Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I bought a Lord of Change and SC Daemons box to go with my growing Thousand Sons force, wondering if this list is any good.

HQ
Ahriman on Disk
Exalted Sorcerer on Disk

Elites
Helbrute - Twin Lascannon
Helbrute - Twin Lascannon
5x Scarab Terminators - Soulreaper and Hellfire Missiles

Troops
10x Rubrics
5x Rubrics
5x Rubrics

Heavy Support
Defiler - Twin Lascannon and Defiler Scourge


Tzeench Daemons

HQ
Kairos Fateweaver

Elites
6x Flamers

Troops
10x Horrors

Fast Attack
3x Screamers

Heavy Support
Burning Chariot

Not wanting anything ultra-competitive, just want a nice varied selection of units that can hold their own.

Now the SC box has a Burning Chariot, which can either be built as Changecaster + Burning Chariot, or Exalted Flamer + Fateskimmer. Before I start building this kit, what would be the best option? I'm thinking leaving the Exalted Flamer on foot so he can be protected by the Flamers, what would you guys suggest?

Do you guys put Soulreaper cannon and Hellfire Missiles on the same model? No that much abilities in the game for the enemy to target specific models?
Recommended spell for Scarab Terminator Sorcerrer? Warptime?

Xyxel I don’t think the rules allow that based on the wording of the codex.

As for spell I like duplicity or time. For non-cult I use weaver/or glamor to protect selves or just throw a smite out.

Valkyrie I have a similar list is use and I have had some luck with it prior to Covid. You are probably not going to win the LVO with that but should be ok in friendly pick up games. May I suggest using an exhaled LoC though instead of Kairos. The new table is really good for the LoC.
But remember when the new dex drops you will likely lose a “mono-codex” rule to bring daemons.

It`s a 100% legal to put both weapons on the same model and i would absolutely do that as it means the weapons surviving 1 more casualty.

@Xyxel:
As for the psychic power, i mostly go for glamour / weaver / temporal manipulation as backup powers or Firestorm because it can snipe stuff like characters or units hiding behind chaff.
Remember you can only take powers from the discipline of change with them, so they sadly can`t have warptime themself.

You get the relevant cult power on top of that for free, which gives them some extra flexibility.
As xeen said time & duplicity are both great cults and their powers work well with Scarabs.


@Valkyrie:
Honestly, none of the options are really competetive and with the codex Death Guard out it seems like souping will take away certain traits, so it does not matter to much.
Only exception is the exalted LoC which is really good like xeen said.
So overall, especially if you don`t want to go fully competetive i`d go for the options with the best looks and have fun with a nice looking army with lots of different stuff.
Also it seems summoning is gone, unless they keep that mechanic in the future CD codex, so i will stop any Tzeentch daemon projects for now and wait until TS and CD have their books.
Kinda sad because i have close to 1000 points Tzeentch daemons and was planning to add more of them. :(

Yea. Not much will be competitive against DG for awhile. I hope our book is at least half as good. I would love Magnus to be viable.

I agree that I would not worry about competitive builds until the new dex and just focus on what you like.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yea. Not much will be competitive against DG for awhile. I hope our book is at least half as good. I would love Magnus to be viable.

I agree that I would not worry about competitive builds until the new dex and just focus on what you like.

Ok, so im planning to branch out into the Tsons later this year, after i finish getting my custodes sorted. My current plan is the following 1k list as a base, then expand on that if i find i like the Sons playstyle.



As a basis for getting to know the Tsons, and a reasonable 1k list to expand upon, what do you guys think? im concerned that it might not have enough AT firepower but i dont know how important that is at 1K as i dont have much actual game experince (got back into the hobby over lockdown....)

Hello there!

One question ahead: Do you plan to go for a fun army or do you have a more competetive approach?
Right now they are midtier and have mostly been used as souped in Psykers for chaos lists in 8th edition, but 9th seems to favour mono-armies more so its really hard to say where they will end up.

Overall it`s hard to give good advice, as we will get a new 40k codex about every month (depending on things happening with the pandemic / Brexit) 2021.
No way to tell when TS will get their 9th edition codex, but there are some things that will probably be similar to the DG changes.
Mainly 2 wound Rubric Marines, 3 wound Scarabs and other stuff (streamlined weapon profiles, strategems) that will get a similar change as the last 9th edition books got.
For now we are kinda left behind as we haven`t gotten the 2 wound Marine treatment yet, have no 9th edition rules like the 9th specific secondaries and still suffer a bit from the "kill psykers" & "kill characters" secondaries thatr are auto-takes against us most of the time.
On the other hand we had a really good psychic awakening book with grat upgrades, relics, new powers and strategems that allows us to go for lots of trickery.
We only lack some decent melee units to conquer enemy objectives that have good staying power as well.


Generally i`d say 10-20 Rubrics, 1-3 Sorcerers and 20 Tzaangors is a good start. If you plan on camping the Tzaangors i would rather go for 5 Rubrics, if you want to play 1 - 2 x 20 later on you can start with 10 allright.
Depends largely on the final rules but if i had to guess they are a safe bet. (Like poxwalkers in DG armies that got quite good.)
Would go for the Tzaangor blades not the pistol option tough.

In your list i`d skip the Icon of flames - they are bad now and unless they will give some kind of psychic boost in the future they won`t be worth it.

Antitank is what TS can`t do properly with each platform having it`s own pros & cons.
Maybe some Forgeworld alternative or a LasCannon Predator instead of this one?
Defilers have seen some play, they are not bad right now as they are great in melee, kinda resilient (more than the Pred) and their shooting is okayish.
Personally i use a Sphinx-based defiler with battle cannon & twin lascannon + a relic contemptor with 2 twin Lascannons for antitank.

Ahriman is such a beast, you`ll want to play him every game so personally i`d do him first.
Prince with wing is also great, but will probably be limited to 1 per detachment with our codex (like DG do now) so i`d think about adding one as well.

For 1k my go-to would be:

Ahriman on disc
Sorcerer
10 Rubrics
5 Rubrics
10 Tzaangors
5 Terminators
Preditor or defiler or Forgeworld bot.

After that i would add 5 more Scarabs, 5-15 more Rubrics, 10 more Tzaangors, 1 more Sorcerer (3 in the box so you could make 1 of them an Aspiring sorcerer, as i think you will only be able to play 1 Ahriman / Exalted Sorcerer per detachment in the future.), 1 Prince and maybe a Tzaangor shaman. (cheap psyker that can buff Tzaangors as well)
Depending on the style you want to go for you could finish of the 2000 points with Rhinos or more antitank depending on taste.

 Grotrebel wrote:
Hello there!

One question ahead: Do you plan to go for a fun army or do you have a more competetive approach?
Right now they are midtier and have mostly been used as souped in Psykers for chaos lists in 8th edition, but 9th seems to favour mono-armies more so its really hard to say where they will end up.

Overall it`s hard to give good advice, as we will get a new 40k codex about every month (depending on things happening with the pandemic / Brexit) 2021.
No way to tell when TS will get their 9th edition codex, but there are some things that will probably be similar to the DG changes.
Mainly 2 wound Rubric Marines, 3 wound Scarabs and other stuff (streamlined weapon profiles, strategems) that will get a similar change as the last 9th edition books got.
For now we are kinda left behind as we haven`t gotten the 2 wound Marine treatment yet, have no 9th edition rules like the 9th specific secondaries and still suffer a bit from the "kill psykers" & "kill characters" secondaries thatr are auto-takes against us most of the time.
On the other hand we had a really good psychic awakening book with grat upgrades, relics, new powers and strategems that allows us to go for lots of trickery.
We only lack some decent melee units to conquer enemy objectives that have good staying power as well.


Generally i`d say 10-20 Rubrics, 1-3 Sorcerers and 20 Tzaangors is a good start. If you plan on camping the Tzaangors i would rather go for 5 Rubrics, if you want to play 1 - 2 x 20 later on you can start with 10 allright.
Depends largely on the final rules but if i had to guess they are a safe bet. (Like poxwalkers in DG armies that got quite good.)
Would go for the Tzaangor blades not the pistol option tough.

In your list i`d skip the Icon of flames - they are bad now and unless they will give some kind of psychic boost in the future they won`t be worth it.

Antitank is what TS can`t do properly with each platform having it`s own pros & cons.
Maybe some Forgeworld alternative or a LasCannon Predator instead of this one?
Defilers have seen some play, they are not bad right now as they are great in melee, kinda resilient (more than the Pred) and their shooting is okayish.
Personally i use a Sphinx-based defiler with battle cannon & twin lascannon + a relic contemptor with 2 twin Lascannons for antitank.

Ahriman is such a beast, you`ll want to play him every game so personally i`d do him first.
Prince with wing is also great, but will probably be limited to 1 per detachment with our codex (like DG do now) so i`d think about adding one as well.

For 1k my go-to would be:

Ahriman on disc
Sorcerer
10 Rubrics
5 Rubrics
10 Tzaangors
5 Terminators
Preditor or defiler or Forgeworld bot.

After that i would add 5 more Scarabs, 5-15 more Rubrics, 10 more Tzaangors, 1 more Sorcerer (3 in the box so you could make 1 of them an Aspiring sorcerer, as i think you will only be able to play 1 Ahriman / Exalted Sorcerer per detachment in the future.), 1 Prince and maybe a Tzaangor shaman. (cheap psyker that can buff Tzaangors as well)
Depending on the style you want to go for you could finish of the 2000 points with Rhinos or more antitank depending on taste.

thanks for the feedback.

I was planning on getting the start collecting box to, well, start collecting, which has Ahriman in it, and use him as a regular exalted sorc for now (rather save the extra points for something else. a prince was also being considered as a expansion purchase.

I am aware that the sons arent super competivite at the moment but since im a basically a total n00b in regards to actual playtime in the last 5 editions, im not hughly worried about competing. that, and no matter if i loose, Tzeentch still wins!

Hello friends. I have a question for all of you Exalted Sorcerers.

I'm working on assembling some thousand sons. My playlists are fun and with friends, I was just wondering as to what the most effective anti tank units are in the list? If you were to play at 1,000 points, what Anti-tank unit would you absolutely have to have? At 1500? At 2000?

I'm still new myself but it seems like our best options for anti tank are lascannons, which means dreadnoughts and predators.

Magnus is scary good at AT. I think a lot of 1ksons lists doing the business on TTS are running him.

Rubrics & Scarabs can be AT with the stratagems: +1 wounding, with rapid fire, is almost guaranteed to shred T7 3+ 13ish W vehicle model in one salvo, if you have 10 scarabs or 20ish rubrics. You will loose effectiveness as you lose models, and this practically stops working if you cannot affored the stratagem. But on the other hand you can stay full infantry and use webway/teleport and moving strats easily, and combo this with exalted or prince to re-roll 1s.

ok quick question. do you guys think 2 x 10 rubicae is better or worse than 1x 20 rubicae? I'm playing with my planned list and I'm dithering over weather two squads able to work seperately or one big blob i can use tricks like risen rubicae on for maxium Tzeentchen fun.

Just landed a pair of Tsons Contemptor dreads. Wondering the best load out. Based on our lack of AT double lascannon seems like the route to go. Although they are a little more expensive than our las preds they don't suffer from being degraded and are easier to hid. What are peoples thoughts on them @ 190pts.

skycapt44 wrote:
Just landed a pair of Tsons Contemptor dreads. Wondering the best load out. Based on our lack of AT double lascannon seems like the route to go. Although they are a little more expensive than our las preds they don't suffer from being degraded and are easier to hid. What are peoples thoughts on them @ 190pts.

The Volkites would be pretty decent, 16 S5(6?) shots with 2 damage an additional mortals isn't going to annihilate any vehicles, but can do some work in degrading them or getting those last few wounds off.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
ok quick question. do you guys think 2 x 10 rubicae is better or worse than 1x 20 rubicae? I'm playing with my planned list and I'm dithering over weather two squads able to work seperately or one big blob i can use tricks like risen rubicae on for maxium Tzeentchen fun.

right now, I'd like to think that you are almost always better with a single massive unit on account that you can only get a single instance of a power off per turn. Running Duplicity, you have the choice of the redeploy power or whatever you chose to give to the Aspiring Sorceror, And the same for the others.

As for the cover thing? you can benefit when you lose enough models, yes?

Trying to help my friend build his 1kSons army, and need a TAC list build for him. I am building it as a birthday present, and I have three squads a rubrics and a few Scarab occult terminators, but not sure what else he might need. I thought about making him a Chaos Daredo Dread, but is that really their best bet? Any help is appreciated!

How do we feel about the ratio of Cultists/Tzaangors to Rubrics? I've played a few games with just Rubrics for my troops and they just seem too expensive for what they are.

Rubrics, like all Chaos Marines outside of Deathguard are just terrible value propositions until they get their 9th Ed update. Their cost for a one-wound model is just wrong and feels bad to invest points in.

For now Cultists and Gors win that fight.

What are people feeling about the cult relics?

The Cult of Time relic is good but recently Ive been looking at the capricious crest. It essentially saves us a CP on a reroll for a psychic test and auto passes it, we make alot of psychic tests and ive yet to not use it, but is resurrecting a demon prince one per game the better option?

Right now my favorite is the +1 to psychic tests from the cult of magic, but the pythic brazier from the cult of prophecy seems strong as well. The cult of time relic is awesome on a demon prince!

Well, its been confirmed that the tsons are getting a new codex soon (I'm guessing within 3 months). Are their any predictions as to what new content/rules/models etc we may see?

Me, I expect something that lets us break the standard psychic rules. Something like either removing the cumulative penalty for smite spsm, or maybe a bonus to psychic tests for every psyker in close proximity. Either way, i feel we should be doing as much damage in the psychic phase as in the shooting or fight phases. I'm ok with us having less capacity in those phases if we can make up for it with MW spam or widespread buff/debuff form psykers.

So someone posted the points cost in the N&R thread. Here is link https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/150/798531.page. I am very happy with what I am seeing so far. 21 points for a 2w Rubric is good even if they keep the exact same rules they currently have (I expect them to get better like most 9th edition things). 40 points for a 3w SoT is a steal. The points don't show anything for power sword or inferno bolter in their entry, so the 40 includes those. That is really only like a 2 or 3 point increase as you had to pay for the equipment previously. Dreadnoughts are only up 5 points, and presumable will have the -1 damage, so 135 for a twin LC and either ML or a CCW is great. 7 point Tgors! yes. 70 point Tgor Shaman, also yes! Hopefully the Enlightened will be improved, but so far I think this is good (I was expecting Rubrics at like 22 or 23 and SoT at like 45). Can't wait to see Magnus. Bought one right before COVID and have not even gotten a game in with him yet.

As for what our rules will be. Based on looking at some of the other 9th edition codex, they really have been taking the army theme up to 11. As ours is magic, I am expecting obnoxious levels of MW. Like crazy bad. I have a feeling people are really really going to hate playing against TS for that reason. Also games will be long with really long psychic phases (although they already do that). What are other fellow Sorcerers thinking?

 xeen wrote:
So someone posted the points cost in the N&R thread. Here is link https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/150/798531.page.

Thank you !

I am pretty new to the hobby and for now I've pretty much only played 500 and 1000pts lists at my FLGS. But I've mostly played against Death Guard players and the Sot felt very lacklustre, especially compared to their Plaguelords. So I hope they'll get some love !

I don't really have a good point of reference for the changes in points yet, so I can't say much about it.

Still, I am very exited for our new codex ! Do you all think we'll have more new units ? Other then our new HQ, I mean.

DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 xeen wrote:
So someone posted the points cost in the N&R thread. Here is link https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/150/798531.page.

Thank you !

I am pretty new to the hobby and for now I've pretty much only played 500 and 1000pts lists at my FLGS. But I've mostly played against Death Guard players and the Sot felt very lacklustre, especially compared to their Plaguelords. So I hope they'll get some love !

I don't really have a good point of reference for the changes in points yet, so I can't say much about it.

Still, I am very exited for our new codex ! Do you all think we'll have more new units ? Other then our new HQ, I mean.

unknown, but i'm gonna say unlikely. several armies have had a codex drop with just a single model released with it. I fully expect both the GK and the Tsons to be the same. they seem to be putting much more focus on making the existing ranges more playable and supporting diversified army lists. So, i'd expect them to put effort into making the less used parts of the Tsons more viable, than adding more units.

As for what our rules will be. Based on looking at some of the other 9th edition codex, they really have been taking the army theme up to 11. As ours is magic, I am expecting obnoxious levels of MW. Like crazy bad. I have a feeling people are really really going to hate playing against TS for that reason. Also games will be long with really long psychic phases (although they already do that). What are other fellow Sorcerers thinking?

the more i think about it, the more i think that rather than pure MW spam, they might try and focus our powers more on the "tricksy" side of things, with funky buff/debuffs, weird movement tricks, etc. the overall effect it to leave the opponent guessing and let the Tsons player approach full skaven levels of sneakyness, which i feel is more lore-appropriate than "living artillery" mages spamming force lighting MW spells.

I agree. It would be awesome if we had cool tricks (I love duplicity). But MW are easy ....and it is GW.....

- Daemon Prince drop. If he has still the same profile, it's a must.

- The one who leaked the DG news, also said that TS were gonna get a new apostol, so maybe that warp infernal (or whatever) is an apostol. Anyways, we don't need more HQ, so its not something so good.

- Tzaangors to 7p are very nice. Poxwalkers cost 5p and are 7+ saves. Tzaangors are F4 R4 6+ 5++ AP -1, Tzaangors are definetly good troops.

- Rubrics 21p for 2W are very good. If warpflamer is 12'', rubrics will be very strong.

- Cultist useless like Death Guard ones.

- Terminators for 40p are very good. Missiles dropped points, reaper cannon dropped points. We are an army with low damage so it will be a must.

- Tzaangor shaman 70p: Nice to have, but let's wait for the profiles.

The army will cost about the same for a lot more resistance. We still have to wait for the profiles. We need 3++ on characters because we have not the same surviving resources as DG. We have no FNP, no high R, no damage reduction... All is dust must be available for all the army (characters, enginees...) or we will still be super-low-tier.

What is also nice is the rubric box comes with ten flamers. So we will very likely keep the whole squad being able to take flamers. At 27 points that is 129 for a squad with 4 plus sorcerer. Likely also will be 12 inches. With deep strike or if duplicity is still a thing they are going to be really good.

Trend of Drukhari and Admech (latest two codexes) was to have massive number of attacks from relatively cheap units. I am speculating that thousand sons will counter that. So, I expect Rubric Marines to have 2+ save against 1 damage weapon, plus they will ignore all AP1 and AP2. Same for Occult terminators too.

So all those many many hits that Drukhari and Admech has now will face a flat 2+ armour save and translate to very few wounds actually getting through against Rubrics.

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/Mf3Ja5A

From N&R thread. Notice all vehicles get inferno bolters. Not game breaking but nice. Enlightened down to 6 model units. Sucks as I have 9. Oh well. Command stuff looks cool.