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Hi fellow dakka members I was just at my local GW talking to my friends about my new guard army im making, I was thinking of using cadians and attaching pig iron heads so I don't have a normal cadian army, a redshirt walked by me and must have overheard and said "Then your not supporting games workshop and we would have to through you out of the store." The redshirt walked of, me and my friends were pissed to here that gw doesn't allow a simple head SWAP just to give some taste to the army. Has this happened to anyone else, and is this a rule for all stores? Also shouldn't we be allowed to do what WE want with OUR money?

You are allowed to do what you want with your money. You are allowed to buy whatever you want. You are allowed to build it however you want. You are allowed to glue on bitz from other companies.

The problem stems from your expectation that you be allowed to do whatever you want on someone else's property. GW Stores are not publically owned spaces, they're owned (or leased) by GW. GW makes them available to people who want to play with GW products as a way to promote their products.

Expecting to be able to play with someone else's models in a GW store is like expecting to buy a burger at Burger King and eat it in a McDonalds. .

You're entitled to do whatever you want with your own stuff. It's when you want to use someone else's stuff, in this case, their tables, that you have to follow their rules.

In this case, I don't think they're being unreasonable. If you want to make your models with alternate heads (a perfectly reasonable thing to want to do, BTW) you just have to accept that you might not be able to play them in GW's store. Just as you wouldn't be able to play Warmachine, or M:TG in a GW store.

Its not like im buying a completely new product and doing "count as" I just want to switch out the heads. To me its like eating a burger from burger king but using Mc Donalds ketchup.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mmm Burgers

I was under the impression you could use alternative heads or other parts as long as a certain majority percentage of the model's makeup was GW?

So you could use a warjack's arm instead of a powerfist on a dreadnought for example?

Perhaps one of the Games Workshop staff who post here could clarify the official position?

and thats why you dont play in GW stores, plain and simple...
things like those that were mentioned here will make LGS s better, always.

THIS NEWS JUST IN!

One Redshirt is a knobend, and entire company is condemned on his actions!

More when we get it folks.

Conversions are fine and dandy, whether you have added non-GW bitz or not. The line is usually drawn when you use a proxy model from another manufacturer, or the model isn't predominantly GW.

What's the difference? If someone wanted to replicate your efforts, they still have to buy Cadians from GW, then cough up for the conversion parts. But using non-GW models, or basing it on a non-GW (should really say Citadel I guess) body, with perhaps just a Bolter (for arguments sake) means GW see little, if any cut.

Really, would they even notice?

Decisions like these probably depend on the local GW staff more than anything else. I've never been to an official store but from various forums people have said they were able to use third party heads and kit bashed conversions made from non-GW companies without any trouble. And then on the flipside you have this.

Imo those guys should look at official GW tournament rules. If the model is legal in a tournament setting than it should be more than fine in the store although it is the store owner's right to do what they wish.

WarhammerTabletop wrote:Its not like im buying a completely new product and doing "count as" I just want to switch out the heads. To me its like eating a burger from burger king but using Mc Donalds ketchup.

Not a good example; you don't buy ketchup after all I suppose a better one would be having McDonald fries at a Burger King.

First, maybe go talk to the guy and see if he was serious? Sounds to me like someone is just putting on over on you and you bought into it. Now, if he is serious, go get a clarification from the store manager about the policy. After all, GW makes just as much money selling you cadians as they do selling you cadians and you swapping heads.

So..
1) find out if redshirt was serious
2) if serious, go talk to the manager
3) if manager backs up the redshirt, decide if you want to model them still, and just don't play at that store.
4) no matter what happens, know that we will be going for 8 pages condemning GW for this, and we will not be swayed by anything even resembling what actually happened!

I think there is abit more to this than you've put....

If your at home- fair play- do what you please- no-one really cares

If its in a GW store, their store- their rules- usually "you should use GW models" conversions and such really depends on the manager- I know that in a hell of a lot of stores they are ok with it as long as it is mostly GW parts (so headswaps are fine... giving lasguns to green army men would be frowned upon)

If there is a problem- talk it through with the manager, because technically the buck stops with him in the store.


At the end of the day, the stores are their to promote the products and the hobby- If your doing something that would potentially damage the store's business why should they let you play there? Having said that I'd view a headswap as not damaging the business so get on with it- especially since they can look damn cool if they are the ones I think you mean,

If they have an issue with that, they have serious problems. The Cadian troopers come with heads, so they are not losing sales on heads...You are just buying some extra stuff elsewhere.

And once again for the hard of understanding.

One Staffer being an idiot does not company policy make.

It sounds like the redshirt in question is over-zealous, and is pulling policy out of thin air. Either that, or is misunderstanding policy.

I've played at RTT's at GW stores with cadians with pigiron heads, and pointed the heads out to staff, who've liked it. Talk to the Manager of said store, and see what he says.

I've heard it expressed as ratio of parts, some say 90%, some say 51%. But I don't think they are any firm "in a memo" guidelines.

If you bought 50 cadians and swapped the heads out, GW have still sold the cadians as if no swapped had taken place, the only bonus is a smaller company made a profit for the Additional sale of heads to provide your minis with an alternative look.

Your the customer, the decision is yours. Either you pursue it and they concede in which case grats, or they do not and then you have a decision to make about how much of your money and patronage GW deserves.

I agree with Redbeard. The conversation you had was, in effect, you advertising another company’s products while in GW’s store. It’s just not cricket.

I will guess, however, that if the rest of the army is GW stuff (just apart from the heads) it’s very likely to be ignored or overlooked if you just don’t specifically draw attention to it while in the store. I’ve seen non-GW models fly under the radar at GTs, too. As long as most of your stuff is GW, and you don’t make a point of drawing attention to the non-GW stuff, you’re probably fine.

You can do what you like at home or at your club. In GW's shop you have to abide by their rules.

Check with the store's manager if you can use a head-swapped army.

So, if I use modeling glue or super glue, can I still play at a GW store? Or do I have to buy and use GW's glue?

That's a moronic position, Timmah. There's no way to enforce any form of rule like that, and people have different preferences for what hobby tools they use.

Like Mad Dok said though, just because one redshirt says something does not make it a company policy.
Certainly it doesn't make it important enough to take it to THE INTARWEBZ!. Common sense dictates to ask the manager, not the register jockeys.

I'm in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with Doc here.
The staffer quoted in the OP was being an idiot. The actual rules in regards to conversions etc in the tourny and in store gaming state that a model much be made up of at least 75% GW parts.
That being said, GW's "play only with our toys" rules are mostly unenforcable. I've said it many times before and even demonstrated it on occasion.

TR

Their position isn't consistent. They've used other people's models in their own magazine. Not other wargames manufacturers admitedly, but they have shown conversions from military plastic kits.

So what?

There's not exactly an abundance of 28mm heroic scale armored vehicles to work from(although there's really none, and you end up using 1/35), and the Rhino to Leman Russ/Hydra/Whatever only looks good the first few dozen times.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Their position isn't consistent. They've used other people's models in their own magazine. Not other wargames manufacturers admitedly, but they have shown conversions from military plastic kits.

And that's the mark.

A Military Kit remains pretty much generic. They are less endorsing another company, and instead endorsing a real world design rendered into model kit form, with lots of GW parts added.

But say, a Warmachine kit, or a Rackham kit. Quite clearly non-GW, and available from a single source, that is doing themselves no favours. For every person who only buys that specific kit for that specific conversion (losing GW say, £30) there will be a person who gets involved in that game. Not good business sense at all, I'm sure you will agree.

Cane wrote:

WarhammerTabletop wrote:Its not like im buying a completely new product and doing "count as" I just want to switch out the heads. To me its like eating a burger from burger king but using Mc Donalds ketchup.

Not a good example; you don't buy ketchup after all I suppose a better one would be having McDonald fries at a Burger King.

Still not a good example, as those are purchased seperately, and Cadian heads aren't.

It would be most like going to McDonalds, ordering a burger, and then throwing out the pickles they give you and putting pickles you brought from home on it instead, because you like them to be crunchier or something.


The store owner has the right to make any policy they want regarding their own buildings, but in this case keep in mind that the redshirt isn't GW itself, and might be overstepping his authority/misinterpreting his duties. I would try and ask the manager there what the policy is.

But that won't be a problem if the GW game and miniatures are the best now would it?

It's hardly poaching.

A head swap?

Should be fine. A head swap doesn't replace any product you would have bought
from them. Models come with heads included, so if you're using the models
but with different heads, you haven't bought something in place of a product
you would have bought from GW.

Does that make sense?

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Cane wrote:

WarhammerTabletop wrote:Its not like im buying a completely new product and doing "count as" I just want to switch out the heads. To me its like eating a burger from burger king but using Mc Donalds ketchup.

Not a good example; you don't buy ketchup after all I suppose a better one would be having McDonald fries at a Burger King.

Still not a good example, as those are purchased seperately, and Cadian heads aren't.

It would be most like going to McDonalds, ordering a burger, and then throwing out the pickles they give you and putting pickles you brought from home on it instead, because you like them to be crunchier or something.

Well fries come with combo's so nyah!

Interesting that the OP changed the thread title; used to be "GW is Evil" as seen in the quoted replies

Please put down the flog....the Horse isn't so much dead as was never truly alive.

GW have a policy of asking people not to use other Wargames Companies in their stores/events.

GW do not have a policy saying conversions must only contain 100% GW parts.

There is no issue here, beyond a single staff member being a knobend.

malfred wrote:

Does that make sense?

Yea but to play redshirt's advocate it also advertises that there are other wargaming companies and models for customers to spend their cash on which could lead to more than just a head swap.

Orkeosaurus wrote:
It would be most like going to McDonalds, ordering a burger, and then throwing out the pickles they give you and putting pickles you brought from home on it instead, because you like them to be crunchier or something.

NO.. No... no..... completely wrong! As you can't actually see the pickles because they are hidden under the buns, ketchup, etc.

The proper description would be to go into Mcdonalds with a seedless bun that you brought from home and proceed to butcher the quarter pounder, by removing the seeded bun and replacing said seeed bun with the barbaric seedless bun.

GG

It's been my experience that GW store employees, like the general population, simply contain a certain number of people for whom a minuscule amount of power has lead to an ego trip.

As others have suggested, make sure he's serious, discuss with the store manager, and if necessary ask for the number of a district manager, because this is, by all accounts, a highly individual rule.