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I'm almost tempted to start a re-mailing business for GW minis, but I think the additional cost would offset the savings.

I've been thinking about that. Games Workshop can, in theory, stop retailers who get their product direct from them from reselling to the Southern Hemisphere based on clauses in their contracts. I managed an independent retailer for a couple of years, I handled the paperwork. It's of extremely dubious legality, and to be perfectly honest, if someone actually had the money to fight it in the court system, it'd probably go down, but most independent retailers don't, so there you have it. (The wife's a lawyer, and if you're married to one or are one, you know how much legalese one picks up in such a relationship-what's more, I helped her study for the bar. Did some poking around on LexisNexis out of morbid curiosity too. Not claiming to be up on this stuff, but I'd call myself probably a bit more than the average bear on this. A little bit.)

HOWEVER, there are other source streams in the United States for Games Workshop product, the first coming to mind is Alliance Games. The discount isn't as good-GW gives independent stockists 45% off, Alliance can only do 40% off due to, well, GW's buggery-but if you're reselling in bulk to a giant horde of angry Kiwis, Aussies, and Latin Americans, I would think the volume would offset the loss in that sense. It might not be *quite* as cheap, but at the same time, there wouldn't be a damn thing GW could actually *do* about it.

Just a thought.

Btw my question was not rhetorical i need a place to play malifaux.

Sorry, noobish question, what's a Black Box? :S

Black boxes are what GW sends out to their stores for their staff to assemble in the way of new models, rulebooks, etc. It's basically a marketing kit for upcoming releases, so people can see firsthand what the new stuff looks like, get excited about it, and be sure they want to order it.

Thrax wrote:Black boxes are what GW sends out to their stores for their staff to assemble in the way of new models, rulebooks, etc. It's basically a marketing kit for upcoming releases, so people can see firsthand what the new stuff looks like, get excited about it, and be sure they want to order it.

Ahh right. In that case, I'm assuming they'll be stopped too, we can't have anyone actually knowing beforehand about the release, now, can we?

Goddard wrote:Some GW executive has seriously overestimated the power of surprise.

"What? GW still exists???? Never heard anything from them for years, thought they went bancrupt!"
Called "play-dead-marketing" in the business

agnosto wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:I foresee a hostile takeover in GW's future. It's disgustingly ripe for it, and if I had the cash, I'd pounce.

There wouldn't be any profit in it.

You could easily raise sales by 50% within a year or two with standard marketing.
But Hasbro never was a company to make efficient use of its aquired games systems.

KingCracker wrote:This is beyond dumb. Dont they realize that if they let the hobbyists know a month ahead of time, that they would more then likely get even BETTER sales numbers on release dates? It would allow people to actually save up money a decent time in advance. I dont fething get them at all. Its honestly like they want to just let the company die so they can sell off whats left

I think that specific strategy chosen by GW , is targeting compulsive buyers.
The smaller the time frame compulsive buyers have to choose between one of two armies recently released / comming soon advance order,
the more chance the said buyer will purchase one current army , cave in , and start the 2nd new one via compulsive buys.

I am not doubting these rumors, just find it hard to believe that they will only have pre-orders ready a week in advance. How will GW get stock to their independents in time? Oh, wait, maybe that is the plan. Also, GW might be needing more "secrecy" because of upcoming releases (like the rumored 6th 40k), especially if the LotR license is making some demands this time (can't have GW spoil that BLANK is somehow in "The Hobbit" because news of pre-orders come out a month before the movies ).

BaronIveagh wrote:

agnosto wrote:
I actually thought about it a bit and thought that there is 1 company that could do it, if they wanted to; Wizards of the Coast.

You mean Hasbro. WotC doesn't exist anymore.

Warhammer & 40k have almost no synergy with WotC's properties (or other Hasbro brands). I doubt Hasbro would want to deal with LotR licensing either. Just for some perspective, GW has been selling about double or more than double WotC has for several years now thanks to the LotR license and WotC's licensed card market pretty much drying up (which is what Hasbro mostly bought WotC for). WotC still exists, it is a wholly owned subsidiary within Hasbro, that way they can easily spin it off when it finally stops looking good on their books (well, at least the various IPs can be spun off if needs be). For another perspective, GW is "right", they have no competition, none of the other miniature companies (at least ones they would actually compete with) are making anywhere near the money GW is. The only ones that come close are the diverse companies like FFG (i.e miniatures are only a fraction of their products) or the ones that are owned by a much bigger company like WotC and Mongoose (and these still are diverse companies).

Mr Hyena wrote:The new DE was a top-quality line. The new Tomb Kings look utterly amazing. Doesn't seem to be doing much however; otherwise GW wouldn't be implementing these measures would they?

Maybe they've finally priced the models beyond the reach of most potential customers.

Truth is, GW just don't like the amazing internet gak storm they created for themselves with their recent moves regarding resin, huge price hikes, cutting off Australia, C&Ding Raging Heroes, and pissing on everyone's heads in their Facebook page.

The news about the product release news puts the cherry on the icing on the cake for most people. In effect it is GW taking their ball and going home in a huff.

It's an astonishing series of really bad PR moves they have made in such a short space of time.

Byte wrote:
Fair enough.

I've played GW since 1995 and their approach has never changed. A successful albeit unpopular approach.

Really? Because I've played GW since 1995, and I seem to remember:

White Dwarf with articles written by non-employees, articles about scratch-building terrain, regular articles with new rules, and free minis, mini-games, and cardstock models.

White Dwarf with a MONTHLY rules clarification/explanation/change article.

Free box of plastic minis (Catachans one year for me) with a White Dwarf subscription

Seminars at Games Day with information about stuff that was MONTHS away, and not the stuff that is currently going on sale.

Third party internet sales with shopping carts.

Bitz service where you could order ANY bit they produced.

I could go on, and I'm not saying that all of those ideas were sustainable, but I simply CANNOT see how you can claim that GW's approach has never changed in the last 15 years.

temprus wrote:IWarhammer & 40k have almost no synergy with WotC's properties (or other Hasbro brands). I doubt Hasbro would want to deal with LotR licensing either. Just for some perspective, GW has been selling about double or more than double WotC has for several years now thanks to the LotR license and WotC's licensed card market pretty much drying up (which is what Hasbro mostly bought WotC for). WotC still exists, it is a wholly owned subsidiary within Hasbro, that way they can easily spin it off when it finally stops looking good on their books (well, at least the various IPs can be spun off if needs be). For another perspective, GW is "right", they have no competition, none of the other miniature companies (at least ones they would actually compete with) are making anywhere near the money GW is. The only ones that come close are the diverse companies like FFG (i.e miniatures are only a fraction of their products) or the ones that are owned by a much bigger company like WotC and Mongoose (and these still are diverse companies).

Well, one you're forgetting that, no, Hasbro acquired WotC for two reasons, one was the CC thing, the other was they owned Dungeons & Dragons. (Which can have synergy with just about anything nerd.)

Two, the big toy companies have been looking to diversify and a TT war-game would be right up their alley.

Kanluwen wrote:

Goddard wrote:Some GW executive has seriously overestimated the power of surprise.

Or underestimated.

SURPRISE! Next week, we get Codex: Chaos Overpowered!

You're surprised, right guys?

Nah, I could see that5 happening. But I'd be floored by Codex: Chaos Fun & Interesting.

I think the point he was reaching for is that since (x) time, GW's approach has been fairly negative in terms of how it views the 'veterans'...

Maybe?

Alpharius wrote:I think the point he was reaching for is that since (x) time, GW's approach has been fairly negative in terms of how it views the 'veterans'...

Maybe?

Replace 'veterans' with 'customers in general' and you have the right idea.

so pre-ordering can be killed. wow GW never cease to amaze me with the amount of tbagging theyre doing to us customers.

its like theyre not even taking the business seriously anymore.... hell i think 12-15 year olds could probably run it better the way things are going with GW...

This is actually great news for all of us hobbyists who have decided to give up on GW. No more previews of new shiny things to distract us. How can I be tempted to work dark Eldar into my painting schedule when I don't know about them in time to save up?

Guildsman wrote:This is actually great news for all of us hobbyists who have decided to give up on GW. No more previews of new shiny things to distract us. How can I be tempted to work dark Eldar into my painting schedule when I don't know about them in time to save up?

True! Though personally, I've been converting other minis to 40k.

Da Butcha wrote:

Byte wrote:
Fair enough.

I've played GW since 1995 and their approach has never changed. A successful albeit unpopular approach.

Really? Because I've played GW since 1995, and I seem to remember:

White Dwarf with articles written by non-employees, articles about scratch-building terrain, regular articles with new rules, and free minis, mini-games, and cardstock models.

White Dwarf with a MONTHLY rules clarification/explanation/change article.

Free box of plastic minis (Catachans one year for me) with a White Dwarf subscription

Seminars at Games Day with information about stuff that was MONTHS away, and not the stuff that is currently going on sale.

Third party internet sales with shopping carts.

Bitz service where you could order ANY bit they produced.

I could go on, and I'm not saying that all of those ideas were sustainable, but I simply CANNOT see how you can claim that GW's approach has never changed in the last 15 years.

Shrewd business approach with little consideration to its customer base. Why did you underline "I've" in your post are you trying to piss farther? No reason for that. Its ok that others have played for a long time. I miss the Chapter approved program(articles you reference) as well, but it wasn't the best. Rules morphed as people would claim their brother's neighbor's uncle's son had a WD that made some rule change.

And BTW it wasn't all puppy dog tails back than, the Chapter Approved stores and independent retailers were forced to order monthly minimums as well as minimal new release swag. They were bullies than and now. Don't get my wrong, I dig the system and the models. Ive just come to terms.

all this completely arse about face approach to marketing has me thinking of GoG for some reason with their 'we're shutting down' marketing stunt they did last year...

what they've effectively done by announcing all this is to have all the hobby's, both on the consumer and producer level, glued to the news coming out of GW...

feels like someone's going to jump out and yell surprise! all that stupidity, we were only kidding... all the while, sales have spiked because of the fear and panic.

LunaHound wrote:

KingCracker wrote:This is beyond dumb. Dont they realize that if they let the hobbyists know a month ahead of time, that they would more then likely get even BETTER sales numbers on release dates? It would allow people to actually save up money a decent time in advance. I dont fething get them at all. Its honestly like they want to just let the company die so they can sell off whats left

I think that specific strategy chosen by GW , is targeting compulsive buyers.
The smaller the time frame compulsive buyers have to choose between one of two armies recently released / comming soon advance order,
the more chance the said buyer will purchase one current army , cave in , and start the 2nd new one via compulsive buys.

This may be true, but that really only works when their product is cheap enough that people don't have to plan their purchases. Back in the day my friends and I used to impulsively buy from GW all the time. 10 years ago when say, an Eldrad Uthran blister cost less than half what it does now (same sculpt), it was easy to just walk into my FLGS store on a whim and buy whatever looked interesting at the time. Or even just buy something just because you think the bits will be good for some future conversion. We didn't even always have the exact conversion in mind, we just knew the bits looked cool

It's like I've always said, GW products sell with momentum. The more a customer is able to buy for the cost, the more excited they will get about the modelling possibilities and the more they will be willing to spend. With prices as high as they have been the last few years (even before the coming price rise), I didn't just buy fewer models for the same price, I spent less money altogether because there was just no excitement in knowing I was getting ripped off. And of course nowadays, I spend zero dollars on GW.

I'm pretty certain GW's taken this approach from the movie/video games industry (probly their biggest competitors for the target audience) I mean you never see trailers or anything for films and games do you? /sarcasm

seriously tho the news and rumours were what always get/got me excited about upcoming releases and all the discussions about what might or might not be changed/included. i brought my DE mainly cos i was so hyped about the new stuff. most the time i dont even go into the store lol

Nope, I've never seen trailers for games before. Or screenshots. Or developer videos on YouTube talking about some of the game's features. Or gameplay videos showing you how the game plays in real time and not just pretty cut scenes. Or detailed reviews by magazines who got advance copies and played them.

Complete, total, 100% black-out is the only way to stay in business. If anything ever got out, people would IMMEDIATELY lose interest in the product and would never buy it, whereas if you announce it as a SURPRISE, you get rich because everyone will have to buy it then! Because...it's new! And it just came out! That's all the reason anyone would ever need!

Pfft. Obviously you don't spend much time on youtube or in gaming stores. Half the time you know years in advance of a game coming out that it's coming out and people get all excited and they can't wait. A year or so out they hear about it which is enough to keep them interested to the latest impending sequel, then as it draws nearer there's more and more hype and more and more tasters and more and more excitement until the gamer can't wait to get their hands on it want it MUST HAVE IT NOOOOW and line up at stupid o'clock just to get a copy.

Give a week's notice? Huh? What? Something's being released? Oh, okay. Hmm..not for my army, don't really have time to go look. Oh well.

I just wanted to make sure it was obvious that my post was sarcasm...you guys knew that right? I mean of course I'd know about all that because that's what's kept me interested in Deus Ex: Human Revolution so far.

The new "policy" kicked in this week didn't it? The new TK stuff was only officially announced a week before release (although admittedly, some of it was shown in the army book).

It may just be that I'm a bit hacked off with GW at the moment, or it may be that bow armed Ushabti are truly useless, or it may be that I am underwhelmed by the finecast stuff I've seen so far...

...but for the first time in ages, I didn't feel an urge to go and buy a new release for the army I'm collecting

Sidstyler, I read your post a couple times trying to see the /sarcasm but didn't so thought you were serious...I kinda maybe thought you were actually serious. Soz

Flashman wrote:The new "policy" kicked in this week didn't it? The new TK stuff was only officially announced a week before release (although admittedly, some of it was shown in the army book).

It may just be that I'm a bit hacked off with GW at the moment, or it may be that bow armed Ushabti are truly useless, or it may be that I am underwhelmed by the finecast stuff I've seen so far...

...but for the first time in ages, I didn't feel an urge to go and buy a new release for the army I'm collecting

Oh oh, better watch that man... really Im not joking here... I started feeling just like that when I was left with one year waiting for the last nid codex... you will not believe me when I say that it got so bad that when the Dex was finally released I was happy but didnt got anything new, I was like, its ok but I will get it later, I have time... Today I still dont have the new nid plastics nor the fantasy gobbos spiders and new stuff etc etc... when you lose the interest you will replace it for other things outhere and getting back to be exited with GW stuff is harder and harder.

Today I buy GW when I'm in a good mood and if after I got my mini fix elsewere I still have some leftover money.

The waiting for the last dex with little news was to long for me, after enduring all nid dexes the last one was a bit to much for me.

I think the move to keep things even more silent will have the oposite effect in regaining my interest and I bet pretty much everyone, even the hardcore fans or the teens will have their attention directed to much more agressive marketing tactics ( even in this industry).

Wow this move is stupid.

If this is the sort of stupidity you gotta have to work in GW this explains why I never got a job with them.

Someone get the marshmellows to roast over GW's burning corpse.

Byte wrote:
Shrewd business approach with little consideration to its customer base. Why did you underline "I've" in your post are you trying to piss farther? No reason for that. Its ok that others have played for a long time. I miss the Chapter approved program(articles you reference) as well, but it wasn't the best. Rules morphed as people would claim their brother's neighbor's uncle's son had a WD that made some rule change.

And BTW it wasn't all puppy dog tails back than, the Chapter Approved stores and independent retailers were forced to order monthly minimums as well as minimal new release swag. They were bullies than and now. Don't get my wrong, I dig the system and the models. Ive just come to terms.

I'm not claiming that GW was perfect back then*, but again, I don't see the "little consideration to the customer base" that you see as a trend all along. I thought that list of things would have illustrated it, as most of them are things that were popular with the customer base, but things that were eliminated by GW. If GW eliminated them, and they have a "shrewd business approach", then presumably they eliminated them for a good business reason. That would mean that GW used to do things which weren't shrewd for business, but were popular with customers.

To call out one example, they used to give out a plastic unit box free with a WD subscription. Now the subscription allows you to buy a model. The second is clearly more sensible from a business approach, while the hobbyist would clearly prefer free swag.

Sorry about the bolded "I've". It was intended to serve as a rhetorical shorthand for "I have also played GW since 1995 and my recollections lead me to a different conclusion". It wasn't meant to insult.

I can see that GW has always made business decisions that might have allowed it to survive where other game systems have faltered. I just don't see the current decision-making at the company as being nearly as 'fan-friendly' as it was in the past.


*And some of the problems, like Chapter Approved, could now be more easily solved, given the ubiquity of web-capable smartphone browsers. GW now provides a FAQ and Rule Updates for every army on their web site, so "being current" with the rules kind of requires internet access.