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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Misery. Missouri. Who can tell the difference.

The Zen of Converting Orks

The common mantra of Ork players is, “The bigger the better!” Yes, Orks love having the biggest most dakka sluggas, shootas they get their claws upon. I am the same way but there are a few things to remember when it comes to converting Orks and I have them broken down to three distinct items which are: Ratio, Balance and Zen.

Ratio

When one scans the gallery or painting and modeling sections of this website you will come across Orks with huge power klaws, boyz carrying auto cannons like Rambo or bitz slapped on that are way too small. While people are working with what bitz they have or trade locally for, one must understand the ratio factor when converting Ork, and for that fact any model no matter the army. By understanding ratio will save you time and money by helping you make correct bitz decisions on your models.

One Up Rule - The easy way to understand ratio when it comes to converting Orks is by comparing head bitz between the different sizes of the Orks which are: Grots, Boyz, Nobz/Mekboyz and Warboss. There is typically what I call the One Up Rule when talking about Ork bitz except for one class of Orks which is the Grots. The One Up Rule is where the head of a Boyz will still be in correct ratio with a Nobz body and a Nobz head will still be in correct ratio with a Warboss body. The reason Grots are not included in the One Up Rule is because the Grots were created with heads that were so much smaller than any other Ork model in production so if you applied the One Up Effect then the head and body would be out of ratio. This also goes for if you attempt to utilize an Ork Boyz head on a Warboss. This would be two up and it will throw the model out of ratio.

Other parts of the Ork bodies such as arms and legs can follow the same One Up Rules as they apply for Ork heads. However, if it requires the use of green stuff to connect the arms to the bodyfor example as in trying to connect Boyz shoota arms to a Nobz body. The chest is to large around for arms to fit flush to the shoulders and the hand to hold the bottom of the shoota. This means that the arms without extensive green stuff work to make them fit correctly so the bitz would be out of ratio.

I know people find parts on the Warboss kit that they want to use on a Nobz or a Boyz model and this does violate the One Up Rule since it will be out of ratio because the arms or head will be way too big without major cutting and sculpting. Also, this applies for weapons such as power klaws, twin-linked shootas, ECT. While metal Nobz and the box set at times expensive and hard to find, so the urge to make a Boyz into a Nobz with a AoBR power klaw seems to be a viable option. Since the AoBR Warboss is the cheapest model with a power klaw and most Ork players will have one sitting around and the urge to snip off the power klaw and glue it straight onto a Boyz Choppa arm might be too strong to resist. However, the power klaw from the AoBR Warboss on a Boyz violates the One Up Rule since the AoBR power klaw is almost as large as the Ork Boyz himself and could be used as a the business end of Deff Dread or Killa Kan close combat arm end. Thus the AoBR power klaw is out ratio and should not be used.

So the key thing to remember is the One Up Rule, no Grot Bitz on other models.


Nobz head bitz on an AoBR Warboss which is in Ratio using the One Up Rule.



Balance

Balance and Ratio almost go hand in hand however are different animals. While Ratio deals with individual bitz, Balance deals with the model as a whole and not just if the model can stand on its own. Balance is where there is not one part of model that is overpowering the rest of the model. To use the example above of the AoBR Warboss power klaw on an Ork Boyz to make a kit bashed Nobz. With the power klaw being so large on the Boyz it is completely out of Ratio on the model and most people would model it with the power klaw in the air. This power klaw is almost as big as the Boyz himself and with it sticking up in the air would draw most of the attention to this oversized appendage thus throwing off the aesthetics of the model.

A production Ork model which is produced by Games Workshop that comes close to a balance issue is the Mekboy with Shokk Attakk Gun. While the Nobz body is dwarfed by the gun, the gun is balanced out by the back pack and the vacuum hose on the model’s left side. If any of those elements were missing all the attention would be drawn to the weapon. This is the same with the Mekboy with Kustom Force Field since the Kustom Force Field back pack is so large it was balanced out by the Mekboy’s equally large Close Combat Weapon.

Balance is also key in the building of Ork vehicles. Ork vehicles are suppose to look ram shackled and added on to especially looted vehicles. However, nothing throws off the balance of a model like when a rhino has a six inch long, 2 inch wide PVC pipe sticking out of a Battlewagon turret. We all have seen these models, most of you are nice to the person and saying “Looks good.” “Like the idea.” A huge barrel or huge wheels from a toy mixed with the original tires on a Trukk throws off the balance of the model since the eyes are drawn to the tires or barrel and not the rest of the model.

A good use of parts for balance on a looted vehicle is the Battlewagon turret with the normal kannon on a Leman Russ in place of the normal Leman Russ turret. The turret is the correct ratio for the model and does not overpower the rest of the vehicle thus keeping everything in balance. Also, with a few seconds of heavy filling the Battlewagon turret will slip in nicely and turn 360 degrees.


Ork Battlewagon Turret on a Leman Russ Battle Tank as a Looted Vehicle which show a good use of Balance


The Big Meks Kustom Force Field is too large and high and the power klaw is from a Nobz which violates the Balance and Ratio Rules. These two items pull away from the rest of the model and to those two items.





Zen

Now for the last thing I use to make a successful scratch built Ork model is if the model has Zen. Zen is a like balance and ratio but is dealing with the actually Orkification of a looted vehicle or model. Orkification is the use Ork Glyphs, metal plating, banners, wiring and spare bitz. Most people that want to loot a vehicle first just plaster a vehicle with Ork Glyphs and metal plating, removing the original lines of the vehicle and even interrupt with the physics of the weapons. Even though Orks are able to think thata weapon will work and it does, but no matter how much positive waves can make a turret rotate threw a thick metal armor plate. Remember Orks can not violate the laws of physics, most of the time.

Just as in the balance section too big or too much Orkification will throw off the Zen of the model. While you Orkified a Leman Russ, nobody will be looking at the model as a whole but trying to make sense of the twenty plus icons on each side or a huge banner right next to a turret. The same goes with figures on foot. While you want to make a ‘ard Boyz and decide to add random armor bitz, but adding them all over out of spare bitz of card with no physical way that they could be attached to the Ork or the rest of his armor will throw off the Zen of the model. All that loose, unconnected armor bitz will make the model way to busy for most people to take seriously.

So the key thing to keep the Zen of the model is keep as much of the original lines as possible. Limit the icons to a ten or less on the entire model. As for armor plating look at the model, not all flat blank space needs to be covered with armor plating. If you want to place armor plating think of it being looted from the battlefield and armor plating is placed on where it is needed to cover the battle damage. Some of the icons are big enough for this purpose. Just remember that while Orks are not too bright they do know how to make weapons work so very small patchs on weapon barrels can be done. But since nothing will hinder their quest for the most dakka they can get you can be sure they know how to keep the a weapon’s elevation and rotation free. The best thing to do is to keep the glyphs and armor plates to a minimum, but use your paint job to Orkify your looted vehicle.


Keeping the Glyphs to a a few to keep the model in Zen


Vehicle was orginally hit in the rear. Armor Plates to repair the damage and a now a makeshift area boyz can hang on to when a transport.


The Shoota/Skorcha conversion utilizes Balance and Zen Rules since the Burna Bitz that was added does not draw attention away from the model as a whole and allows the eyes to observe the model without distraction.


This model utilizes the minimum amount of Ork Glyphs and the paint job to convey Orkiness and a good example of Zen

Here is two more examples of of my concepts in the article. First is an example of a Big Mek made from an AoBR Nob body using a AoBR Warboss Power Klaw. This is in violation of the one up rule since a Warboss bit was used on a model one step down. So this makes the model out of ratio and balance since there is not another bit or section of the model which balances out the oversized bit. The right arm looks weedy without any bulking out with Green Stuff work compaired against the Power Klaw arm.



This Nob is a good example of balance and zen. The use of a the correct size bit from the trukk model did not over power the model since the correct sized Power Klaw balances out the riot shield. The 'ard armor, which is made from production bitz is attached to areas where it can be physically attached to such as belts and other armor plates. This way the armor does not seem out of place or odd since it flows correctly.


This Looted Wagon utilizes all the concepts pointed out here. The right amount of extra armor, right amount of glyphs and the correct sizes weapon choices is used to produce a cheap, easy kitbash and conversion. Not one part of the model draws your eyes away from another part so viewing is seamless and easy on the eyes.




To be continued...

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2010/10/11 19:32:04


251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army

Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.

 
   
Made in cz
Stabbin' Skarboy






Czech Republic

Being a newbie interested in converting I really enjoyed this article - hope you will continue

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Swindon, Wiltshire, UK

I disagree with some of your points, an oversized part of a model being a focal point is not always a bad thing it just draws the eyes away from the head (the natural focal point).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Misery. Missouri. Who can tell the difference.

I will take a whole load of skill in GS and kit bashing which most gamers starting out do not have to make an oversized part not look stupid. Most people will find if they follow those three points it will steer them in the right direction. Once they got these down pat they should have the skill to be able to branch out to more complicated works.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/30 20:05:10


251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army

Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Swindon, Wiltshire, UK

Pipboy101 wrote:I will take a whole of skill in GS and kit bashing which most gamers starting out do not have to make an oversized part not look stupid. Most people will find if they flow those three points it will steer them in the right direction. Once they got these down pat they should have the skill to be able to branch out to more complicated works.


Modelling is an artform, adding new restrictions to an artform only serves to alienate and constrict new artists.

While i agree it takes skill to pull off oversized parts any modeller with a good eye can make it work, especially using triangle theory.
   
Made in us
Yellin' Yoof





I understand what he is saying. I lie it and will apply it to my kustom crations. I need to get pic of my looted wagons. I built the turrets out of spare metal Rhino armor and some 7/16"x3 inch long piece of steel tubing. Looks great and all in proportion to the vehicle. I do need to add some ram shackle armor on to it though. Any ways now that I rambled about my stuff, great guide and get some pics up to help back the argument please
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Las Vegas

I agree with this. Pipboy, you should look at (once compiled) making this into a full-blown article.

I know in my own Ork models, I strive for a balance of proper tactikal funcshun (being Blood Axes, after all) and Orkiness. I also usually don't like the more outrageous conversions as I am striving for a more subtle sophistication with my Orks. I know that may sound like an oxymoron and you may be right but what the heck, they're my Orks.

 
   
Made in us
Screamin' Stormboy






My advice is "don't over-ork it". I know that sounds bad, but hear me out.

Take a look at the actual Ork models GW and Forgeworld make- they look functional, and really pretty sturdy when it comes down to it. Things are solid and bolted together (maybe not watertight, but certainly not random "piles of junk"), glyphs and horns are a seasoning (not the main course!), and overall everything looks heavy and durable and mean, or at least intentional.

A lot of Ork conversions I see, while fun, really look more like wreckage than vehicles. And I get the impression that, if one were to get a time machine and take a GW battlewagon to 2007, people would criticize it for not looking junky enough!

This is just personal opinion- don't let me or anyone stop ya from making things look the way you like it.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Misery. Missouri. Who can tell the difference.

Updated with picture examples.

251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army

Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.

 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

corpsesarefun wrote:Modelling is an artform, adding new restrictions to an artform only serves to alienate and constrict new artists.
Restrictions? Are you kidding me? What we have here is a guide or tool that a novice can use to make asthetically pleasing conversions instead of the crapfests that pop up from time to time. This "zen" article is an attempt to help people with poor conversion skills produce better models. I hate to say it but a lot of Ork "creations" I've seen lately have been utter garbage. Hopefully some of those "artists" will see this article and end up making better conversions/kit bashes.

 
   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Breotan wrote:
corpsesarefun wrote:Modelling is an artform, adding new restrictions to an artform only serves to alienate and constrict new artists.
Restrictions? Are you kidding me? What we have here is a guide or tool that a novice can use to make asthetically pleasing conversions instead of the crapfests that pop up from time to time. This "zen" article is an attempt to help people with poor conversion skills produce better models. I hate to say it but a lot of Ork "creations" I've seen lately have been utter garbage. Hopefully some of those "artists" will see this article and end up making better conversions/kit bashes.

I agree. Too many people seem to think that "crude but functional" means "badly converted and non-functional".

Excellent work, Pipboy101.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/02 18:02:44


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob







Good article! The images really help to bring across your points.

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Orks is never beaten.  
   
Made in gb
Never-Miss Nightwing Pilot





In the Webway.

Yes very good, i liked how you could do most of it without GS, something i couldnt use to save my life.

"The stars themselves once lived and died at our command yet you still dare oppose our will. "-Farseer Mirehn Biellann

Armies at 'The Stand-still Point':

Cap'n Waaagggh's warband (Fantasy Orcs) 2250pts. Waaagghhh! in full flow... W-D-L=10-3-3

Hive Fleet Leviathan Strand 1500pts. W-D-L=7-1-2 Nom.

Eldar armies of various sizes W-D-L 26-6-3

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Misery. Missouri. Who can tell the difference.

Thanks. When I have some more photos that display these three rules I will post them up here.

251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army

Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.

 
   
Made in mx
Water-Caste Negotiator





This is HERESY!!!

All Orks should be asymetrical, noisy and out of proportion!

Waaagh! 
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker






Good points, not just on Orkiness but conversions in general. The bits I wanted to use for a Defiler scrach-build have really been teaching me the hard way about proportion. I imagine too many folks think orks = cartoons and have an even worse time of it.

I'm not like them, but I can pretend.

Observations on complex unit wound allocation: If you're feeling screwed, your opponent is probably doing it right. 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Minnesota

I like this article.

Ork constructions should look crude but solid. Not "lol orks so randum make garbige tankks".

The Emperor doesn't seem to do much for you but you sure are expected to be mutilated, suffer, and die to make him happy. And is he dead or what? If he's entombed that would mean he's dead as a doornail, right? So, how can he be happy about anything you do, or even give orders to anyone? Are you worshipping the dead now? Is that something you'd really want to do? Because it sounds freaking creepy to me.
 
   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





I like to imagine Ork constructions as appearing crude because they make absolutely no concession for user-friendliness, making them almost impossible for humans to use without injury or ork-like brute strength.
   
Made in us
Furious Raptor






Earth

Huh, its like you are looking at my models lol.

The DAY Aobr cane out i bought up 12 ork deffkoptas and i made them ALL into planes, and i did the same thing, (dont have all the cool bits on tho) with my leman russ.

1500 vs 1500 -40k
2500 vs 2500 -fantasy

 
   
Made in ca
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





In the chaotic wastes also known as Canada

Pipboy101 wrote:

This model utilizes the minimum amount of Ork Glyphs and the paint job to convey Orkiness and a good example of Zen

This Plane rocks!! where did you find it?

DOOMFART's Drunken Rugby Player FOR DOOMFART! FOR GES! FOR DAKKA!!!!
Kanluwen wrote:Cadian Blood and Soul Hunter?
They're like kidnapping someone, and forcefeeding them heroin until they're hooked.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Misery. Missouri. Who can tell the difference.

That is an AoBR Deff Kopta with TL Big Shoota done for a contest for Dakka a year and half ago. It is built with the rear section of a Tau Ion Cannon for the engine, the fenders from an old Ork War Trukk, One SM Bike Foot rest, Leman Russ Exhust Stacks under the fenders for exhust, the wings from a Revell Apache Helicopter model and 2 Heavy Stubbers. The parts are clear on the WIP photo. That is all that the model consists of. Like I said above it is that it follows all the rule I set forth. There is so much I could have done extra to the model but it would have thrown the model out of balance and zen. If you are in the Kansas City, MO area the model can be viewed at Tabletop Games and Hobbies in Overland Park, KS.

Here is a WIP photo


Right side


Left Side


Front On

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2009/12/07 04:57:46


251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army

Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.

 
   
Made in nl
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





The Netherlands

Great job man! Love the article! Now we need one for Fantasy!

Bits Blitz Designs - 3D printing a dark futuristic universe 
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores





Hampton, Virginia

Love the article, gave me plenty of ideas with that plane.

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Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest







I totally disagree; Orks are the antithesis of zen and balance.

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Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Yes, of course, because an Ork is exactly the sort of creature that's going to sit down and over-think something.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Manchester, New Hampshire

Owain wrote:I totally disagree; Orks are the antithesis of zen and balance.


But you totally missed the point. Yes, orks are the antithesis of zen and balance. But does that make human aesthetics in a game of table top wargaming any different?
You can still maintain a sense of ramshackle whilst still looking great. This article isn't here to restrict nor is it even competing against those qualities you describe.

@ corpsesarefun, you seem like an artist, or at least even lived and thought about something or other sometime. What classifies these as restrictions, and not guidelines. And what is wrong with restrictions geared towards the new people to the hobby?

I severely disagree with "restrictions are bad because they restrict" mantra you have. When I see artists at my school create compositions, they often come out glaringly flawed, because they never understood the rules or principals to begin with. Where as most often professionals already know the rules and restrictions, and choose to break them.

We avoid risks in life so we can make it safely to death. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Misery. Missouri. Who can tell the difference.

Will soon be updated with new examples.

251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army

Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.

 
   
Made in nz
Grovelin' Grot





Christchurch, New Zealand

Hit the nail right on the head!

You are completely right, i have seen models that just go overboard, like a boy with a big shoota in each hand, not right!

Follow these rules, any ork can look good! XD

Orkses never lose a battle!
If we win we win
If we dies we die fightin' so it dun count
If we runs for it we don't die neither
cos we can come back for annuver go, see!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Misery. Missouri. Who can tell the difference.

Here is two more examples of of my concepts in the article. First is an example of a Big Mek made from an AoBR Nob body using a AoBR Warboss Power Klaw. This is in violation of the one up rule since a Warboss bit was used on a model one step down. So this makes the model out of ratio and balance since there is not another bit or section of the model which balances out the oversized bit. The right arm looks weedy without any bulking out with Green Stuff work compaired against the Power Klaw arm.



This Nob is a good example of balance and zen. The use of a the correct size bit from the trukk model did not over power the model since the correct sized Power Klaw balances out the riot shield. The 'ard armor, which is made from production bitz is attached to areas where it can be physically attached to such as belts and other armor plates. This way the armor does not seem out of place or odd since it flows correctly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/01/03 18:07:24


251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army

Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.

 
   
Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Inboud...

Excellent points! I totally agree about balancing models- they should look innovative, but not overpowered by their gubbinz. Check out the Flakka Dakka Trukk in the Gallery for a good example!

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