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London GW to Hampton Village is 188 km (116 Mi) and Vanc West to Marysville is about the same (181-185 km). Hope that helps.

Travis

It does. Thank you for the figures.

The distance between the Sydney city and Newcastle stores is 160km+/-. Google Maps says it's a 2 and a quarter hour journey.

So 20 more km and you save what % in price (one fuel costs for the journey are factored in)?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

keezus wrote:Here you go: Not sure if the Vancouver West one is still in operation. Discounts the up to +/- hours that you will wait at the border crossing. Depending on when you cross, YMMV.

GW London ON, Canada and GW Hampton Village MI, USA are 2 hours 10 mintues apart. (I've done this crossing many times - if you hit it at the right time, you'll be waiting about 10 minutes each way.)
GW Vancouver West BC, Canada and the Marysville Store WA, USA are 2 hours 17 minutes apart.

Thanks for the answer. That's very interesting actually. But a follow-up:

You don't happen to know the rough distances in either miles or km from one another? Even their addresses so I can plug them into Google Maps will do. I want to see if it's the same distance between, say, the Sydney store and the Newcastle store, which are in the same state here, and would be about that time apart if you drove (no boarder crossing required obviously!).

I no longer have reasons to order from GW Canada anymore ( or any Canada retailer ) due to the price difference..

Also if im going to be slapped with such high tax anyways, i rather order from USA. Even if i get caught by customs, it still should be cheaper BY ALOT.

So is the problem Canadian Taxes or/as well as Comparative prices differences?

Sorta lost track?

Take the UK prices, don't deduct their VAT, add 25-50%, that's the price you see on the sticker. Take it up to the till, add another 12% taxes (5% taxes in one province). In the US, sales taxes varies by state but the most common seems to be about 6%.

Examples:

Space Marine Tactical Squad.
UK Final Price: £23

Canada Final Price: £31.78
Premium: 38%

Australia Final Price: £40.78
Premium: 77%

US Final Price: £24.74 (using 6% sales tax as it's the most common rate)
Premium: 7.5%

EDIT: Adding a "Finecast" model to round out the comparison:

Hive Tyrant
UK Price: £36

Canada Final Price: £49.18
Premium: 36.6%

Australia Final Price: £63.15
Premium: 75.4%

US Final Price: £38.36
Premium: 6.6%

The reason Wayland & Maelstom have been able to operate so successfully with cheap international shipping is that they don't have to charge or remit their included VAT when selling to the rest of the world. Neither would GW if they supplied retailers directly from their UK operations. So you end up taking that tactical squad, selling it for £23 and having £4.6 pounds to cover shipping it to any part of the world.

GW's "Screw Canada" pricing is not nearly as bad as their "Screw Australia" pricing but is especially strange because they don't have the excuse of shipping around the world. The stuff is made on the same continent and ships across the largest trade border in the world. Both pricing policies are especially bad though, because if a company can ship an individual product and have the shipping charges be subsidized by the VAT, there's really no excuse to say shipping to Australia or Canada causes the higher prices.

Nice job, Calvin.
However, Mr. Wells seems to understimate the current mood of his customers. The poll underpins this.

wuestenfux wrote:Nice job, Calvin.
However, Mr. Wells seems to understimate the current mood of his customers. The poll underpins this.

Current mood of the internet.) Different from the entire GW customer base. Many of the angry people on Dakka have stated over and over that they don't/won't buy new GW products. Hard to count them as a customer at that point. And the internet is always angry and looking for reason to be angry.

And I'm not saying that the GW higher ups have their finger on the pulse, theirs always been problems between those in the Ivory Towers and those in the trenches. But you also can't judge the entire customer base by the people being angry on forums.

When Jervis says he will speak to anyone regarding their concerns, he is serious about that. I see him most weeks in Bugmans having coffee with experienced customers like yourself to learn what your suggestions are.

I like this bit

I am at warhammer world every week for at least 8 hours 4 of those hours normally spent in the bar with a book.

Never have I seen Jervis sat in there having a coffee with a customer, in fact never have I seen him in there. I will start to keep an eye out for him so I can address my concerns to him and tell him that white dwarf is terrible in person rather than just saying it on the internet.

Compliments to both you and Mr. Wells for writing eloquent and polite letters. They got a little testy in a few parts, but you both did a good job conveying your points. Also, while dakka does have a good population, I don't believe that one online community constitutes a good survey base. I would have attempted to include warseer, or perhaps gotten BoLS in on it. Then again, you'd have problems with people voting multiple times if they were members of multiple communities, but I'm getting too into detail. Nevermind my scientific tendencies.

Simo429 wrote:

When Jervis says he will speak to anyone regarding their concerns, he is serious about that. I see him most weeks in Bugmans having coffee with experienced customers like yourself to learn what your suggestions are.

I like this bit

I am at warhammer world every week for at least 8 hours 4 of those hours normally spent in the bar with a book.

Never have I seen Jervis sat in there having a coffee with a customer, in fact never have I seen him in there. I will start to keep an eye out for him so I can address my concerns to him and tell him that white dwarf is terrible in person rather than just saying it on the internet.

That's funny. I guess that Jervis will show up sometimes, have a coffee and then disappear. Having a talk with a visitor or customer? I guess not.

I figured that was bs the minute I read it.

Sidstyler wrote:I figured that was bs the minute I read it.

But does he tell something like this?

wuestenfux wrote:Nice job, Calvin.
However, Mr. Wells seems to understimate the current mood of his customers. The poll underpins this.

You mean the mood of an insignificant subsection of his customers... Don't overestimate the vocal minority... Especially when many of those 'vocal' are not even GW customers and claim not to purchase from the evil empire in the first place. Why should GW listen to non-customers?

+1 to that brother.

nkelsch wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Nice job, Calvin.
However, Mr. Wells seems to understimate the current mood of his customers. The poll underpins this.

You mean the mood of an insignificant subsection of his customers... Don't overestimate the vocal minority... Especially when many of those 'vocal' are not even GW customers and claim not to purchase from the evil empire in the first place. Why should GW listen to non-customers?

Well, Mr. Wells has listened to this insignificant subsection ... and he was trying to tell that Jervis will listen to an insignificant portion of players visiting Bugman's bar?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After all, Mr. Wells is not stupid. He will know that Dakka is a rather large community compared with other forums.

wuestenfux wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Nice job, Calvin.
However, Mr. Wells seems to understimate the current mood of his customers. The poll underpins this.

You mean the mood of an insignificant subsection of his customers... Don't overestimate the vocal minority... Especially when many of those 'vocal' are not even GW customers and claim not to purchase from the evil empire in the first place. Why should GW listen to non-customers?

Well, Mr. Wells has listened to this insignificant subsection ... and he was trying to tell that Jervis will listen to an insignificant portion of players visiting Bugman's bar?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After all, Mr. Wells is not stupid. He will know that Dakka is a rather large community compared with other forums.

But he may not care about Dakka at all, so don't overestimate the importance of online communities.)

You can only throw crap at someone so long before they don't care about what you say, and don't listen. Years ago, GW quit listening to a lot of what's on the forums because of the constant negativity. The vocal minority of "I will never buy GW and haven't in years!" tends to drown out the rest. Signal to BS ratio is rather low on forums, and currently hovering about 0 for Dakka. No one from GW is going to want to sift through thread after thread of GW bashing. At some point back we became irrelevant.

You write a well thought out letter. You get one back.
You throw crap on forums, you get ignored.

mikhaila wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
After all, Mr. Wells is not stupid. He will know that Dakka is a rather large community compared with other forums.

But he may not care about Dakka at all, so don't overestimate the importance of online communities.)

And Dakka is far from united which means while he may be able to change policies to please some of Dakka he will never be able to please all of Dakka. It isn't like someone can say the full purchasing power of dakka is behind <insert policy change here> because it isn't. Online communities being a vocal minority, even within them is an even *MORE insignificant smaller minority with an even louder voice...

If you really boil it down, about 90% of the posts in these multiple threads are from the same 10 people. I don't believe they represent an accurate cross-section of Dakka, the online community or the GW customerbase as a whole. Sure it is fun to discuss and complain on the internet, but I am not sure GW should change policy based on the opinion of a dozen or so people on a single forum.

It's true- the letter in the OP was well thought out and got a thorough reply.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the reply, although thorough, was completely unsatisfactory... and doesn't acknowledge any lack on GW's part on any of the points the OP raised.

I know they might not be willing to do this in letter form, but hopefully they are catching the hint that they'd do better to roll out major changes with a bit more... finesse... than they have been.

I actually think almost all of the recent changes may have been necessary in one form or another, and some have even been good things for the hobby (I think Finecast will be in the long run, for example). But the way they went about it was certainly a PR nightmare, and made what was otherwise a number of defensible decisions (switching away from a more expensive material to a cheaper one) into gakstorms.

So that's my take... they could make some minor adjustments in the way they view/interact/release information to customers, and make a world of difference, without changing a single corporate decision............

nkelsch wrote:You mean the mood of an insignificant subsection of his customers... Don't overestimate the vocal minority... Especially when many of those 'vocal' are not even GW customers and claim not to purchase from the evil empire in the first place. Why should GW listen to non-customers?

Because the vocal 'minority' discourages other people from buying into the game/purchasing more models.

skyth wrote:

nkelsch wrote:You mean the mood of an insignificant subsection of his customers... Don't overestimate the vocal minority... Especially when many of those 'vocal' are not even GW customers and claim not to purchase from the evil empire in the first place. Why should GW listen to non-customers?

Because the vocal 'minority' discourages other people from buying into the game/purchasing more models.

Should the meat company strive to please vegetarians even though they do not buy thier product? Should they strive to listen to the feedback of a minority fringe of these non-customers out of fear they may say bad things to the core customerbase that will run them off from buying the product?

Maybe if the vocal minority is Oprah... Internet non-customers on dakka are not Oprah... GW should judge thier response to these people's criticism accordly.

12 people posting a fit in an online community many gamers have never heard of is not something GW should sit up and take notice. Regional sales drops and direct feedback from actual customers are.

mikhaila wrote:

You can only throw crap at someone so long before they don't care about what you say, and don't listen. Years ago, GW quit listening to a lot of what's on the forums because of the constant negativity. The vocal minority of "I will never buy GW and haven't in years!" tends to drown out the rest. Signal to BS ratio is rather low on forums, and currently hovering about 0 for Dakka. No one from GW is going to want to sift through thread after thread of GW bashing. At some point back we became irrelevant.

There has been constant negativity of late, but go back even a year or so and it was a great deal different. In fact, why GW actually closed down their own forums was a mystery to me, considering most of the atmosphere on their was overwhelmingly positive, in the form of new players asking about rules, armies (trying to get into the game) or just writing 'wow awesome!' about some new release.

I would argue that when GW have done something right, the majority of posts have tended towards the positive. The hubbub surrounding the Battle for Skull pass, Black Reach contents etc. and especially the Dark Eldar was overwhelmingly positive. I think it was a kind of reverse situation to the one we have now, with any 'dissenters' ('Ultramarines again?!?' etc.) generally been shot down. I agree that a kind of atmosphere, or zeitgeist, seems to swing on a pendulum from one side to the other depending on what has happened recently. But to say that public reaction to something is exclusively negative is to be rather selective about commenting on things from recent years.

The deluge of bad news recently; alienating the RoW customers, the quality control issues with Finecast, new secrecy rules and the price increase are a lot of things which individually could have (rightly or wrongly) put peoples backs up. In combination, they have produced a torrent of negativity that goes far beyond anything else I can remember, and I've been part of the forum community going back to the late 90's and the days of the relic forums.

I think a few strong releases, getting the QC ironed out with Finecast, and the annexation of the former colonies from the internet (joke), and the pedulum will swing back a little the other way. Certainly, I think for the most part fans really love the company and only need the smallest of olive branches to come back on side. In my case, even though I may have raised an eyebrow in the past at price rises and the switch to 1-man stores, for the most part I have been content. Now, the latest enactments make me feel like GW has got it's large and hairy out and swung in front of my face. To put it less crudely, and more specifically, I can no longer order GW product at a sane price, and even if I could the QC of finecast means that a long distance internet order is going to involve an element of risk.

So that's it really, I hate all the negativity around here, but I think it is completely justifiable for the most part. When people stop complaining, it means that they will have given up on GW entirely, and that will be a sad day indeed.

mikhaila wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Nice job, Calvin.
However, Mr. Wells seems to understimate the current mood of his customers. The poll underpins this.

Current mood of the internet.) Different from the entire GW customer base. Many of the angry people on Dakka have stated over and over that they don't/won't buy new GW products. Hard to count them as a customer at that point. And the internet is always angry and looking for reason to be angry.

And I'm not saying that the GW higher ups have their finger on the pulse, theirs always been problems between those in the Ivory Towers and those in the trenches. But you also can't judge the entire customer base by the people being angry on forums.

Maybe in your region but not in mine. You can only report on your sphere of influence as well as anyone else in theirs.

The Internet brings sources of data together. Data is a key to marketing research. Companies do data mine the internet for sources of information. I know that as a fact.

You own a comic book/game store and it seems that you are doing well in your sphere of influence.

But that is your sphere of influence, not mine nor anyone else.

Of course the data expressed by yourself and others, will be noted by companies and people who search these sites for information.

Now slightly off the subject. It is good that you are well to open up another site. I congratulate you on that since it seems that you have a good mix on services you provide for your customer base.

mikhaila wrote:

Current mood of the internet.) Different from the entire GW customer base. Many of the angry people on Dakka have stated over and over that they don't/won't buy new GW products. Hard to count them as a customer at that point. And the internet is always angry and looking for reason to be angry.

And I'm not saying that the GW higher ups have their finger on the pulse, theirs always been problems between those in the Ivory Towers and those in the trenches. But you also can't judge the entire customer base by the people being angry on forums.

You can, however, judge it by GW's finacial reports. Unit sales are still decreasing overall, have been for years in a row. So it doesnt matter what the internet forums say, nor how well your store is doing(as it is doing very well by your own admission). Their reports are why folks say so. When your profit mostly comes from cost savings, currency conversions, some licensing, prince increases.....not your actual core product sales, well it says alot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

skyth wrote:

nkelsch wrote:You mean the mood of an insignificant subsection of his customers... Don't overestimate the vocal minority... Especially when many of those 'vocal' are not even GW customers and claim not to purchase from the evil empire in the first place. Why should GW listen to non-customers?

Because the vocal 'minority' discourages other people from buying into the game/purchasing more models.

Alot of GW's early success, wasnt really GW store, nor their push. Alot of it was word of mouth, getting friends in, some indy stores(but nothing like the numbers today of stores). Alot of those same folks that helped build up GW, will also push folks instead of into GW, towards something else, or at least discourage them from GW.

Is it alot? *shrug* cant tell you. But it has had some effect./

Mark Wells tries to justify the price increase using overhead and materials, but all that doesn't mean anything if customers decides its not worth their time and money to invest in an expensive hobby.

The word of mouth approach fails. I've yet to persuade any of my friends into playing tabletop Warhammer. The reason is all the same. Cost of starting an army, even at 1000 points, scares them away. They prefer sticking to Relic Entertainment's Dawn of War II computer game.

Lets look at the motives in play?

The vocal minority are the ones NOT happy with GW plc direction , and think GWplc might fail.
The vocal minority WANT GW plc to SUCEED.
They are invested in GW plc in some way,even if it is just happy memories.
The customers that have no interest say NOTHING.
They just buy or leave.

Currently MrWells and MR Kirby are getting paid well .
They are motivated to do as little as possible , to maintain the status quo.(Not the band! )

So listening to the customers that actualy care about the future of GWplc and its games and minatures.Means listening to people that want action to improve the long term prospects of GW plc.
This means doing more than Kirby and Wells need to to get paid.

So Mr Wells listens to the 'silent majority'.
That say nothing when they buy , and nothing when they leave...
And he can do as little as he needs to to keep getting paid.

Who cares more about GW ?
Passionate hobbists who love the products and IP.

Or the man just taking the money out of GWplc while there is money to take out of GW plc...

Just a thought.
.

The vocal minority are the ones NOT happy with GW plc direction , and think GWplc might fail.
The vocal minority WANT GW plc to SUCEED.

Well, minus the people who claim to want GW to burn down,
and the ones who claim to never buy their miniatures,
and the ones who don't like their rules and claim to never play the games.
and the people who love drama on the internet for entertainment itself.
and the ones who care enough to advocate changes that might kill GW outright.

Not all the vocal minority are speaking with one voice.) If you somehow got Mr. Kirby's ear, who do we elect to speak for the group?

ME, jk, i dont know, but the people that say Mr. kirby does as little as possible to keep the company where it is and not do any better are obviously misinformed. Much of CEO's pay is based on how well a company does, he gets stock rewards and bonuses, all of which are approved by their board of directors, so if the board sees a bad year, or dont think hes doing as well as he could, guess whos getting paid less. I am not trying to justify Mr. Kirby's actions or that of GW, but the people saying that he is doing as little as possible to keep things where they are are misinformed, because CEO's tend to like money, and the more successful the company is, the more the CEO gets

/rant

Simo429 wrote:

When Jervis says he will speak to anyone regarding their concerns, he is serious about that. I see him most weeks in Bugmans having coffee with experienced customers like yourself to learn what your suggestions are.

I like this bit

I am at warhammer world every week for at least 8 hours 4 of those hours normally spent in the bar with a book.

Never have I seen Jervis sat in there having a coffee with a customer, in fact never have I seen him in there. I will start to keep an eye out for him so I can address my concerns to him and tell him that white dwarf is terrible in person rather than just saying it on the internet.

I've sat there and had a chat and a drink for about an hour or so on at least 2 occasions. If you've been in contact with him/then he will, if he can, indeed meet and talk with you.

notprop wrote:So is the problem Canadian Taxes or/as well as Comparative prices differences?

Sorta lost track?

Canadian tax is 5% on the total declared value. Its no big deal, because it's still cheaper in the long run. The kick in the teeth is the postal service's arbitrar yhandling fee of $5 that makes me want to throttle the processing agent.

mikhaila wrote:
Current mood of the internet.) Different from the entire GW customer base. Many of the angry people on Dakka have stated over and over that they don't/won't buy new GW products. Hard to count them as a customer at that point. And the internet is always angry and looking for reason to be angry.

And I'm not saying that the GW higher ups have their finger on the pulse, theirs always been problems between those in the Ivory Towers and those in the trenches. But you also can't judge the entire customer base by the people being angry on forums.

To simply shrug off the current outrage as the typical angry forum members is simplistic and in my opinion, wrong.


Myself as an example. I've defended GW's decisions many times (Check my sig) and I've purchased a great deal of GW product over the past several years---and did up until the last month or so. My group spends similar amounts of money and have supported GW as long (if not longer). As a group, we've decided to go on a year long GW embargo and give other companies our money---and this was not born simply of the price increase. I believe there is a palpable shift in the customer mood---even if you aren't observing it in your store.