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Im building my second army for fantasty. I have only play empire and that was a couple of years ago. So i was wondering if i should take a few strong units or a alot of realy weak units. Oh and before i forget im building a Orc army.

Uhm, I think this is the 40k forums. Might wanna go down to the fantasy section.

Spivey wrote:Im building my second army for fantasty. I have only play empire and that was a couple of years ago. So i was wondering if i should take a few strong units or a alot of realy weak units. Oh and before i forget im building a Orc army.

I don't know a ton about O&G, but leadership is the big issue for the army. That could be a problem if you have a small amount of, or really expensive units. MSU, which stands for multiple small units is a cool tactic where you run a bunch of small, but powerful units. The idea is that you have a lot of maneuverability, and will often get the golden flank charge.

Which lands you into heaps of trouble with Animosity. MSU doesn't work very well with O&G.

Once again, because of Animosity you do not just want a few very powerful units, with only a few units you need to be sure that everything does what you want it to do. O&G don't really have that option barring Black Orc led units.

The trick with O&G is to have loads of weaker units. Wolf Riders, Spider Riders , Night Goblins, Single Trolls in General Ld range etc. and back these up with a few Medium strength units like regular Orc Boy units, small Boar Rider units and a few powerful units like Black Orcs, Giant (great missile/attention magnet). Add to this a good amount of Bolt Throwers and maybe a Stone Thrower or Doomdiver and you've got quite a solid line.

If you know how to use it that is. You need to take into account Animosity, low Ld of support troops, shooting priorities, learn what/when to sacrifice. The use of a checkerboard formation. It's a whole list to be mastered and an ongoing process for O&G generals.

Yeah, from what I understand regarding MSU armies is that it tends to work for expensive, high stat armies, not traditionally horde forces.

MSU is basically elite armies adapting the hoard mentality. Instead of ranks/numbers they try to kill a few enemies to make up the difference. The units tend to be around the cost of normal hoard units (100-150 ish). They have the added benefit of high leadership with the downside that they are much more vulnerable to shooting.


Orcs can go with the huge mob mentality. Just make sure you understand that sometimes they go crazy and do stupid things. Keep a hefty supply of wolf riders to help save the day when this happens and have backup plans. Its pretty tricky. Empire/Scaven work better but orcs have far more hitting power on the charge than either. A few black orcs stilling animosity in key places goes a long way and with a scroll caddy/BSB with the right banner you can have a solid magic defense.

cypher wrote:A few black orcs stilling animosity in key places goes a long way and with a scroll caddy/BSB with the right banner you can have a solid magic defense.

Don't even need the BSB. Slap the banner onto either a Black Orc or Big 'Uns unit and you can save the BSB their magic item capabilities.

MSU doesn't really work for Orcs. The closest you can do in regard to regular troops is min-sized Night Goblin units packing 3 Fanatics each and using them as 135pt Fanatic-delivery systems. Black Orcs can function as the combat unit, but they aren't that killy (only a unit lead by a character or packing the Banner of Butchery can really rack up appreciable combat-resolution kills). In return, they're reliable. Squigs are much frailer (no save and T3 as opposed to a 3+ or 5+ save in CC and T4), cannot take characters, and are vulnerable to animosity, but in return they're immune to psychology, cheap for their effects (8pts each for a WS4, S5, A2 model that hates Dwarves), and when they die they still cause hits on enemy units (plus they never give an enemy a banner).

For Rare your options would be Giant or Trolls: Trolls are much more durable but are of limited use against Rank and File. Giants are the opposite, "frail" but wonderful for tying up a nice block of 'ard troops for a round or two.

For Orcs, numbers are usually your friends. Goblins in units 24+ big (preferably 30) due to low leadership and cheap cost, Orc units big enough to get ranks (which become very helpful once you declare a Waaagh! as they might as well give you +D6 charge range), etcetera. Only exceptions I can think are Squigs (which, while effective in four-or-more herd sizes, tend to lose no barely any efficiency at smaller sizes), Squig Hoppers (who are skirmishing Squig herds), and Trolls (as you'll rarely get to make use of more than four in a unit at a time).

Leadership will be a problem, unless you take Gorbad (in which case you're using your Lord slot to not get a combat-worthy character, but a mean to keep your army from collapsing / additional Big 'Un units) you're capping out at Ld9. Gorbad's luckily got an 18" range for his effect, and counts as a BSB to boot, so if you do wind up taking him he's pretty decent for keeping you stuck in for a while longer (Gorbad general + Netter Night Goblins w/ Hand Weapons & Shields = very hard unit to displace).

Need Giants
Black Orcs are not needed, to many points in an O&G army.