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That way I will be the only one with the All Ape/Jokaero 40K Army!

Hell no, say hi to my 18-monkeys-in-RVs army.

Am even going to have banana objective counters.

Hmm, post number 777.
HA! This is a sign that me starting the chapter 666 is not only +1 but +1, +1 aaand +1.

MagickalMemories wrote:Fluff is malleable. If advances with time.

If it didn't (warning: AD&D reference), then Raistlin would still be captive of Takhisis and King Azoun would have never died.
Fluff changes so that it can advance. Otherwise, it just becomes stagnant and disinteresting.

I suddenly like you a lot more. That is all; carry on my good man.

Neconilis wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:Fluff is malleable. If advances with time.

If it didn't (warning: AD&D reference), then Raistlin would still be captive of Takhisis and King Azoun would have never died.
Fluff changes so that it can advance. Otherwise, it just becomes stagnant and disinteresting.

I suddenly like you a lot more. That is all; carry on my good man.

Yes, however not all advances are good choices. Sometimes people try to fix somethign that isn't broken and the fluff as a whole suffers for it...

I'm pretty sure most of the people unhappy with the Jokaero's model are people who didn't know what they were supposed to look like. It's an orange space ape. That's exactly what Jokaero are.

Now as far as the rules are concerned, I did think it was a little "off" to have them so combat-capable, on top of the fact that nobody is supposed to be able to control (or capture) a Jokaero. I think it would have been better if they had simply added a lot of different effects to the unit (like the weapon mod table but even more extreme) and had some sort of risk-factor so that under certain circumstances the Jokaero would create a device that caused them to 'escape', effectively removing them from the game. Kinda like mini-fateweavers perhaps.

MagickalMemories wrote:
Fluff is malleable. If advances with time.

...

Fluff changes so that it can advance. Otherwise, it just becomes stagnant and disinteresting.

Except that 40K fluff doesn't advance and is stagnant. It changes - oh how does it change - but it does not change forward, it changes laterally (or in some cases backwards). The fluff isn't malleable, it is arbitrary, and can, will and has been changed at a whim.

40K has always retained it's minutes to midnight style of being 999.M41 and it will stay at 999.M41 forever more. And, because of that, anything new has to be shoe-horned (some might call it retconned) into the existing story. This is what's happening with all these new units in the recent Codices, and it is what will continue to happen.

If you want to see fluff advancing, you look at BattleTech. If you want to see fluff staying right where it is getting more and more bloated as things are inserted into the time line, you look at 40K.

10 pages, and no pics posted for us work-burdened. Shameful.

What's interesting is that some of the novels do actually take place after that "Minute to Midnight" deadline.

'Cadian Blood' off the top of my head takes place 'a few months' after the conclusion of the 13th Black Crusade--which means it's in M42.

Jaon wrote:10 pages, and no pics posted for us work-burdened. Shameful.

Ummm... They're on the first page, Brass Scorpion's post, about half way down.

Thread reading fail.

Platuan4th wrote:

Jaon wrote:10 pages, and no pics posted for us work-burdened. Shameful.

Ummm... They're on the first page, Brass Scorpion's post, about half way down.

Thread reading fail.

Brass Scorpion's post is just hotlinking to the GW site. May be blocked for Jaon.

Kanluwen wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Jaon wrote:10 pages, and no pics posted for us work-burdened. Shameful.

Ummm... They're on the first page, Brass Scorpion's post, about half way down.

Thread reading fail.

Brass Scorpion's post is just hotlinking to the GW site. May be blocked for Jaon.

So it is.

My bad for not checking the image source.

I just checked it myself, only reason I know

Xca|iber wrote:I'm pretty sure most of the people unhappy with the Jokaero's model are people who didn't know what they were supposed to look like. It's an orange space ape. That's exactly what Jokaero are.

Karmans are space apes...

So to be helpful:

Karmans bothered me same as the Jokaero.

So, there's that...

10 pages, and no pics posted for us work-burdened. Shameful.

Work? What an ugly word...

warboss wrote: i'm waiting on calling the ragnarok for when gwar comes back to YMDC and starts answering every question by quoting how the fluff tells you to play it.

Damn, wb.
I laughed so hard.
That's probably the funniest thing I've read on this site in a month, at least!

+1 for warboss!


Eric

CT GAMER wrote:

Xca|iber wrote:I'm pretty sure most of the people unhappy with the Jokaero's model are people who didn't know what they were supposed to look like. It's an orange space ape. That's exactly what Jokaero are.

Karmans are space apes...

What's a Karman?

Google is your friend and mine, if you use it, which I did. Karman is an AT-43 force.

What saddens me most about putting an orangatang into 40k is that people are going to buy the model. This will only encourage Matt Ward to continue his destructive swath through the 40k setting.

Breotan wrote:What saddens me most about putting an orangatang into 40k is that people are going to buy the model. This will only encourage Matt Ward to continue his destructive swath through the 40k setting.

Except that Matt Ward isn't responsible for the Jokaero. As far as I'm aware, he started there way after 1st ed.

He's responsible* for bringing it back.





*Possibly not directly. It's not as if other members of the Dev team don't have input on the books that are being made, and the bean-counters upstairs certainly have a say in what gets made (it's the reason we have 'Generic Daemons' in the so-called 'Chaos' Marine Codex).

H.B.M.C. wrote:In that case, yes, it would have been better to get an all-inclusive Inquisition Codex. Even the 'Wave' releases are pretty obvious then - Wave 1, GKs (Special Chars, Termies, Power Armour, Dreadknight. Wave 2, Sisters (Special Chars, Sisters Box, Serephim Box, plastic Exorcist). Wave 3, Deathwatch (Special Chars, DW Termies, DW Power Armour, [something else]).

Hahaha, come on HBMC, listen to yourself. If GW released a whole range of models only on a delayed wave, you would be up in arms throwing nail bombs at GW's corporate offices.

I think the concept of Wave Releases is actually a good one - ensuring a good 2 years worth of staggered releases for a particular army type rather than a giant release dump and then nothing for 5 years.

My issue with Wave Releases is much the same as all the issues I have with GW's litany of great concepts - the terrible execution of said concepts. With Wave Releases as they are now we never know what's coming out or when (or even if!). Look at the Tyranids - there are several huge gaps in that Codex as far as units go, and no clue as to when or even if they will be filled. That is a problem.

If there was a firm idea (or, dare I say it, a promise) that all these units would get models released within 2 years of the Codex's release, then it would be fine. As it stands I'll take one release every 5 years and then nothing in the years between over staggered releases that come seemingly at random and huge gaps in the model line. I played through 2nd Ed, where it was like that all the time. It's not fun to do it again.


And as for this specific idea, the only people throwing nail-bombs would be Sisters players. As we all know there isn't a larger group of 40K players with such a self-absorbed sense of entitlement than Sisters players.

MagickalMemories wrote:
Fluff is malleable. If advances with time.

...

Fluff changes so that it can advance. Otherwise, it just becomes stagnant and disinteresting.

Unless of course the fluff doesn't advance. There is a difference between going "Oh yes, Adept marcus over here figured out a way to control the Jokaero. Praise the Omnissiah!" and "And for no discernable reason... Space Monkeys!"

It also, unless a very good reason is given, does NOT explain why the hell the Inquisition uses xenotech. Sorry. Heresy. Unless a good reason is given. But without a good reason given, it IS unfluffy and silly.

Incidentally mine will be purple.

Nagashek wrote:But without a good reason given, it IS unfluffy and silly.

This is the point you're missing:

It's not unfluffy...

...


...


...


... any more. Now it's perfectly fluffy because of ARBITRARY FLUFF CHANGE.



You're right about the second part though - it is silly.

It should have been a Gyrinx instead.

And as for this specific idea, the only people throwing nail-bombs would be Sisters players. As we all know there isn't a larger group of 40K players with such a self-absorbed sense of entitlement than Sisters players.

It all really depends on what week of the month it happens to be...

With all of the interest in Jokero I thought that I would mention the plight of the orangutans, who are an endangered species. They once lived across southern Asia, but now their only remaining habitats are on the islands of Borneo and Sumatra. Deforestation and poaching have drastically reduced their numbers in the past few decades. Scientists estimate that there are only about 7,000 Sumatran orangutans left in the wild. They are hunted for their meat and other body parts which are believed to have medicinal properties. Infants are sought after as pets. Poachers shoot the eyes of the mothers with large caliber air rifles, and then slaughter the helpless animals so they can capture their babies. It is truly tragic what people have done to one of our closest relatives in the animal kingdom.

spaceelf wrote:With all of the interest in Jokero I thought that I would mention the plight of the orangutans, who are an endangered species. They once lived across southern Asia, but now their only remaining habitats are on the islands of Borneo and Sumatra. Deforestation and poaching have drastically reduced their numbers in the past few decades. Scientists estimate that there are only about 7,000 Sumatran orangutans left in the wild. They are hunted for their meat and other body parts which are believed to have medicinal properties. Infants are sought after as pets. Poachers shoot the eyes of the mothers with large caliber air rifles, and then slaughter the helpless animals so they can capture their babies. It is truly tragic what people have done to one of our closest relatives in the animal kingdom.

I can feel little remorse for a species who, in a mere 40,000 years hence, will have evolved to the point that they are able to turn bottle caps and bits of string into lascannons and personal teleporter arrays.

H.B.M.C. wrote:He's responsible* for bringing it back.





*Possibly not directly. It's not as if other members of the Dev team don't have input on the books that are being made, and the bean-counters upstairs certainly have a say in what gets made (it's the reason we have 'Generic Daemons' in the so-called 'Chaos' Marine Codex).

You know the funniest part?

The bean-counters aren't actually why we have 'generic Daemons'.

It's Alessio Cavatore. His stated 'design goal' was to move Chaos Space Marines away from being 'Legion heavy' to 'Traitor heavy'.

*shakes fist at Cavatore*