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Made in us
Spawn of Chaos




Texas

So, I wanted to branch out beyond my WoC army (fun, but kinda inflexible), and Empire caught my eye as having a little of everything. I bought the book and now I am attempting to work out a 1000pt list to go buy that would also make a good springboard into a 1500-2250 list. After some deliberation, I came up with the following list; it may be a bit skewed by me being a WoC player in the sense that I would like at least a moderate magic phase, and that I have never been able to field skirmishers, but I'll let you, the critic, decide.

1000pt. Empire Starter List

Heroes:
1) Warrior Priest w/ Warhorse, Armor of Meteoric Iron, and Sword/Hammer of Might
=140

2) Lvl 2 Wizard
=100

Core:
1) 10 Crossbowmen
- Detachment of 5 Archers
=120

2) 25 Swordsmen w/ Full Command
-Detachment of 10 Free Company
-Detachment of 5 Archers
=265

3) 6 Knights w/ Full Command
=178

Special:
1) Great Cannon
=100

2) 5 Pistoliers w/ Musician
=97

TOTAL: 1000pt

Warrior Priest goes with Knights, Wizard goes in a ranged unit (preferably Archers).

Please, any comments and/or criticism is quite welcome.
   
Made in gb
Storm Trooper with Maglight





West Sussex, UK

That looks like a fairly solid list, the only advice i'm gonna give is drop the wizard to level 1 and give him a dispel scroll. Also for your detactments it may be more useful to use handgunners instead of archers as they punch some extra punch for the same points cost.

Illeix wrote:The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer sheilds or sparkle lasers.


DT:90-S+++G+++MB--I--Pw40k02++D++A+++/WD301R++(T)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Painesville, Ohio, USA

Okay, just some quick thoughts:

1) Warrior Priest w/ Warhorse, Armor of Meteoric Iron, and Sword/Hammer of Might


The AoMI is more for foot-heroes, as horseback gives us a bonus to armor save. At low points games, even getting the cost-effective AoMI is a bit extravagant. I'd save some points, and drop the AoMI for heavy armor, a sheild, and barding on the warhorse. That'll give you a 2+ armor save, keeping your priest equally protected, and still giving you some points to play around with.

Hammer of Might is a one-handed, magic weapon. So, you can get a sheild with it. Or, if you want to save some points, you can get your priest a zweihammer... but on horseback the zweihammer isn't as impressive, after the charge attack. The other advantage of a zweihammer is that the way the Priest's gear is listed, you can get him a zweihammer, and a hammer-and-sheild combo... basically arming him to go against hard-armored enemies, or light-attack-enemies. Anyway, if you do decide to save some points and get the zweihammer over the Hammer of Might, just make sure your knights are getting the charge off... that way you won't suffer from any of the greatweapon penalties.

Lvl 2 Wizard


In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. At 1000 points, most players might just bring a level 1 wizard, for the magical defense. Having a level 2 wizard means you actually want some magical offense. Especially coupled with the low-powered, free-spells the priest gives you. If you want to save some points, you might want to downgrade your wizard to a level one, and then buy him a dispell scroll. That'll still give you 4 dispell dice, plus 1 dispell scroll. You could even save some more points by just getting the level 1 wizard, and getting him no dispel scrolls.

If you want to keep him level 2, I'd suggest you give him a barded warhorse. You can have mounted characters in foot-infantry, and giving the wizard the warhorse, would give him a modicom of protection against small-arms fire, as well as some added mobility if you need it. I would suggest you put him in the swordsman unit, instead of your small unit of missile troops.

10 Crossbowmen
- Detachment of 5 Archers


Anything crossbows can do, Handgunners can do so much better. If you have them, get handgunners. And, if you can find the points, at least a musician.

Archers, for a detachment, are the 2nd to worst detachment available. Your handgunners really shouldn't have a detachment at all. What you might want to consider for all your archer detachments is to, rather, make them their own unit, and give them the "Huntsmen" ability. At low point games, you probably won't face against a lot of units that have "Scout", thus your Huntsmen can deny forward objectives, force your opponent into your avenues of attack, and act as harassment fire against wizards, lightly armored flanks, and enemy war machines.

2) 25 Swordsmen w/ Full Command
-Detachment of 10 Free Company
-Detachment of 5 Archers


Swordsmen are a solid, and should be a good anvil block for you. At smaller point games, you should be able to get away with 20 strong block of swordsmen. Also, remember that your character models displace your line models, so... if you put the wizard on horseback in your swordsmen unit, you only need 18 other swordsmen. The points you save could give you another small block of swordsman, or pay for some of the other upgrades/swaps being considered.

Free Companies are amongst the best detachments out there. Cheap, plentiful, and who cares if they die. I would suggest you just get a 3x3 block of them, instead of the 10-strong you have them at currently. 3x3 (or 9 strong), has enough staying power to give you the US of 5 for flanking effects. Experienced players, however, know how fragile detachments are, and will often charge the detachment, in an effort to get an overrun move into the parent company.

See above about the archers.

6 Knights w/ Full Command


With your Priest with your knights, you might consider just getting a 5-strong knight unit (which'll become 6 with the priest). It'll save you some points you can use elsewhere.

Your cannon and Pistoliers look good. If you can find the points, getting an Outrider champion with Repeater Pistol for the Pistoliers is a huge upgrade to their damage potential. But... everyone knows how dangerous the Pistoliers can be, so don't expect them to survive past turn 3... if that long. Pistoliers tend to soak a lot of auto-hit magic missile spells.

Anyway, just some quick thoughts.
   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos




Texas

My my, that's quite a lot of advice! Thank you for the help, I will definitely sit down and retool my list. However, I wanted to ask about your assessment of my missile troop choices. I chose crossbowmen over handgunners at this points level (would've had both at 1500+) due to the extra 6 inches of range, allowing to reach into their deployment zone, or set back farther into mine. I can see the extra -1 to save being simply exquisite, but shouldn't I keep at least one unit of crossbowmen around?

On the subject of archers, I have to agree with you, though I did want to explain that I wanted to have archers as a detachment to be able to both move and fire so that they could advance with the swordsmen -but I suppose I could simply make them come to me- and that I wanted to put my Wizard in with the archers to have 360 degree LOS. Anyway, let me move some numbers around and post up another list. Thanks to both you.

Preemptive edit: Oh yeah, why do you suggest running the melee detachment as 3x3? Simply to conserve space? If the detachment is going into the flank as a 3x3 block just to deny ranks, would a detachment of swordsmen be better to have more survivability?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Painesville, Ohio, USA

Okay, some quick thoughts.

Crossbows have a bit of range, but the vast majority of the game is played around 10" - 20" area...w/in the range of the Handguns. And, for missile troops, you have to make each hit count. The ability to penalize armor saves is what makes Handgunners huge. Lastly, the Handgunner champion has so many more options available to him, if you want to equip hiim separately.

Crossbows do give you a bit better Hyperbola shots, but... otherwise, the ability of the handgun to punch through armor is a better option than the extra 6" of range.

Archers lack both. Lackluster range, and no bonus to penalizing your opponent just makes them... meh. Until you make them Huntsmen. It's the _only_ Empire unit that Scouts. Denying your opponent forward cover, or forcing him to alter his avenues of approach into your fire-lines is a nice bonus. Plus, if your opponent just ignores the Huntsmen, on the last turn or two, you can use them to contest table quarter-VPs as well as try to move them into your enemy deployment zone.

The 3x3 detachment maximizes what you want them to do, which is deny enemy rank bonuses, while minimizing their footprint on the battle field. 3x3 makes them hellaciously mobile, as well as their small size means they can often be out of LOS of your opponent.

As to Free Company vs Swordsman detachments... it's more of a preference. Free Company are dirt cheap, but Swordsmen do have a lot better survivability. Free Company have a higher maximum damage potential, but Swordsmen have a more reliable damage average. So... it ends up being personal preference. I tend for the free companies, as my main companies tend to be swordsmen.f

   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos




Texas

New List!

Heroes:
Warrior Priest w/ Barded Warhorse, Heavy Armor, Shield, and Great Hammer
=114

Wizard w/ Dispel Scroll
=90

Core:
10 Handgunners
-Champ w/ Long Rifle
=105

10 Huntsmen
=100

25 Swordsmen
-Full Command
-Detachment: 9 Free Company
=220

5 Knights
-Full Command
155

Special:
Great Cannon
=100

5 Pistoliers
-Musician
-Champ w/ Repeater Pistol
=114

TOTAL:998

I like this list better, but I am a little nervous of not having enough melee units (though I guess I didn't really subtract any, just trimmed the ones present down a bit). I would've prefered swordsmen in the detachment, but I didn't quite have enough points. Also, I am excited to use the huntsmen. In any case, I think this is an excellent springboard to build on.
   
 
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