JD21290 wrote:Weapon teams: the rattling gun and warpfire thrower i know, however, ive been told there are some new ones.
Do they work well? or am i best off sticking to the origionals.

Lord Skrolk - An expensive lord choice, a fighter and a caster, a terror on furry feet, Skrolk is the choice for a themed plague list due to his ability to make Plague Monks core. As a lord of his points I don't think he justifies his role in anything other than a themed list, because he is not a frightening enough wizard nor a game changing enough fighter to sway entire battles. The Liber Bubonicus at bound power 6 does increase his threat level as a mage, but it's random effects, chance of failure, and low strength at either effect rolled mean that it is limited in utility except against certain foes (Large units of T3 knights will find it a likely dispel, but a well constructed army well may have enough defense for it to be a bit of a fizzler). His terror causing ability is worth noting because it can mess with people's plans - but isn't strong enough on it's own given an environment with immune to psychology foes and a magic list which includes the Pipes of Piebald (which is almost as good for 25 points if you compare the tactical in game effect of terror versus failing to charge.). The rod of corruption is potentially devestating, but getting skrolk where he needs to be to use it to good effect will be difficult and his lack of protection means that versus remotely equally costed foes he will be relying on a charge, and even then bad luck could ruin his day.

Queek Headtaker - A Skaven lord who can really fight and isn't ridiculously over costed, Queek becomes an interesting choice. His fighting prowess are let down by a lack of defense, but if you can keep him away from enemy heavy hitters his sheer reliability (especially against Dwarfs and Greenskins) make him worth considering. A 3+ armour save bouncing back saves as S5 hits, ignoring saves and bonuses to hit and wound in a challenge make him a real threat versus 2 or less wound opposing characters and a nightmare for enemy champions, against whom he should get a good overkill bonus against, including cavalry champions due to his reasonable save who get the charge. In a 2000-2250 point list this is probably his strength, but you need an army list that can find a way to tie up really dangerous fighters and keep them away from Queek to ensure that his fury and conceit don't lead to his downfall. His ability to upgrade a unit of Stormvermin is good for those who are nostalgic and miss them being strength 4, but the cost of the upgrade is a little too steep to be considered a major bonus.

Vermin Lord- The mighty Verminlord was always a bit out of place in the Skaven book, disappearing in 6th edition in a way that made quite a bit of sense with the new direction of the list and game, so it's reappearance is a bit of a surprise, but the model is very nice and I already own one so in that regard I'm happy to see it back.

In terms of it's role within a Skaven army, it's brilliant for scaling the list if you want to play larger games, take a special character lord and a Verminlord and suddenly your 2000-2250 point list can up to 3000 points without a huge investment in more models, and you haven't done your army a major disservice because you have boosted both your spell casting, combat, and terror causing abilities significantly. Taking a Vermin lord in a smaller game would probably be a bunch of fun - it's nice to get a bit of a romper stomper lord choice, and if you go relatively points light on the rest of your characters and can make your army work being led by a leadership 6 character then you might be in good stead.

Your opponent may simply not know how to deal with a horde army led by a spell casting combat monster, they may over or underestimate the Vermin Lord and thus not play well against your army as a whole - as such I'd say he's certainly worth a try. But the sacrifices in both points and leadership you make to take him in lower cost games impact heavily on reliability, and while reliabity obviously isn't the hall mark of a skaven army, MITIGATING unreliability is often the hall mark of a competitive Skaven army. But if you are interested more in dealing death and destruction than necessarily winning more games than you lose, then taking a Verminlord sure sounds like a lot of fun, and may well scare the pants off the odd opponent who doesn't deal with him appropriately.

Deathmaster Snikch - Again the return of an old favourite, the Deathmaster fills the slightly more logical role of a Hero Slot this time around, and has the decreased wounds to go along with it. So at toughness 4 with two wounds, what does 270 points buy you? Well, I think it continues to buy you the 'Great Fury Hope'. Snikch "Always strikes first", and with initiative 10 he actually pretty much always "Always strikes first". This is particularly useful given the lack of wounds, as it means whatever damage he is going to meat out is likely to hit home. His ward makes up a bit for the wounds as well. The Cloak of Shadows provides a modicum of protection in terms of maneuvering to pick his targets, but a 50/50 shot isn't something to be relied upon. His large number of attacks combined with his Whirl of Weeping Blades do make him an undeniable threat, although the decreased power of weeping blades (armour piercing instead of +1 strength, or +1 to wound depending on edition) mean that while he remains a threat to many opponents, he is no longer "The Great Furry Hope" - no bands of power means that opponents with a ward and good armour save pose a real problem, with the stats baring out a less than 50/50 shot of wounding a 1+ armour save 5+ ward opponent. Sure that will be multiplied into D3 wounds - and maybe it makes sense that he is not suited to fighting well armoured opponents (he is an assassin after all), but as there are Knight champions who can get access to such protection, it is vital that the Deathmaster picks his targets very carefully to be able to regain his points.

Finally, I think it's crazy that Snikch isn't given smoke bombs in his profile. The single item that would make him worth a gamble (as if he managed to survive a failed attempt, at least he would be likely to survive the almost invariable failed break test and pursuit). It would be entirely themed, bad sadly is not included.

Compared to a regular Assasin, and considering he only takes a hero slot, I could see him come into play (as he is still significantly better than a regular assassin, even without the smoke bombs). Unfortunately his greatest strength is probably against ogres, as he could do a LOT of damage to a regular unit of ogres and easily regain his points.

JD21290 wrote:The furnace i do like!

Just a thought, but can snikch hide in any basic infantry unit?
If so, would the fumes from the furnace hurt him while hidden?

Seems like i may be taking twin furnace in my list now
Something that good deserves to be used.

thanks flash

LunaHound wrote:Rat Ogres , other than i like their metal models , i cant think of any good reasons to take them . frenzy + toughness 4 (ara?) and 3 wound + no AS = you'll be wiped out or baited around till wiped out by ranged fire very easily.

JD21290 wrote:So far im thinking a large 50+ units of plagues pushing the furnace.
May throw snikch in there aswell to act as a character hammer against anything that decides to try and kill the furnace.
Only problem is that single unit is a huge point sink then, and also, as soon as the DM pops out i need to get him out of there before it kills him, so maybe not such a good idea lol.

Boss_Salvage wrote:
Also, can't Snikch not join the unit? As breakable characters can't join unbreakable units. I suppose he'd appear and then by rejected out 1" from the unit some direction? Like, if you popped him out not in combat, he'd have to leave the unit and start moving on his own, and if you popped him out in combat, he'd form up to one side and basically be a second unit fighting the same enemy.

Platuan4th wrote:
Doomflayer. Cheap, impact hits, 3+ AS to the front, generates an artillery die of attacks, great for combined charges with their parent unit. I can see myself taking at least 2 every time I play my Skaven. My personal favorite weapon team in the book.

Warp Grinder allows Gutter Runners and ONE unit of Night Runners to tunnel for a high price(also the only 2 units to be able to buy it, but as I said, only 1 Night runner unit in the whole army can buy one as opposed to unlimited with GRs). It also can do a few extra combat hits, but isn't as good as the DF in combat and will die quickly. I'd only bring one to get a ranked(20 or 25 NRs) unit in the enemy's back field, but for GRs, I'd rather their built in outflanking.

Rhellion wrote:
Unless I am playing a game and trying to take it easy on a new player, I would take the HPA every game (also because I love my conversion).

Flashman wrote:

Any chance of a pic? Very keen to see people's Abomination conversions.