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hey...
so im thinking of adding a vindicare assassin to my guard ranks but some questions came up when i was reading the book...

does taking an ally of a certain type take up a FOC slot? (in this case an Elite)

does the note next to the assassins rules saying that there must be an inquisitor present to take one apply if im taking them as an addition to a guard army?

krusty wrote:hey...
so im thinking of adding a vindicare assassin to my guard ranks but some questions came up when i was reading the book...

does taking an ally of a certain type take up a FOC slot? (in this case an Elite)

does the note next to the assassins rules saying that there must be an inquisitor present to take one apply if im taking them as an addition to a guard army?

1. Yes

2. It applies to both smurfs and guard.

Yes you must have an =I= unless it was FAQed.

Yes he will take up an elite slot.

Yes also to take the assassin you must also take an inquisitor from the same codex.

There for you'll need to use both a HQ and elites slot ... Take 2 mystic with the DH inquisitor lord and you can pop deep strikers.

so whats a cheap way to hook up an inquisitor lord so i can bring the vindicare?

krusty wrote:so whats a cheap way to hook up an inquisitor lord so i can bring the vindicare?

There isn't one, if you want a vindicare you need to bite the cost bullet. Only way to cheapen it up is to make the lord next to useless (naked and stuck with a crummy 2 man retinue). If you're going to take the lord, you're probably going to buy him decent wargear, retinue, and powers.

Gorkamorka wrote:Only way to cheapen it up is to make the lord next to useless (naked and stuck with a crummy 2 man retinue).

It's actually a minimum of 3 for the Lord.

insaniak wrote:

Gorkamorka wrote:Only way to cheapen it up is to make the lord next to useless (naked and stuck with a crummy 2 man retinue).

It's actually a minimum of 3 for the Lord.

This is why I need to buy more codexes. codecies. codeci?

Codexes. At least so far as GW are concerned. It's not perfect Latin, but it's not supposed to be.


As for the Inquisitor, given the points investment, if you really want the Assassin, I would think you would be better off actually kitting the Inquisitor Lord and retinue out to be useful, rather than just taking them as filler.

YMMV, obviously.

ya, prolly just gunna get a decent sized unit to hang out with some forward moving units

Nah go for the Inquistor plus two mystics retinue and park them near something with decent blasts...Deepstrikers will hate you, plus its likely the most useful possible setup.

JAck

Jackmojo wrote:Nah go for the Inquistor plus two mystics retinue

If he wants the Assassin in a Guard army, it has to be an Inquisitor Lord, which means a retinue of at least three.

Something you might want to consider:

A Veteran with carapace armor and a plasma gun is only 20 points in the inquisitor's retinue. You can run 2 mystics, 3 plasma gunners, and whatever else you'd like as a nice retinue for the inquisitor. Incinerator is a great weapon to give the inquisitor himself, it's exactly the same as a heavy flamer but also ignores armor saves.

Buy one of your infantry squads a chimera, the inquisitor and friends can use it as their ride. Alternatively, you could get them a Land Raider as a dedicated transport if you want to cough up the points.

Keep in mind you may onlly Ally 1 elite slot so you'll also need to take an Inquisitor Lord. BTW why vindicare? Beside the whole "oooohhhh. . .snipah. . . " I find em lacking.

I mean at most you'll get what 6-8 shots off in a game? Law of averages you're going to miss on one so that's 5-7. Wounding on 1/2 of those so 2-4 wounds.

Assuming you're trying to take down the HQ, it'll probably have an invuln. So specialty ammo aside you aren't looking at much and that specialty ammo is one-use only, hit or miss, wound or not.

IMO take a read through the Callidus Assasin if you really want an assassin, the 10 points is far more then worth it.

You should also consider a couple things when adding an inquisitor lord to your army.

The 2 mystics should be an automatic as pointed out already.

I also always add a psychic hood, as the psychic hood from the DH codex is well worth the points as it has the opportunity to stop any and all psychic activity on the table.

Also consider the Emperor's tarot. Guard have a lot of big guns and often a lot of semi-fragile av11-12 armor. Gaining an advantage to be able to shoot first is well worth it for a guard army.

If you decide to take the emperor's tarot you may also want to reconsider your choice of assassin. A calidus assassin is mean when played with the opportunity to also shoot first, as he gets to reposition one enemy unit after deployment but before the start of the first turn. Many times I've been able to move something out from behind cover that my opponent didn't want exposed and get to shoot it up on the first turn.

An inquisitor goes a long way with a guard army and brings a lot to the table potentially.

I always used to run an inquisitor lord with 2 mystics, 3 gun servitors (2 heavy bolter, 1 plasma cannon) the emperor's tarot, psychic hood, and a psycannon with a chimera.

augustus5 wrote: as he gets to reposition one enemy unit after deployment but before the start of the first turn.

Fair warning I'm being a total fluff nerd here but it's she All Callidus assassins are female due to their increased effectiveness in the use of Polymorphine.

Actually the fluff never said that they were all female. Just that females novitiates tend to be better at the use of polymorphine.

Gorkamorka wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Gorkamorka wrote:Only way to cheapen it up is to make the lord next to useless (naked and stuck with a crummy 2 man retinue).

It's actually a minimum of 3 for the Lord.

This is why I need to buy more codexes. codecies. codeci?

"Codexes" and "Codices" are both acceptable plurals in the English dictionary. Same rule applies to other Anglicised Latin words with the -ex declination (eg "index", "carnifex" etc). GW tends to use the former.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:IMO take a read through the Callidus Assasin if you really want an assassin, the 10 points is far more then worth it.

After that check out the Eversor. It might not be as flexible as a Callidus but it's cheap and the sheer terror value of a skull-faced killing machine charging 12'' is worth it.

insaniak wrote:Actually the fluff never said that they were all female. Just that females novitiates tend to be better at the use of polymorphine.

Ah, took another read through & it says "Vast Majority" thanks .

I like to use the shooty type Augustus pointed out, though I use WH, so no tarrot or mystics for me :( 3 HB servitors or 2 HB/1 PC servitors in cover make for a great little firebase, and throwing in two sages makes for a super accurate plasma cannon that never cooks itself.
As an alternative, I also run a "plasma box" with DH Inq Lord with psycannon (and goodies, depending on points) 3 Vet Guardsment with Plasma and 3 Acolytes with Combiplasma, and two mystics in a rhino. It is a tad expensive at ~220 points, but being able to direct angry death at deep strikers and then pop out to fire 12 plasma rounds at 12" is a good time. It is very much an alpha strike sort of unit though, as I usually cook off 2-3 of the acolytes and vets, and they get shot up fast.

As to assassins, I agree that the vindicare is quite overpriced. The ability to pop Sgts and Heavies is nice, but you only get 7 shots max, and only ~3.5 of those are going to wound, and you will probably roll a 1 to hit at some point, so you get to kill 3 people. His pistol used to be really sweet, allowing you to pop 2 rounds into anything within 12" with Str5 AP2, but the new pistol rules make that a problem too. Really, I think the Vindi is filled with 20 5 point abilities that add up to being worth about 80-90 points, not 100+.

I like the callidus, though I find she is also a little over priced with the new assault/pile in rules. Her brain cooker doesn't work all that well except against guard/orks/tau, targets that a flamer would be pretty goot against anyway, and since WS5 still just means she hits on 3's in melee, she isn't a monster in h2h, and if she doesn't splatter a whole lot of guys she is going to get smashed in melee. So she can't really kill heros that well since she hits them on 4's and wounds on 4's usually, and even things like Tactical Squads give her issues due to the charge reaction move and lack of a kill zone. Personally, I think she is probably worth 100 points these days, not 125 or so. She does have good tricks, though, and depending on your opponant and your army build (psyker battle squads LOVE neural shredders) she can have some nice synergy.
The Eversor is a good buy for his points, I think. He is fast and can infiltrate so you can sometimes get first turn charges off. He has a huge number of attacks which makes him better able to deal with large units, and even if he does get crushed under a wave of orks, he gets to blow them up. Really I think he is the way to go for assassins, other than perhaps death cultists.
The cullexis is also kind of fun, especially with PSBs, but without a power weapon he is a sad pony. I like him in apocalypse, but I have never used him in a normal game.
Personally, I like Death Cult Assassins the best these days. I can get 3 for the cost of a callidus, and they have more wounds between them, need to be shot and hit individually, and can be spread around or concentrated depending on the situation. Tie that in with a PSB or Cullexus for morale drop followed by combat you will be hard pressed to lose, and watch them run down the enemy. (The battle is hard to lose because you can only wound each assassin twice, and since they are ICs you have to allocate attacks, not wounds. So your opponant as likely as not will end up killing one assassin twice over for 2 wounds, and not killing the other two, while your I5 girlies get to slice up enemies with their fully complement of attacks.)

Agree with most that Wehrkind said. The 5th CC rules really hurt the assassins. Countermove, no killzone, No Retreat and pile in make assaults a "Do or Die"- situation for them. You really need an overall strategy that the assassin supports. Otherwise you are hard pressed to justify the points and use of precious FOC- slots. I have only used the Callidus in Planetstrike and Apocalypse games.

Wehrkind wrote:

I like the callidus, though I find she is also a little over priced with the new assault/pile in rules. Her brain cooker doesn't work all that well except against guard/orks/tau, targets that a flamer would be pretty goot against anyway, and since WS5 still just means she hits on 3's in melee, she isn't a monster in h2h, and if she doesn't splatter a whole lot of guys she is going to get smashed in melee.

Course, if you tag team her with a Psyker Battle Squad, the Neural Shredder will toast nearly anybody..................... Did you know an Avatar doesn't have Eternal Warrior?

That actually raises a question: If my opponant has a squad of chaos lads with a lord attached, and I peg them with a PSB to lower their LD by 8 or whatever, and smack them with the neural shredder, the IC isn't somehow immune, right?
I don't see why he would be, but is there some counter intuitive rules angle I might be missing? This would be a great way to smash all sorts of angry units otherwise.

Wehrkind wrote:That actually raises a question: If my opponant has a squad of chaos lads with a lord attached, and I peg them with a PSB to lower their LD by 8 or whatever, and smack them with the neural shredder, the IC isn't somehow immune, right?

Correct. The IC also takes the Ld Penalty.

Cool, that's what I had thought.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Further clarification: Does the neural shredder use the average Ld to figure wounds, or individually per model? I.e. if said lord (Ld 10) is rocking out with the chaos lads (Ld 9) and they all get bathed in shredder hate, do you allocate hits then roll to wound with different numbers to wound, or use the mode of 9?

Use the normal wounding rules, but use Leadership Value instead of toughness.

Tri wrote:Yes also to take the assassin you must also take an inquisitor from the same codex.

There for you'll need to use both a HQ and elites slot ... Take 2 mystic with the DH inquisitor lord and you can pop deep strikers.

Just a quick note, although I'm sure I'm too late in coming to the thread for most people to really care, but I think it's perfectly acceptable to use an allied Daemonhunters Inquisitor to take an Assassin from the Witch Hunters codex, or vice versa.

The Assassin rules merely state that they "may only be chosen if an Inquisitor Lord or Inquisitor is also part of the force" which can be satisfied by either an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (Lord) or an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor (Lord), which allows you to use two elites slots to get the prerequisite inquisitor and assassin into the army list.

Drunkspleen wrote:Just a quick note, although I'm sure I'm too late in coming to the thread for most people to really care, but I think it's perfectly acceptable to use an allied Daemonhunters Inquisitor to take an Assassin from the Witch Hunters codex, or vice versa.

Nope, doesn't work. The DH (and IIRC WH) FAQ spells out that the DH Inquisitor and WH Inquisitor are two distinct types of Inquisitor. (In the question addressing doing just what you're proposing for Deathcultists)

So if the DH Codex says that you need an Inquisitor to take an Assassin, what it actually means is that you must take a Daemonhunters Inquisitor in order to take a Daemonhunters Assassin.

Aren't the assassins the same anyway?