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Well I have to say that the finals were both some of the best and the worst gaming experiences that I have had. All I will say about it is that sometimes winning with plastic men is very important to some people. No flame war today. It is also worth noting that there were no whimsical scenarios at all. All of them were pitched battles with various bonus points to be earned. On with the bat reps!
My list:
Teclis
Lv 4 wizard- silver wand, dispel scroll, Ring of fury
Lv. 2- Seerstaff, Dispel
BSB- Steed, full armor kit, Battle Banner
Caradryan
10 archers
2 Units of 10 spearmen
12 sword masters Lion standard
14 phoenix guard- Banner of sorcery
5 dragon princes- Banner of Ellyrion
Eagle
5 bolt throwers
Round 1
Round one I played a fine gentleman who played with a warriors of chaos army. His list:
Lord w/ MOK, C rune shield, C rune sword, Jugger
3 lv 2 sorcerers. 2 w/ 2 dispels. 1 w/ Infernal puppet
BSB- no magic items, just a shield.
5 puppies
5 puppies
2 units of 15 warriors- MoS shields Standard, Musician
2 units of 20 Marauders- MoK Great weapons
2 units of 5 marauder horsemen- MoK, Flails
2 units of 5 Knights- MoN
2 Spawn
Giant- MoS

His set up had a unit of horsemen and knights on either flank. One unit of knights had his general. The other flank had the giant. Two warrior units and the marauders took the center shielded by the puppies and spawn. Each unit of marauders had a wizard and one unit of warriors had the BSB and a wizard. My setup had the DP across from the flank with the giant. Next to them was a patch of trees and the eagle hid behind them. Then it was spearmen, phoenix guard, spearmen, and then sword masters. The archers took a hill beyond that. Bolt throwers were dispersed on the hill and throughout the line. Two of his wizards had lore of tzeentch, one had lore of fire. Teclis took High magic, the level 4 took heavens, and the lv. 2 took lore of metal. With the skein sliver’s help I won first turn.

Turn one
The knights stayed put, awaiting their mounted and monstrous foes. The eagle flew to the middle of the field to later march block. Teclis was in with the phoenix guard and the lv. 2 was with the sword masters. These two units moved forward to be within 24 inches of the foe. The magic phase and shooting phase saw me kill off one unit of puppies and one unit of horsemen, and bring the other unit down to 2. The other puppies broke and fled in front of a warrior unit. One of the marauder foot units lost 9 men and the wizard in there took a wound to the lore of metal targeting spell. The giant was also cut down with bolt thrower fire.
On his turn, he moved everything forward at full speed. The only thing that didn’t move was the warrior units that were pinned behind the puppies who chose to rally and box them in. His general and knights ran behind some trees to try to get cover from bolt throwers. His magic was snuffed by my defense. On to turn two!

Turn two
Turn two saw more of the same from me. My knights remained still, in a waiting game. He tried to bait them with the remaining marauders, but the Knights of Nurgle were ready for the counter charge. The guard and sword masters inched back. Teclis moved down the battle line and the eagle marched blocked the foot troops. Magic and shooting continued unabated. This turn saw the unit of knights with the general brought to only the standard bearer. I finished off the one unit of marauders on foot and their wizard and started on the other one, killing half. I think I also killed one of the spawn at this point too.
His turn two found his general just out of range of my bolt throwers, so he marched them forward to minimize the number that could see them. The other nurgle knight charged a bolt thrower, who failed their fear check and ran, causing the nurgle knights to hit the phoenix guard instead. The marauders were forced to charge the sword masters as well. Magic again proved no balm for my foe and we then moved to combat. The sword masters decimated the marauders and broke them capturing their standard. The knights won combat, slaying 5 phoenix guard for no loss, but the guard stayed. On to turn 3!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Turn Three
I had a few charges this turn. My knights charged the horsemen, who fled, but did not out run the knights. The sword masters charged the flank of one of the warrior units that their overrun exposed. And in an act of cool heroics, Caradryan charged the spawn. That turned out to be just a silly thing. The fleeing bolt thrower crew refused to rally despite Teclis giving them Ld. 10, and they fled the field. Magic and shooting were focused as much on the lord and knight as could be. The lord was slain by a randomized single bolt from a bolt thrower and the lonely knight soon followed. The few remaining puppies were offed as there was little else to see. Combat had the sword masters champ kill the enemy wizard and the unit killed three of the chaos warriors. With the combo of that and the flank charge, the unit broke and was run down, causing the sword masters to hit the flank of the other warriors. The knights ate another handful of phoenix guard, but Teclis had a spell in play that made them stubborn, so they held again. They still had not killed a single knight. Caradryan failed to hurt the spawn, who decided to fail to hurt him back despite rolling 7 attacks! Caradryan passed his break check.

There was not much left for my opponent to do at this point. Everything he had was in combat. He had no magic left so we rolled right to the fighting. The sword masters champ challenged the BSB and killed him. The unit killed three of the warriors and broke the unit, kill them and capturing another banner. The knights killed more guard, still didn’t take a wound, and the guard stuck. There were only two or three of them left at this point. Caradryan did one wound to the spawn. Just one! And that was that.
The end phase of the game had my spearmen try to charge the flanks of the knights to save the guard. One failed their fear test, the other got in. The knights wiped out the guard in the end and then chased down and killed the spearmen on the last turn. Caradryan ended the game doing one more wound to the spawn, but he didn’t kill the cursed thing! And that was about it.

My thoughts: Well first and foremost, I would like to say that this man I played had a smile the whole time. I know the ‘Ard boyz is about winning, but this fellow took a massive loss with a smile and good humor. He had a grace in defeat that many people could learn from. I had a great game against a great person and would love to play him again anytime. It is also worth mentioning that after first round, there were about 6 players, who had been massacred, who simply packed up and left. My opponent was not one of them. He was a class act all around and kudos to you Mr. Acrey.
My MVP was without a doubt the sword masters. They really went to town in this game. Their end tally was 2 wizards, one BSB, and 4 captured banners. Not a bad days work. On the other end, Caradryan just fell flat. I think it was five or six combat rounds and he still did not kill that dang spawn. I think he left his halberd at the shop or something. Also, a special award to the knights of nurgle, who were determined to win the game by themselves. In the entirety of the game I killed only one of their unit, and it was with the lore of metal spell. I couldn’t hurt them with bolts or blades.
So that was my first round.

Round two:
Not the best fun I’ve had. To avoid a flame war, I will say this: He played demons. I won a convincing victory. The end.

Round three:
This was another demon player. We both did well in our first two games and saw ourselves at the heady heights of table 3! His list was as follows:
Kairos
Great unclean one- lv. 3, Staff of Nurgle, Trappings of Nurgle
Blue Scribes
Skulltaker on Jugger
Herald of Nurgle- BSB w/ Sundering, Plaquin, Staff of Nurgle.
Herald of Tzeentch- lv. 2, Master of sorcery, spellbreaker
15 Plague bearers
3 units of 10 Horrors
A unit of 29 Horrors. Skulltaker and the Herald of Tzeentch were in here
7 furies
His army was interesting for me, as it was very, very similar to the demon army I had played in round 2. Internet cut-and-paste? Who knows. On with the show.
His setup had Kairos, Bluescribes, and a unit of 10 horrors hiding behind a building on one flank. The other two units of 10 Horrors were in the middle, the big horror unit, then the plague bearers. The furies were on the other flank. The Unclean One was behind the small horror units.
My set up had the Princes across from where Kairos was hiding. My setup zone had a big hill in it, and I castled my troops around this point. In the front was: spearmen, Sword masters, spearmen, Guard. My eagle was on the end across from the furies. Teclis picked High magic, the lv. 4 took shadow, and the lv. Two took heavens.
My opponent went first and moved everyone forward. Kairos and bluescribes stayed out of sight of everything except the knights. The unit of horrors with them entered the building. The furies flew down the flank. Magic was not that big this round as Kairos had little to vent his fury on. A few wounds here and there.
My turn one had the BSB and his unit of princes march forward to get on the flank of the main battle line. Caradryan joined the bolt thrower that was threatened by the furies. The eagle flew around to march block the demon line. Magic was little better for me. I think the only thing I got off was a little spell or two. Shooting saw a wound here and there and, importantly, the furies were brought down to 4 models despite my best efforts to wipe them out.

Turn two things heated up. The first part was a rules snafu that they decided was the way to play it at this tourney. The judges said that if your charge brought you within an inch of an enemy unit, then they were drawn into the combat. This ‘ahem’ interesting rules interpretation had vast effects on our game, and the other high table games as well. This ruling came up when my foe tried to charge past the first bolt thrower and hit the second. It would have been a tight squeeze either way, but with that ruling, most of my army would have been in combat with the furies. We decided to forgo that charge and he flew them behind the hill instead. Magic saw the princes wiped out, leaving a sad BSB all alone. Some spearmen were killed, and I realized that the staff of Nurgle uses the lowest toughness in a unit, making any unit with Teclis marked for squishy death. No combat yet.
My turn two had the BSB charge a unit of 10 horrors in the flank and Caradryan charge the furies. Magic was mostly canceled out, Teclis refused to roll irresistible force for nearly the whole game. The level 4 got Pit of shades off on the nurgle block killing a few, and the two 10 man horror units not engaged were blasted at, one being wiped out. Since Kairos was nice enough to peek his head out, every bolt thrower volleyed at him. Those more proficient in math can tell me if I would have been better off with single bolts, but my gut said volley, so volley I did. I brought ‘ol feater face down to one wound. Couldn’t quite finish him. Stupid 3+ ward! Combat saw the BSB stay locked, and Caradryan refuse to kill anything and stayed locked as well. And that ended that.

Turn three saw a critical mistake by my opponent. In his defense, he had come in shortly before the event and had precious little sleep before hand. In fact our game was punctuated by yawning. At any rate, he neglected to move Kairos into hiding. Actually, he forgot to move him at all. Everything else moved forward some more, slowed by the eagle. His magic saw Kairos try to fry everything on the table, sensing that his doom was near. The sword masters lost half ther number, some spearmen died, and a few phoenix guard died as well. For this battle, our magic mostly bounced off each other. Combat saw Caradryan kill 1 fury and stay locked and the BSB killed some horrors and stayed locked.
My turn three had little moving. The only exception was the undamaged unit of spearmen racing for his table edge for a tourney point. Everything waited upon magic and shooting. In the magic phase Teclis finally showed some life by getting the flames of the phoenix spell off on the big unit of horrors. But my cursed opponent made many of the ward saves and I only killed 5 or so. A couple more of the plague bears died and we moved to the important part. Again I volleyed many shots at Kairos and he was eventually killed. I also killed the bluescribes that was sneaking around. Combat was again boring. Both heroes stuck.

On his turn four, Skulltaker charged out of the unit and into my depleted spearmen unit. Everyone else moved forward. Magic did little, but he did forget to cancel the flames spell in his magic phase. We then moved onto combat. The BSB and Caradryan finally disposed of their foes. Thank goodness! Skulltaker did what he does best and over-ran into a bolt thrower. This is where things get hinky. He was only in contact with one bolt thrower, but since he was within an inch of three other units, they were all considered in combat with him! This turned a game that was to my advantage to an even fight again as in one move he tied up almost all my shooting and a chunk of magic too. It is worth noting that neither my opponent nor I wished to play it that way, but the judge was standing there at that point and he told us that was how we had to play it. Complete foolishness.
My turn saw me desperately try to undo the trouble I was in. Caradryan joined the vastly depleted unit of Guard and prepared to receive the nurgle block’s charge next turn. The spearmen continued their end run to the enemy deployment zone. Then it was on to magic. The flames of the phoenix killed a lot of the horrors this turn. And the level 4 cast steed of shadows and whipped herself out of combat. That was all that I got through and my foe used his remaining diec to counter the flames spell. Shooting saw me firing what I had left at the horror unit, trying to finish it for some needed points. At the end, only the herald was left. Combat saw skulltaker kill the level 2 mage, winning combat and breaking two units. My archers, however, stayed and kept him tied up.

His turn five saw the great unclean one charge the remaining sword masters. The nurgle block charged a bolt thrower. The herald of Tzeentch, who now had 360 line of sight again, charged the level 4 mage, who fled from the charge. The magic phase saw me struggling to keep his spells at bay. I countered the two staffs of nurgle, and the Unclean one’s spells, and a beast cowers cast at my BSB. But due to the fact that my lv 4 was running and did not generate any dispel dice, it left my foe with an opening. He got off a spell that did 2D6 S 3 or 4 hits on my level 4 mage. Well, that’s it I thought. But when he rolled for the number of hits….snake eyes! The dice were even cruel enough to not allow him to wound on either of those hits. So I really dodged a bullet there. Combat saw Skulltaker chase off the archers. The nurgle block killed the bolt thrower crew and overran into the phoenix guard. The Unclean one was nice enough to fluff his rolls and only killed one sword master. Since they had the lion standard, they didn’t auto break, and I passed my break check.
This was to be the last turn. Time to make some points back! The BSB charged the herald of Tzeentch. The level 4 mage rallied, but only just. The spearmen ran into his deployment zone. There was not much that I could do with magic, since all his forces were engaged. The same for what shooting I had left. So onto the hitting! The great unclean one finished off the sword masters. The BSB killed the herald. And Caradryan challenged, only to be answered by the champion, thwarting his chance to kill the herald. I challenged because I was not in base with the herald, in case you were curious. That combat was uneventful, and the game was over.

We ended with a tie. I blame this foolish ruling that the judges had. If we were not forced into it, Skulltaker would have eaten one bolt thrower and blown through, and off the table, leaving 2 mages, a unit of archers and another 2 bolt throwers to do what they do best. Such is life I suppose. My opponent, Mr. Gallegos, was a top notch performer. Only one mistake all game is very impressive after gaming all day on no sleep. I wonder how I would have fared if he were rested. This was a close fought game with the leading floating back and forth several times. Mr. Gallegos was a great opponent, I would go so far as to say one of the best games I have had in 16 years of gaming. The few disputes were handled easily and with no hard feelings or aggression. He is what gamers should aspire to be. Thank you Mr. Gallegos and I hope to face you again! As for my thoughts on this game…
Well Caradryan is neat on paper, but for God’s sake he let me down in this tourney. Teclis either brought the fire, or didn’t roll worth a dang. Not much in the middle ground for him. And my eagle is the unsung hero of march blocking. Good job doom chicken!

As for the tourney as a whole, just these thoughts… Almost every army made by GW was represented in this tourney. Only Tomb Kings, Beasts, and Ogres were absent. There were two Chaos Dwarf players for goodness sake! Overall, there were 12 demon players in about 55 players. Not the overwhelming percent I feared there would be. However, in the end tally, in the top ten finishers, there were 6 demon players. Only one demon player did not finish in the top 50%. I really wish GW would address this fact. If players want to win, play demons. Oh, and a special congrats again for the 2nd place winner. He played Bretonnia people! What a come-behind win for that guy! That’s all I have for now. Hope you enjoyed it!

Thanks for the reports, the pics were especially lovely. Dig that last dude's Kairos the uber-chicken I forget how you did overall in the other thread, or must have missed it in these posts, but well played all the same

- Salvage

I ended up in 5th place. Not too shabby says I. Yeah that last guy had some gorgeous conversions. The Unclean one was heavily converted too. Very nice stuff.

Very nice, thanks! Great report and pics.

I don't think that was played right. Units within 1" MAY join the combat. And that's a house rule - yes, the judges at 'Ard Boyz ruled that they were allowing it, but you don't HAVE to join in as far as I know.

I was kind of around for your second game [I'm actually the guy in the black shirt in your first picture of your third game], but missed all the details about what happened.

I do know that hearing "FateWEAVAH!!!" about ten times during the tournament was annoying as HELL.

It's a ruling from one of the FAQ's...Though they say it's an optional rule, but suggest you play by it.

but again, isn't it optional? Not the rule, I mean the choice whether to allow your units to join a combat that's nearby, even if they weren't charged?

Yeah, the fateweaver calls were a bit annoying. The FAQ said it was optional. I had asked the judge about it after the tourney. He said that he would NOT have used it, but he found a pair of tables that insisted on it for game one. The judge said that since it had already affected the results of the tourney, he had to stick with it for the whole day. Such is life. I have never used that before, and, God willing, will never have to again.

Nope...It's not optional. (The drawn in/sliding rule use is optional, though suggested...But if you are using the rules, you don't have a choice about getting drawn in or not.)

Sounds to me like a misinterpretation of the actual rule/appendix. Given the actual text , I find it hard to picture how so many units could possibly be drawn in against a single 50mm wide character.

Check it out:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m470856_Warhammer_FAQ_2008-02_Edition.pdf

Charging multiple targets

It often happens that two or more units are lined up next
to one another, so that a charge against one will result in
others becoming involved (see Fig.1 below).

In Figure 1, for example, a charge against the left hand
unit will inevitably bring the other unit into combat. In a
case like this the charging player should declare his
charge against whichever unit he intends to bring most
models to bear against. However, because it is inevitable
that other units will be brought into the combat they are
also allowed to make a normal charge response – ie, a
unit can flee, stand & shoot or hold even if it is not the
target of the charge, if is inevitable it will become
engaged in the combat.

Of course, units will normally not line up exactly. It is
inevitable that a charge will reach one unit before the
other if only by a fraction of an inch. So, where do you
draw the line? If a unit is a fraction of an inch behind one
to its side, does it avoid combat or is it drawn into the
fighting?

The best way to deal with this is to stop the charge as
soon as it hits any unit then align the charge to the unit
as normal. If the process of alignment carries you into
further enemy units then those units become drawn into
the combat and the whole lot are aligned into a battleline
in order to bring as many models into combat as
possible. In these cases it is often necessary to move all
the units, chargers and targets, in order to form a
convincing battleline. Units hit during realignment have
the usual options for charged troops: they can flee, hold
or stand & shoot.

It can happen that a unit finds itself just out of combat
because it is fractionally further away than one lined next
to it, or at a slight angle compared to the chargers. In
reality the chargers would not simply stop and form a
neat line whilst their enemy are so close. Therefore, the
chargers are automatically moved into contact if they are
within 1" of the second enemy unit and assuming the
chargers have enough move left to reach them. Move the
enemy unit into position, as this is usually easiest, or
shuffle all the units together until a battleline is formed.

Were they ruling that neighboring units were drawn into the SIDE of the charging character? Because I don't think that's what the above calls for at all.

What army was the winner playing? I presume DoC, but you never know.

See first post here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/267027.page

That rule says that the CHARGERS are moved to contact the other unit that's so close, like if they're a fraction of an inch away. That being said, I could see Skulltaker moving so that he was able to grab two units of boltthrowers, if they were THAT close to each other. But once he moves over to contact the second one, he'd be too far over to draw a THIRD into combat with him.

40Kenthusiast- This is a pic of the winner's army. But I do not know what upgrades he had. I talked to him for a couple minutes while we set up armies on movement trays.

The Demon prince guy was his second Bloodthirster. He had Skulltaker on Jugger. Two Heralds of Khorne, one on a jugger. And a herald of Tzeentch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mannahnin wrote:Sounds to me like a misinterpretation of the actual rule/appendix. Given the actual text , I find it hard to picture how so many units could possibly be drawn in against a single 50mm wide character.


Were they ruling that neighboring units were drawn into the SIDE of the charging character? Because I don't think that's what the above calls for at all.

Yeah, that was how they called it. Earlier in the battle, my opponent wanted to charge a bolt thrower with some furies and the judge said that not only would it drawn in the units on either side, but a unit of sword masters would somehow be drawn in even though they would have to move BACKWARDS to get in. My opponent was aces, he and I agreed to avoid that mess and move them somewhere else. Yeah, it was some crazy rules calls. But what can you do?

Well, I have watched this post grow and I had to register to say that I was the guy on the other side of the table sitting to your opponents right. I didn't know either of you before the event and I only somewhat know Will, your opponent, now, after speaking with him.

I will say this, and this alone. I didn't say anything at the time as it was a tournament. On what was turn 2 you, Gobstomp420, forgot to declare 2 different chargers and you had already moved all of your other units on the table. The two units you forgot to declare were your Swordmasters and some Spearmen. Will, being what I saw as a good guy allowed you to go back and still declare your chargers. One of your units failed the charge, out of range, and the other got in there, the Swordmasters. He gave you the two charges though things weren't looking all that great for him already. I thought he was one of the nicest players I had ever met for doing that. Then on his turn four he moved up his Bloodthirster and said, "well I guess I will put him here so he can charge next turn." He completed the rest of his turn. On your turn you were unable to kill the Thirster. At the start of his turn he picked up a single Flamer and moved it roughly 4-5 inches and moved it back and said, "oh yeah, the Thirster charges," or something of that nature, to which you replied, "sorry you already moved a model." I thought that was the shittiest thing I had ever seen from any gamer ever. He, Will, tried to explain to you that he had infact allowed you to declare a couple of other charges earlier and asked why you were being like this. You told him, "I don't remember you allowing me any charges after the fact," again one of the shittiest things I have ever seen from a gamer.

I don't agree with the fact that he proceeded to verbally put you in your place to an extent that I felt was a little harsh. Though one could argue that you did in fact earn the verbal beat-down you received. I don't really know either of you, but I will say that in his defense, Will's, I thought that he was one of the nicest gamers I had ever met, and pretty funny too. :-) So, as for you Gobstomp420 or whatever it is again, I would suggest telling the whole story before spamming negativity about gamers and their individual playgroups/areas. Additionally, I have been noticing that he did a report as well and he describes you as a douchebag, which I don't agree with, though you did kinda act like one for at least this moment in time. Other than that he just explained what happened.

Two sides to every coin, and this time I think you were on the wrong side sir.

I really don't know how the winner did it. Anything magic-heavy would, seemingly, clean him pretty good. Sure everything has some measure of magic resistance, but things like VC are dangerous because of spells they cast on their own units, not that target the enemy.

One issue:
He couldn't put Skulltaker in with the unit of Horrors. Only alike God aligned Heralds and characters can join a unit of the same God. You can't mix them.

Also great battle report like the pic's.

Skulltaker isn't a herald I believe, so can join any unit.