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So, you start running a series of tourneys at the LFGS, when in the first one you realize that TFG has signed on. What do you do? TFG has showed up to every tourney in the past four months. People have complained about his unpainted army, his breaking of the rules, and his general attitude. The guy who is running the tourneys w/ you wants to boot the guy out on his ass.

What do you do?

Boot him out on his ass?

yep, agreed.

Blowgun, sharks with frigging laser beams? Call the FBI and tell them Al Qaeda has infiltrated your tourney? Call NOW, impersonate him, make sexist jokes and dare them to come to his house (on the date of the tourney) if they are Man enough?

Say thanks but no thanks?

Barring that-the rule is a fully painted army (normally thats not a rule to me but its a nice out). No army no playey-make sure everyone is aware.

Another tact. Sportmanship and painting make up 60% of all scoring. Make that very public days before the tourney. He'll run for the door.

I prefer the public, "Your mother never loved you", "you ruin everything you touch", "you're less welcome than Louis Anderson after eating 16 bags of Olestra potato chips" speech.

Usually the best solution is to just tell the person that he's (I'm assuming it's a dude) very disruptive and ruining everyone else's fun, and that he's not welcome at the tournaments any more. Tell him he's also free to start a competing blog where he can say what he wants without...

Oh, scratch that last sentence.

"Due to the incidents at the previous tournies you've attended, you're not welcome at this one. Go home."

Get him to sign up and pay up, then when he acts up, turf him out, awarding his opponent a free Massacre.

With any luck, he'll storm off in a huff never to return.

If you are playing in a local store it is up to the owner of the shop honestly. Otherwise doc him severly during tournies.

SPARKEYG wrote:So, you start running a series of tourneys at the LFGS, when in the first one you realize that TFG has signed on. What do you do? TFG has showed up to every tourney in the past four months. People have complained about his unpainted army, his breaking of the rules, and his general attitude. The guy who is running the tourneys w/ you wants to boot the guy out on his ass.

What do you do?

look its simple, just tell the guy before the tounament that he isnt welcome, and cannot partisapate in the tournament till he A: paints his army, and B: learns to play well with others. if he bitches, cite that as part of the reason AND DONT GET INTO A DISCUSSION. make it quick and cleaen, but above all before he shows up. id also ban him for the day from the tournament so he doesnt disturb other players.

Ketara wrote:Boot him out on his ass?

Bad call. Boot him out for what? Because he's an ass?

Pull him aside and tell him he's on notice. First infraction for cheating will result in ejection. Your covered your rear and he knows its zero tolerance.

Or depending on the turn out, make it a fully painted tourny.

If you are not an owner/employee of the FLGS this may cause some problems. Id bring it up with the manager first. If this guy is a good customer he may be upset with you for kicking his paying customers out of his store, but if he doesn't buy a damn thing and everything he owns if off of ebay, tell him to find somewhere else to play (but don't make the store owner do it, its your tourny).

have his mother perform a 93rd trimester abortion. that'd just about do it.

Just talk to him. If enough people are annoyed it shouldn't take much courage. Don't resort to tricks and discrimination, just be honest.

Frazzled wrote:
Barring that-the rule is a fully painted army (normally thats not a rule to me but its a nice out). No army no playey-make sure everyone is aware.

Too late, he already got that hint and finished his army.

Another tact. Sportmanship and painting make up 60% of all scoring.

Would be, but the rest of the circuit really want it to be more about the table than the soft scores. They're currently about 40%, and that's what most people want them to stay at.


I like to think that people can be redeemed, but enough is enough. You need to either have a judge who knows the rules hover at the table, and make sure he's not cheating, or boot him.

SPARKEYG wrote:The guy who is running the tourneys w/ you wants to boot the guy out on his ass.

What do you do?

You simply man up and tell him that he is not welcome to play at any of your events, based on his past behavior and complaints from other players.
____

@combatmedic: the FLGS has delegated such authority to the TO for the purpose of running the tournament. It is well within the TO's perogative to preemptively ban disruptive people from their event.

I like to think that people can be redeemed, but enough is enough. You need to either have a judge who knows the rules hover at the table, and make sure he's not cheating, or boot him.

Assuming this is related to the batreps with a certain TFG, that sounds like a big part of the problem. If the judges had known the rules it woulda gone a long way towards managing the situation. It sucks to have a judge hovering around for an entire tournament but I think that is the best way to handle it at this point. Then there's clear reasons to boot him because a TO has observed the behavior (and perhaps the douchery will be contained around an authority).

Personally, I don't see why people are harshing on unpainted armies. I go to school full time, I work, and I have a full time girlfriend; if I have time to paint, it's a few hours a week, and as an Ork player, I have 120 models in a 1750 army, and it takes me roughly 20 minutes to paint each one. That's approximately 40 hours of solid invested painting time; cut me some slack.

Anyway, I used to run Magic tournaments, and occasionally we'd get TFG into our tournaments. I'm surprised your players haven't taken care of the problem themselves; we had some really assertive people who would talk to anybody who was being disruptive. But I never had a problem talking to somebody and saying "Listen, knowing the rules is one of the requirements of joining the tournament. There's 20 people here and 10 games going on, I can't coach you through every turn; you need to learn how to play before you come back." I've also told people "Listen, these tournaments are about having fun, and you're being a real schmuck. Tone it down or you're gonna have to find somewhere else to be on Friday night."

People can be very reasonable if you find the right way to talk to them and explain your concerns. Just don't be accusatory, and I find the question "How do we solve this problem?" works magic.

You haven't said whether or not TFG has been previously warned about his shenanigans.
If not, then it might be that he really doesn't know what an ass he is and how little people REALLY think of him.

As a TO, you should have that conversation with him. Let him know you aren't going to give him any leeway, and follow through, if he acts up.

As for people complaining because he doesn't have an army painted... they should stop imposing their beliefs about it onto him. If the tournament doesn't have a "painted armies only" rule, then it shouldn't be held against him.
if the rule is implemented for the sole reason of keeping him out of the tourney, then EVERYONE whose army isn't 100% painted should be rejected on the spot. Otherwise, you're being hypocritical and you lose all credibility.

Eric

Newsflash: It isn't the TO's job to babysit a TFG with his own judge.

Just man up and don't let him play.

Hawkins and MagickalMemories are right.

1. Discuss the situation with the store owner and get his view.

2. Has the guy been warned before about his behaviour? Everyone deserves a warning, it's simply natural justice.

3. I agree about the rule on painted armies. I mean, I think armies should be painted, but if the competition rules don't say that, you can't impose it on one entrant.

If you haven't done 2, you need to do it this time and let the guy into the competition on probation.

If you have covered 1 and 2, you can and should tell the guy, privately and before he comes to the shop, that he is being excluded from this event because of his poor behaviour. As said, if he starts to argue, that is an example. Make him sit out for one event and let him come back for the next if he promises to behave properly.

1) Be absolutely fair in your dealings.
2) Make rules, make him follow the rules, and make everyone else follow the rules.
3) Warn him of things you feel are infractions in prior tournaments. Make sure he understands the rules. Give him a written copy of the rules.
4) Talk to the store owner about the problem. Make sure he will back you up. If he won't back you up, decide if you still want to run the tournaments.
5) Have a 'quiet man to man talk' with him. Explain everything he does that makes him an ass. Have a witness.
6) Make sure that none of the situation is your fault, and make sure you have done what you can to ease the problem.

After that, see what happens. If he violates the rules, or throws a fit, or whatever, don't take his fee, don't let him play. You don't have the right in this country to be a jerk.

1) Fully painted, three color armies have been a requirement from the beginning as Redbeard stated. It's a matter of community preference and not a judgement on those that do have the time or inclination to paint an army.

2) After the latest Tourney it was discussed with him the issues the TO's have with his behavior. We will see how it goes later this month.

3) I think we have been fair, if not highly accomidating to the players.

4) I'm not the guy in charge so I will back the buy in charge. I'm a soccer ref in my other hobby time and have very little patience for shenanigans or asshattery. The TO in change is a more relaxed guy and has given TFG four tries. Hopefully the next one is the last one.

I just wanted to make sure my opinions weren't too much of a hard-ass.

If you show up to a comp with a requirement of painted armies with an unpainted army, you don't get to play.

If he fails to meet very clearly spelt out rules then he should be excluded.

Cite complaints to him without making it clear who had complained and state this is the reason that he is excluded.

Another surefire way to catch TFG is to have a personal hygiene test at the door. Too much BO, you must go!

That's about all I've got on the matter, if you're really wanting a way to keep him out without too much fuss.

MagickalMemories wrote:You haven't said whether or not TFG has been previously warned about his shenanigans.
If not, then it might be that he really doesn't know what an ass he is and how little people REALLY think of him.

As a TO, you should have that conversation with him. Let him know you aren't going to give him any leeway, and follow through, if he acts up.

As for people complaining because he doesn't have an army painted... they should stop imposing their beliefs about it onto him. If the tournament doesn't have a "painted armies only" rule, then it shouldn't be held against him.
if the rule is implemented for the sole reason of keeping him out of the tourney, then EVERYONE whose army isn't 100% painted should be rejected on the spot. Otherwise, you're being hypocritical and you lose all credibility.

Eric

The main complaint I've heard about unpainted armies (aside from aesthetics) is that all those little plastic or pewter guys all look really similar from six feet away, making confusion and misunderstandings entirely too easy.

Well, without reading everyone else comments, let me add my own opinion. The unpainted army should be let go. Maybe he is just too busy to paint (I can relate...). The rules breaking and attitude should be dealt with.

As the organizer, take the time to talk to him in private and explained to him the consensus of the group. Explain to him that there are rules and he has broken them. Site examples and tell him he will need to know his game to truly play. Also, talk to the other players and ask their patience and assitance with said TFG. Talk to the guy about his attitude. This is actual grounds for disqualification IMO. Explain to him the situation and the atmosphere you are thrying to promote in your tournament. If he decides not to follow, then disqualify him for the rest of the tournament and site the ground why. He is welcome to participate further if he made a few adjustments by learning the rules and adjusting his attitude.

EDIT: About the unpainted figures and not being able to identify them, the players that made these mitakes should have confirmed them with said TFG. If they mistake the identity of the figure, it is their own fault for not taking a good look at the figure before they make their moves. Of course it is easier to identify the figures if they were painted but they are not. They should go the extra mile and take a closer look at the figures before assuming that they are something else. They need to adjust rather than demand a painted army to play against.

You are kind & considerate.

I have played this person before. Maybe it is because I don't let to much stuff get by, but you really need to call him on stuff when it happens. To many players will let things slide at the time and then go back after the game to complain about things. Stop it right then.

As a former Adepticon tourney judge, for the Gladiator no less, I would personally stand next to the table and watch the game. After enough transgressions, which he has already reached, I would make it my business to call him out on everything he does wrong during the game. I wouldn't wait until the opponent asked me, I would make the correction right there and insist both players play the right way.

Things tend to change after that. You will have to do the due diligence to have him removed. You will not be able to ban him before hand. Each player deserves a new chance for each tournament. Some players can have a shorter leash, but they always deserve a new chance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will add that as the tourney organizer it is your responsibility to make sure everyone has a good time. Somethimes this involves having to watch this guys game. If you impart your will on the game, he will either change or have such a bad time he will not show up again, but you can't ban him beforehand. Not at your venue, unless he does something really bad.

Darth I completely respect your stance and what you said is refreshing. You are a role model for me.

One thing I would like to point out is that catching cheaters out is a bit like cops and robbers. Robbers will always find new ways to cheat that catch you offguard. When you are caught offguard it's hard to call them on it immediately because you are in a state of shock. Let's face facts, there are players that have no shame whatsoever and it's harder to call them out at a major tourney because you probably never played them before.

From what you have said I like the philosophy that Adepticon has enough knowledgable judges present that they can ride shotgun on people making big waves. It's a good approach to running a tournament.

G

DarthDiggler wrote:I have played this person before. Maybe it is because I don't let to much stuff get by, but you really need to call him on stuff when it happens. To many players will let things slide at the time and then go back after the game to complain about things. Stop it right then.

This is easier said than done. In the game I played against him, two things stood out that I don't know how you stop it right then.

1) I called him on the claim that Eldrad's warlocks are not a retinue. However, he'd already convinced the organizers that they were earlier in the day. No offense to SparkeyG or Zero_Cool, but they're not rules mavens, and they've both admitted as such. I wasn't going to be the guy who argued against the judge's ruling. They checked it out after I told them they ruled the wrong way earlier, and they realized that after the game. You play as best as you can during the game at that point.

2) During an assault, he attempted to ignore the rules for where his counter-charges had to go (to models that didn't yet have a base-to-base enemy). I attempted to call him on this at the time, but he'd already moved the models. When I explained the rules, and showed him the passage in the rulebook that explained that he had to move to models that didn't have a partner yet, he claimed that they didn't have the range to get there (they did, easily). It ended up being four attacks that didn't matter (bloodcrushers eat wraithguard in assault regardless), so I let that drop, because short of taking a picture of the board before he moved his models in the first place, I've got no proof. I told him, in future, not to move models before we both agreed where they needed to go - I guess that's something.

Numerous times I had to correct his rules mistakes, but I know enough to catch most of it right there. I play Eldar, so I'm familiar with it, and I still missed a couple at the time (using Embolden to re-roll a successful psychic test because it was double-1s and would be perils). Skivus, who also posted his game against our friend, doesn't know eldar, and just accepted what he was told. No one wants to be the player who double-checks their opponent's every move, although at some point I guess you have to just keep asking to verify their codex. I caught a ton of slips - and even catching them, it detracts from the game when you have to keep correcting an opponent who should know better.


And it's the players who don't know everything real well who suffer the most. They not only have a lousy game, but they have to fight through the cheating too. I disagree that someone deserves a new chance every time. After enough repeat transgressions, it's time to just cut your losses.