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A few interesting things from the book that no one has mentioned:

1.) The Slittas are not impressive with their WS 2, 3 Attack, first round Killing Blows. However, they are characters, which means that the enemy will have to allocate attacks against them. While a lot of units would be slaughtering goblins wholesale, they are forced to spend a round killing individual characters, which gives the goblin unit a chance to win combat against certain enemies. It's not great, but they're pretty cheap. Also, against riders on Monsters, you could literally challenge 4 straight turns in a row with your goblin unit. 1 for the boss, 3 from the Slittas.

2.) As someone who used Arrer Boyz in the second round of 'Ardboyz last year, I don't begrudge a 1 point increase. T4 and choppas makes them far more capable in close combat than Crossbowmen. Crossbowmen have to kill the enemy with fire. Arrers just kill enough that they become more easily digestible.

3.) I think someone posted otherwise, but Choppas are for ALL weapons, including magic weapons. It gives a a reason to take spears on orcs, and is a backdoor buff to Boar Boyz (in addition to their drop in points).

4.) Black Orcs went from mediocre-poor to above average. They dropped a point, their great weapons now get the benefit from Choppas, and they get immune to psychology. Their Boss upgrade went down by a bit also.

5.) Wyvern dropped by 40 points. I really liked the Wyvern in 8th, because it has 5 wounds, S6, and thunderstomp, along with the buffs to the General because of Large Target. Now at 40 points less its even better.

6.) They really want to encourage regular Orc characters, who are 35 points less than their Black Orc counterparts for both Lords and Heroes. They both come with armor now, though, and the Black Orcs get Immune to Psychology. The Choppas rule helps the Black Orcs characters a little more, considering a Borc Warboss can choose to make 5 S6 attacks or 4 S8 attacks the first turn.

7.) Gigantic Spider looks like a great mount for a solo harassing Goblin hero. For 75 points you can get the pair. It adds 1 to the goblin's Wounds, + 2 armor like a boar, 3 S4 poisoned attacks, Stomp, and all the great movement a building assault capabilities of the Giant Spider. With a few mundane points and a Dragon Helm, you can get a 2+ save, T4, 3 wound unit that puts out 6 attacks, a Stomp, and can go anywhere.

8.) I need to figure out the best mage hunters in the list, because the crutch of the Spirit Totem + Staff of Sneaky Stealin' is gone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A couple other things:

9.) The Fast Cavalry rule now is attached to mounts (Giant Wolf and Giant Spider). So I believe this means a character on such a mount will have that rule, allowing Goblin Heroes to add some punch to fast cav units (I think).

10.) Wolf Riders do not lose Fast Cav if they have LA and Shields, so Orcs can have a 4+ save on their outflankers.

Thanks for that- the point on Wolf Riders makes me happy. I've always liked them as a unit, now I think I'll pick up another box of them.

So the Goblin Assassins are called "Slittas"?

Awesome!

Sorry, no, they're "Nasty Skulker". I was remembering incorrectly.

Aw man, I like Slittas better.

Biophysical wrote:
....

7.) Gigantic Spider looks like a great mount for a solo harassing Goblin hero. For 75 points you can get the pair. It adds 1 to the goblin's Wounds, + 2 armor like a boar, 3 S4 poisoned attacks, Stomp, and all the great movement a building assault capabilities of the Giant Spider. With a few mundane points and a Dragon Helm, you can get a 2+ save, T4, 3 wound unit that puts out 6 attacks, a Stomp, and can go anywhere.


...



9.) The Fast Cavalry rule now is attached to mounts (Giant Wolf and Giant Spider). So I believe this means a character on such a mount will have that rule, allowing Goblin Heroes to add some punch to fast cav units (I think).

Does this mean that you can have either a Gigantic Spider or a Giant Spider as a mount?

The Gigantic Spider (and Hero) would not count as Fast Cavalry, and would be better suited to going off on its own (since it gets no protection from Spider Riders) and the Giant Spider (and Hero) would be on a cavalry base and could join up with Spider Riders?

Oh, that would be lovely.

Da Butcha, you are correct. Gigantic Spider is Monstrous Cavalry, Giant Spider is Cavalry (subset: Fast), if I am understanding the rules correctly.

Biophysical wrote:A few interesting things from the book that no one has mentioned:

1.) The Slittas are not impressive with their WS 2, 3 Attack, first round Killing Blows. However, they are characters, which means that the enemy will have to allocate attacks against them. While a lot of units would be slaughtering goblins wholesale, they are forced to spend a round killing individual characters, which gives the goblin unit a chance to win combat against certain enemies. It's not great, but they're pretty cheap. Also, against riders on Monsters, you could literally challenge 4 straight turns in a row with your goblin unit. 1 for the boss, 3 from the Slittas.

Low WS is a good thing on skulkers because if a hit is not a KB it's often better to reroll the attack than take the S3 hit.

Gobbos have 2 spells that can give skulkers rerolls to hit. The little waaagh signature spell gives rerolls to hit and wound if the unit is attacked from the flank or rear. The itching spell will drop both movement and initiative by D6 (minimum 1), so if the I stat drops to 1 the gobbos I2 ASF gives rerolls to hit.

Good point.

Sure it requires those 2 spells to go through but that unit looks like it could do not too badly with those buffs/hexes helping them out.

Killing Blow is on the to-wound roll, not the to-hit roll. You would be correct if they had poison instead of KB.

Ooops my bad, yea it is to wound.

The signature spell still works because it's rerolls to hit and to wound.

WS2 still isn't the end of the world. With rerolls it still hits 75% of the time against WS4 and 5/9 times against WS5+

Skulkers are still pretty dangerous if their unit gets a flank charge.

Biophysical wrote:1.) The Slittas are not impressive with their WS 2, 3 Attack, first round Killing Blows. However, they are characters, which means that the enemy will have to allocate attacks against them.

How many wounds are they? I cannot recall if they're one or two. Either way, dedicating attacks against them isn't particularly bad: It's not like DElf assassin that gets a Ward Save or high WS to defend it. They're WS2, T3, and - to my recollection - only a 6+ Save.

Main advantage I'd say they have, really, is ASF for the one-in-a-million (well, actually about one-in-six) chance to take a Combat Hero / Lord's challenge in a Goblin Unit (if they declare one) and leave the Warboss to actually do something.

Biophysical wrote:While a lot of units would be slaughtering goblins wholesale, they are forced to spend a round killing individual characters, which gives the goblin unit a chance to win combat against certain enemies. It's not great, but they're pretty cheap. Also, against riders on Monsters, you could literally challenge 4 straight turns in a row with your goblin unit. 1 for the boss, 3 from the Slittas.

This doesn't really work, though. At most, all you have in the front rank is three command and three slittaz. If you take absolutely zero command, there's still a 40mm frontage for the minimum size that can be struck and take multiple wounds.

Slittaz are a classic GW case of "Decent models, poor rules".

Biophysical wrote:3.) I think someone posted otherwise, but Choppas are for ALL weapons, including magic weapons. It gives a a reason to take spears on orcs, and is a backdoor buff to Boar Boyz (in addition to their drop in points).

Magic Weapons outside the Orc Book, even. A Giant Blade had an example of being +4 Strength the First Round. Not that you'd take one, in that case, instead of the 20pt less +2 strength sword that - for the most part - is perfectly sufficient (if you take a magic weapon at all: S6 Warbosses aren't exactly bad for killing RnF).

Biophysical wrote:4.) Black Orcs went from mediocre-poor to above average. They dropped a point, their great weapons now get the benefit from Choppas, and they get immune to psychology. Their Boss upgrade went down by a bit also.

Three points, I believe, for the boss upgrade.

Biophysical wrote:5.) Wyvern dropped by 40 points. I really liked the Wyvern in 8th, because it has 5 wounds, S6, and thunderstomp, along with the buffs to the General because of Large Target. Now at 40 points less its even better.

The Wyvern is not a good "Dragon", especially with the removal of being able to negate ranks and that it has no Breath Weapon. I mean, for 160pts it's decent, but it should be telling that GW considers the Wyvern to be worth less than a Giant, by almost 20%.

Only real reason I see for Wyvern these days is messing up a Dwarf Gunline (provided they were foolish enough to not take an Anvil).

Biophysical wrote:8.) I need to figure out the best mage hunters in the list, because the crutch of the Spirit Totem + Staff of Sneaky Stealin' is gone.

Savage Orcs with Obsidian-carrying Bosses are about your best bet for anti-magic on a unit. Other than that, you're best with just a Dispel Scroll and having a high-level Shaman behind you.

Biophysical wrote:9.) The Fast Cavalry rule now is attached to mounts (Giant Wolf and Giant Spider). So I believe this means a character on such a mount will have that rule, allowing Goblin Heroes to add some punch to fast cav units (I think).

Correct.

Agreed. It almost seems like the signature spell was built to buff Skulkers. And Wolf Riders. I have a really old goblin shaman on a wolf conversion that I used to run several editions ago. If the fast cav rules on a Giant Wolf indeed allow characters to be fast cav, I was looking at the options of running him in or near a wolf rider unit. Think about a 12 strong wolf rider unit under the influence of the sig spell. 13 attacks, S4, 6 Attacks, S3, all armor piercing, re-rolling hits and wounds.

It's about damn time they re-did the Savage Orcs. The spider is great, and unlike any other large monsters in Warhammer range that I can think of. The shaman rules.

1.) The Nasty Skulkers have just one wound a piece, so Chaos Knights and their ilk would probably be overkilling if they targeted the Skulkers directly. It's not an issue of the enemy only being able to attack Skulkers, its that they have to make a decision of killing moderately effective skulkers or killing more, but less effective gobbos. One nets you combat resolution (which probably doesn't matter for a while against gobbos), one makes the unit a bit less powerful as they grind it out in CC. I reiterate, they're nothing to write home about, but they give you some options, and they're cheap. They won't benefit every unit, but there are times that they will offer something.

4.) I believe the BOrc boss is 8 points less, it's now the same as a regular Orc Boss upgrade. It's not much, more of a moral victory.

5.) I don't think of the Wyvern as even a "half-good Dragon", but it doesn't have to be. It is a force multiplier for the Warboss. Large target means you get his leadership 18" away from the wyvern base (great for 2500+ games), 5 wounds and a 4+ save means it will take more than a few random shots to bring it down. S6 thunderstomp means its still doing a bunch of damage to infantry, and considering it is being ridden by a S5 T5 Warboss means the rider is much less of a pushover than human or elf counterparts. It's cheap enough that it doesn't have to rampage all through the enemy to be worth it (it's only 136 points more than a War Boar).

8.) I'll have to take another look at the Obsidian Blade. There's a lot of magic weapons that need re-evaluating in the wake of the awesome new Choppas rule. I keep coming back to Fencer's Blades for one.

Er, unless they're only in base-to-base with a Skulker, they can attack both. You can split attacks, so long as you allocate them before any rolls "To Hit" or "To Wound" have been made by you already. They also are going to be hit and wounded on the exact same thing. The worst-case scenario is that you allocate two attacks against a Skulker, both hit, and both wound. That's about it.

I'd assume the Champion is not eight points less, six points less top if you include the one point model drop. Eight points less would mean they're less points than an Orc Boyz unit champion upgrade (which, if it is the case, will make me a sad man as this means a Night Goblin Champion costs the same to upgrade as a BOrc Champion, let alone that they already cost altogether as much as a BOrc with a shield).

"Only 136 points more than a War Boar" doesn't really appeal to me, but then most mounted things don't appeal to me this edition unless it's rushing a gunline or hitting someone in the flank (this one due to the new Sneaky Stabbin' bonus).

Obsidian Amulet, Lodestone, and so-on for Savage Orcs can mean 5+, 4+, or even 3+ Ward Saves on a unit (which, combined with the Arcane item, means you can get two SOrc units with a 3+ Ward) versus magic direct damage. Though yes, the Choppa rule does make several magic items more interesting to consider.

I thought you couldnt combine ward saves?

Gar-ang - MR adds to any ward save you have

so those amulets and stuff mentiond by Minsc only gives MR?

Again, I'll reiterate that Skulker's aren't great, they're just not bad for their points. I think they have a place in certain goblin units. They are probably only competitive if you have a goblin shaman, because the default spell upgrades their chances of killing blow quite a bit. Th at spell helps just about everybody, though.

I was thinking that Borc Bosses used to be 23, I don't have my book on me right now, though. Either way, Borc Bosses are the same price as regular Orc bosses in the new book.

The Obsidian line of Talismans gives MR 1, 2, or 3, a fact I forgot when I thought Minsc was talking about the Obsidian Blade, which allows no armor saves. While those give defense against direct damage stuff, I feel like that's the least important magic in this addition. Hexes and Buffs are the things I really tend to care about. A lot of times I can get the job done with a few less guys, but when all of my guys are suddenly worse than the unit I had them matched against, units break.

Wonder if you could kit bash the big stabba onto with the savage orc boar boyz so the guy who hold it would be on boars.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&pIndex=0&aId=14300105a&multiPageMode=true&start=1

some stuff about orc and gobbo art and a download of the new cover. I like the Dainton dwarf hold one best of all.

I can confirm that the new orc boys box has 10 models. Held it in my hands tonight. Price is either 24.75 or 29.00 (prices were not attached yet).

Are you talking about Orc Boyz or Savage Orc Boyz?
If its Orc Boyz then thats just straight slowed, and if its the Savage Orc Boyz its actually been up for advanced order for a few weeks so not much news there!

orc boys. Savage orcs are just as expected. I had the two boxes side by side because I didn't believe it, either.

Hmmm thats odd, I went to my local GW just a bit erlier to pick up my advanced orders and didn't notice the Orcs Boyz being any different... That really sucks if it is the case, though it makes the Battalion a bit more of a bargain I suppose.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=8700012a

some sample army lists.

March 4, Getting started with Orcs & Goblins, Unleashing the Waaagh!, etc.:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=14300010a

The basic Orc Warrior box has quietly been repackaged at $29 for 10 models, replacing the 19 models for $35 set. This kind of thing happens all the time, even when the sprue is not recut or revised in any way. Remember Imperial Guardsmen? They were 20 models for $35 till the IG got their new Codex, then it was 10 models for $22, after last June it went to $24.75. Snap up the remaining $35 boxes of 19 Orc models while you can!

BrassScorpion wrote:The basic Orc Warrior box has quietly been repackaged at $29 for 10 models, replacing the 19 models for $35 set. This kind of thing happens all the time, even when the sprue is not recut or revised in any way. Remember Imperial Guardsmen? They were 20 models for $35 till the IG got their new Codex, then it was 10 models for $22, after last June it went to $24.75. Snap up the remaining $35 boxes of 19 Orc models while you can!

Sigh...

Do you think they realize that Mantic and Wargames Factory just put out Orcs of their own? Granted they're not GW orcs but with a price hike like this it must be getting hard to justify buying more GW stuff.