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Need help against VC, as I've never played against them before. Any suggestions on a list?


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Heres the list I have so far.

Dreadlord Heavy Armour/Shield/Sea Dragon Cloak/Ring of Darkness/Chillblade on Black Dragon 565

Dark Warriors shields 21 unit War Banner 187

Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen 2 units of 10 2000

Hero/Master Heavy/Armour/Shield/Sea Dragon Cloak/Deathpiercer/Pearl of Infinite Bleakness 160

Cold One Knights 135

Black Guard of Naggarond Always Strike First Banner unit of 14 231

Level 2 Sorceress two dispel scrolls 185

Two War Hydras 350

I'm at 2013 so far with this list. The Hero/Master of course will run with the Cold One Knights. Should I add more Black Guard? Another Sorceress? Your thoughts?

Get rid of dispell scrolls on sorceress and get perhaps a tome of furion (more chance of those big template spells). Need more firepower as there is going to be a lot of them. Also get a BSB to combat the fear they cause. Maybe you could get a unit of 5 dark riders with Xbows, would be good for getting under half range and scoring lots of hits.

Dragon is good, use that to fly ahead, march block and cause lots of destruction, while your Xbow men pour in lots of fire.

What is the point of having a lvl 2 wizard if it is your only magic? Your 4 casting dice will do nothing at 750, why do you think it will do anything at 2250? If you are going with a scroll caddy, you might as well just make it a lvl 1 to save points.

I don't really see the point of your master other than a guy who eats up points and a hero slot. If he is going to be in CoK unit, he is already immune to fear, terror is weakened, and with LD 9 they shouldn't panic. What is the point of the pearl?

Your dreadlord isn't very good either. Chillblade is too expenisve, and is really only good against low T, something DE don't need help with. Since you are facing VC you don't have to worry about shooting at all. So what is the point of the ring of darkness? Give him the pendant, it is both cheaper and better.

I suggest putting a champion in the unit of black guard and giving him crimson death. It really is very good. Configured that way it is as lethal as many hero level characters.

Since you are going with a big block of warriors, and no magic, you might as well make that master a bsb and give him the banner of Nagarythe. Put him in the warrior block, bump the warriors up to 24 strong, and be happy with your 7 or better static res block that is completely unbreakable.

If you want a unit specifically to take out VC, try witches. High volume of poison attacks means they kill normal VC units quite easily. Run them in a small unit, 7-14 strong, and 6-7 wide to maximize attacks. They are frenzied, so until they lose a combat aren't worried about fear at all. 7 wide with no upgrades is 21 attacks with poison and hatred. The unit goes through VC ghouls and skeletons and esp zombies like they weren't even there. With poison they even have a chance to take down a Varghulf.

So are you saying I should go with two Level 2 Sorceress? The only reason I added a Hero/Master to the unit of Coks was to added some punch with the charge. I won many battles with this combo. What else do you suggest I do with my Dreadlord. Will add him pendant for sure. I was thinking of possibly making this a Khainite army and using the Caldron of Blood.

Actually, against VC you might well consider going with a Supreme Sorceress - or even Malekith/Morethai - for more magical OOOMPH!.

If you do, you can probably downgrade the Sorceresses to level 1 scroll caddies - but you want all the antimagic you can get against VC. There's little more frustrating worse than blasting one of his units down to 3-4 models... and having him magic it back to its starting strength.

2 lvl 2s works at sub 2k only. I personally bring 6 dispel at 2k, so 6 casting dice at 2250 is going to be ineffectual against VC whom are almost always magic heavy (which means decent defense, 5 dice at lowest).

To be honest though, you won't need the magic casting dice as much as you need the dispel dice. VC ability to spam 1 dice casting when they bring 10+ dice means that you need to have a decent number of dispel to keep the raising to a min. But since you want to run a dragon list, which is fine as long as you are VERY aggressive with the flame breath, it means the most you can practically manage is 4 dispel dice and 2 scrolls. So what I would do is make the dreadlord as cheap as a dragon lord can be, give him a seal of ghrond, and take a scroll caddy (lvl 1). The other (and my personal choice) is to take a lvl 4 (dagger, blackstaff, or focus familiar) and at least an additional lvl 2(tome, dagger, or cloak) and a master with the seal of ghrond as the general.

Avoid special characters though, the extra oomph they have is very real, but the high cost is even more so.

The way to beat VC is point efficiency. Every point that isn't every or almost every turn killing things, means their ability to raise more bodies is going to work better. Just keeping up is hard for even DE to do, wasting points on things that don't actually generate kills just doesn't work. (I don't suggest ever bringing harpies against VC for instance) The exception is of course if you can make a high SCR unit that is also unbreakable or ItP stubborn. Since DE SCR blocks can also generate kills, those types of blocks combined with another unit can make quick work of a VC block.

This looks like a fun army to play with, but it lacks magic power.

Dreadlord Heavy Armour/Shield/Sea Dragon Cloak/Pendant on Black Dragon 510

Dark Warriors shields 27 warriors BSB unbreakable 394

Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen 2 units of 10 200

Witch Elves 2 units of 14

Cold One Knights 135

Black Guard of Naggarond 130

Level 1 Sorceress 4 dispel scrolls 200

Two War Hydras 350

I think you doubled the magic allowance on the sorceress.

And given the VC's stong magic phase, she's not going to do any good on her own, even if she could have 4 dispel scrolls. You'll blow thorugh those on turn 1 trying to slow down the VC's 1 die spell spam.

Thanks man, rookie mistake. The Dark Riders here will bait the Blood Knights out of combat complety. I'm hoping to double team his units with at less one War Hydra and unit of Witch Elves or Chariot. This is at 2030 now. Should I just added two units of 10 Crossbowmen? Should I give a unit of Witch Elves a banner? Or should I just add the Caldron of Blood?

Dreadlord Heavy/Armour/Shield/Sea Dragon Cloak/Pendant on Manticore 390

Dark Warriors shields 27 unit War BSB Unbreakable 394

Dark Riders unit of 5 riders 85

Cold One Knights 135

Witch Elves 2 units of 14 280

Cold One Chariot 100

Level 1 Sorceress two dispel scrolls 150

Level 1 Sorceress two dispel scrolls 150

Two War Hydras 350

Liokaiser wrote:Thanks man, rookie mistake. The Dark Riders here will bait the Blood Knights out of combat complety. I'm hoping to double team his units with at less one War Hydra and unit of Witch Elves or Chariot. This is at 2030 now. Should I just added two units of 10 Crossbowmen? Should I give a unit of Witch Elves a banner? Or should I just add the Caldron of Blood?

Dreadlord Heavy/Armour/Shield/Sea Dragon Cloak/Pendant on Manticore 390

Dark Warriors shields 27 unit War BSB Unbreakable 394

Dark Riders unit of 5 riders 85

Cold One Knights 135

Witch Elves 2 units of 14 280

Cold One Chariot 100

Level 1 Sorceress two dispel scrolls 150

Level 1 Sorceress two dispel scrolls 150

Two War Hydras 350

I still think you're going to have a very hard time even slowing down the VC's magic phase. You might consider a Master on the manticore, and spend your excess points on a Supreme Sorceress.

But heck, it's your army, don't let me tell you what to do. I have been wrong on occasion.

I still have 220 to spend. I can easily upgrade without changing to a Hero. So instead of Two Level 1, I should change to one Level 1 and a Supreme Socrceress?

If you are specifically gearing up against VC and wanting specifically to slow their magic phase, you will have a hard time without having a magic-heavy army yourself. Points-wise, a lv.1 is much cheaper for the sake of magic defense than a lv.3 by far. It also leaves your Lord position free for something bigger if that's what you're wanting.

I think youre two caddies are fine, if not a little excessive, and you could maybe toss in a Seal of Ghrond somewhere for an additional Dispel Die if you really wanted it.

Kirbinator wrote:If you are specifically gearing up against VC and wanting specifically to slow their magic phase, you will have a hard time without having a magic-heavy army yourself. Points-wise, a lv.1 is much cheaper for the sake of magic defense than a lv.3 by far. It also leaves your Lord position free for something bigger if that's what you're wanting.

I think youre two caddies are fine, if not a little excessive, and you could maybe toss in a Seal of Ghrond somewhere for an additional Dispel Die if you really wanted it.

I haven't actually played against VC myself, but I have read lots of battle reports where the VC sucessfully kick out a half-dozen spells a turn... after accounting for enemy counter-magic. They can spam a lot of one-dice stuff to run you out of counters, then bring up the important spells while you can't do anything. Or you let them run off a bunch of 'animate dead' spells (I forget what the actual name of it is) and now they've completely undone everything you've accomplished with shooting/CC the past turn, in the hope of countering their big gun... which they no longer need, because they've weakened your force, and theirs in now back up to full strength.

To beat VC, it looks like you either need some way to kill the general reliably, or you need to keep their magic phase under control. Either that or be able to generate enough casualties to outright crush whole units on the charge....

Game ended in a draw, slighty on my favor.

What was your final army list?

This is the list I used. I wish I didn't take out the dragon I had in my list as the guy I was playing had a dragon.

Hero/Master Heavy/Armour/Shield/Sea Dragon Cloak/Pendant on Cold One

Dark Warriors shields 21 unit War Banner

Dark Riders unit of 5 riders 85

Cold One Knights 135

Witch Elves 2 units of 14 280

Executiconers unit of 10 130

Suprume Socress four dispel scrolls 325

Level 1 Sorceress two dispel scrolls 150

Two War Hydras 350

Caldroun of Blood