arquebuses
Rangers (or Vanguard, haven't decided) - 10-man, 3x Caliver
Rangers (or Vanguard, haven't decided) - 10-man, 3x Arc Rifle

Elite
Ruststalkers - Blades and Claw on Princeps, Claw and Razor on the rest

Fast Attack
Dragoon - Lance and Phosphor Serpenta
Dragoon - Lance and Phosphor Serpenta

Heavy Support
Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser
Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser
Dunecrawler - Icarus Array

Lord of War
Knight Warden - Avenger Gatling, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Stormspear Rocket Pod, Thunderstrike Gauntlet

Per Battlescribe this puts me at 1893 pts. One fairly obvious choice would be to add a unit of Fulgerites, but I am trying to cleave closer to Skitarii only. I could double the size of the Sicarians or add a second unit. The Sicarians work well with the deployment Strategem of Stygies (not as well as Fulgerites, but that's a whole different story). I have quite a bit of long range fire power, so I don't really think adding an Iron strider is all that necessary. I could fit two Enginseers and have them follow the Knight around or camp near the Onagers (which would allow me to turn the Onagers and one of the Dominus into a Spearhead).

Thoughts?

Wulfey: I agree with the premise of your mirror match up (alpha strike wins), but I don't think that's how it is going to work. Both sides are going to castle up. Nobody is going to be in range turn one. Each side is then going to try to force the other to move into 44" range. The first person who moves Kastelans into the range of the other wins because with Binharic Override, the side that moves in first shoots first. Therefore, 48" shooting and screens will decide the game. Can Conscripts and Scions stand up to Aegis Kastelans, Dragoons, and Crawlers?

I dont see any datasmith around. So if you change protocl with gem then you ll be stationary. I got 3 neutronagers that eventually will oit survive yoir list and will outrange and outheal your robots. If you believe i cant defend vs plasma with a stygia batt come try your 4 deep strikes vs my simple -1 troops. Dragoons onagers enough to win. Try pushing your conscrips up field and we ll see who comes winning in the end. Even dual stubber on neutronagers will rip your force when sniper get commisar oit in first round. Guard has 100 alpha strike plasma 3-4 commisars and bodies. Ad mech has the best anti tank weapon before titans . Your list has nothing of those.

Dont get me wrong just trying to give you a heads up. Not convince for something. Stationary robots from round one can be outranged and if your list has 6 and cawl its 50% of you list . Yes you ll ruin your friends day but we talking competitive. Can be played hard but most likely doable. Dragoons also got -2 for shooting 12"+ not melee!!

Suzuteo wrote:
Wulfey: I agree with the premise of your mirror match up (alpha strike wins), but I don't think that's how it is going to work. Both sides are going to castle up. Nobody is going to be in range turn one. Each side is then going to try to force the other to move into 44" range. The first person who moves Kastelans into the range of the other wins because with Binharic Override, the side that moves in first shoots first. Therefore, 48" shooting and screens will decide the game. Can Conscripts and Scions stand up to Aegis Kastelans, Dragoons, and Crawlers?

I do think it is obviously going to be close. What do you think the target priority should be? The player who double shoots first should ... I think distribute their robot shots across many units? As much as robots are devastating, they are kind of bad at shooting against robots since volume of fire against mortal wound reflections is really bad. Assuming I am starting my shooting phase in a mirror, I think I spread each robot's 18 shots into a different screening infantry unit. Then I put any hard hitting anti-tank (neutron) into the other guy's robots. I think I save my scions in reserve until the robots don't have aegis anymore and don't have shroudpsalm (only a 5++ then) or until another good target is exposed within 12" (since scions are only worth deepstriking if you can rapid fire). I am assuming my conscripts are irrelevant, but if they can pop off some lasgun fire into some screening units I will take it. This is making me think about using a second neutron since neutron is one of the few trully all star weapons against robots. If either player's screen dies, then the dragoons can make combat and the first player to get the other guy's robots in combat wins the game.

Also, this codex needs a FAQ on two strategems. RAGE OF THE MACHINES and BENEVOLENCE OF THE OMNISSIAH both apply to a single VEHICLE. But admech has several UNITS of vehicles (ironstriders + kastelons). So does only 1 robot get to shrug off mortal wounds on a 5+ or ignore the heavy+move penalty? Or is all the robots?

EDIT: em_en's comment below is exactly why I keep running more Icarus than Neutron. Rolling the 1 shot and then a 2 to wound is just so sad. This is also why I kept running double ballistari since they had a stable 4 lascannon shots for 50 more points than the D3 shots of the Onager.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
On neutron vs. icarus, remember that dunecrawlers are skitarii and can benefit from the Protector Doctrina Imperative stratagem. Your neutronager can be hitting a stormraven on a 2+ for 1 command point.

Hitting isn't usually the issue. It often that the d3 winds up being one stupid shot and then we have to wound which invariably we roll a 1.