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If this is true, I'll just relish stomping bluefolk even more!

Such massive bollocks, all this actually is: Create ad revenue.

There about 7 pages of people just whining about the FLUFF changing etc..........


Last time I checked this is a Table Top game where you roll dice and remove little plastic models.

GW NEED to do something to make the ACTUAL game of 40k FUN. After all games are supposed to be FUN. In its current state 40K is a massive grinding waste of space. The game itself is boring and unbalanced. WHFB is a MUCH more FUN game to play. Wether you liked 7th Edition or not, 8E is still miles more FUN to play than 5E 40k.

GW Need to inject a big dose of FUN into its main product.

And there we are. Godwin's Law, Draigo's Law, and the "Little Armymen Corrolary." We're done here.

Concur...this sounds like nothing more than possible white dwarf content. There is no mention of game mechanics.

Lol for those buying the fluffless battle of marines vs. X? Box you won't even get the fluff in the abridged book. So big deal. Keep reading black library stuff for fluff not the 1/2 page blurbs of off the cuff "new" fluff which encourages players to "have fun" and play however you like.

I would be concerned about the throwback to 2nd edition if that meant something. Unless modifiers are brought back there is nothing really of value in that ruleset which harmonizes/synergises with 5th. God knows I'd like to get rid of complex units and wound allocation. Just bores me bit at this point is a necessary evil.

Milisim wrote:There about 7 pages of people just whining about the FLUFF changing etc..........


Last time I checked this is a Table Top game where you roll dice and remove little plastic models.

GW NEED to do something to make the ACTUAL game of 40k FUN. After all games are supposed to be FUN. In its current state 40K is a massive grinding waste of space. The game itself is boring and unbalanced. WHFB is a MUCH more FUN game to play. Wether you liked 7th Edition or not, 8E is still miles more FUN to play than 5E 40k.

GW Need to inject a big dose of FUN into its main product.

Then go play something else, I like my Imperium totalitarian, xenophobic and superstitious. Not "side with the aliens let's let the design team drop acid and disregard the core elements of the game's universe".

I still find the rules of 40k plenty fun, but the universe changing like this drek indicates is a massive disappointment. A good narrative is the reason I feel in my opinion that so many play 40k. This is why I play.

The tau thing is heresy.

I am terrified about moving towards 2nd edition.

I hope allies don't come back.

Those are my thoughts.

What's REALLY hilarious is that the people that buy the minis and play the game seem to be, by and large, NOT the ones whining in this thread. It's the people who have not or will not (supposedly) buy anything further from GW. So, why should GW give a damn what you guys think?

Hell, this whole thing nerfs the gak out of one of my favorite builds and I'm all for it. (for various reasons).

Isn't all this fluff nonsense just lifted from the "Dornian Heresy" over at B&C?

The last thing I want as a Tau player is any connection with SM...which is why I play them.

GW doesn't answer to anyone not a majority shareholder so you are correct in your assumption.

I respect your opinion, though I do play 40k, I've been playing for 14 years now. I own two 4,000 point armies and before that I owned several 2,000 point armies.

I love the game, I'm not adverse to change but of what I can attest to is changes that rewrite the core elements of what made the setting interesting. Necrons were the largest example of this, but after seeing what I have here it would appear this is just the natural progression of things.

I don't consider myself entitled to an explanation, I'm sure the design team aren't bad guys by any means but I'm sure they've been given an ultimatum. It just sucks, 40k used to be darkly humorous, a parable to british sentiments under margaret thatcher with science fiction.

Now, it's so... Hard to decribe, almost scrubbed down for children.

As far as rules go, I feel that in this is merely an attempt to address veterans like ourselves and coax us back in through nostalgia goggles. I do not welcome a step backwards to second edition. I was lucky enough to not be a part of that era (playing) but witnessing the amount of silliness comprising that edition I would rather see an innovation on the 5th ed. ruleset.

Dravenguild wrote:It just sucks, 40k used to be darkly humorous, a parable to british sentiments under margaret thatcher with science fiction.

Now, it's so... Hard to decribe, almost scrubbed down for children.

Pretty much nailed it.

I find Fantasy Flight's 40k RPG products to be a lot more like the old school vibe than GW's.

Then go play something else, I like my Imperium totalitarian, xenophobic and superstitious. Not "side with the aliens let's let the design team drop acid and disregard the core elements of the game's universe".

Play black templar than, because team ups with xeno's happens all the time between tau, eldar, and hell, even orks! (As mercs)

There are very few factions that completely Eschew Xeno's contact.

This 'rumour' sounds like more garbage then most of the rumours i've seen.

And it seems from this thread that this sentiment is shared. >.>

>tau-marines
BOLLOCKS.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Then go play something else, I like my Imperium totalitarian, xenophobic and superstitious. Not "side with the aliens let's let the design team drop acid and disregard the core elements of the game's universe".

Play black templar than, because team ups with xeno's happens all the time between tau, eldar, and hell, even orks! (As mercs)

There are very few factions that completely Eschew Xeno's contact.

You have a point, I elaborate that these examples were "necessary evils" and I'm not trying to dissuade your stance on the matter. They did indeed happen, the difference being the choice of words and context and that the writers (especially Ward) are injecting more and more "pro" xeno sentiment, treating it as something to embrace (Gehenna campaign) and sympathize (Ultras letting tau evacuate dying world).

That's much worse then hiring blood axes to kill other orks or helping eldar to later screw them over later. A friend once mused to me that a lot of this is very much a parable to the immigration problems the UK is dealing with, and that as the vice tightens over the nanny states the consensus is to begin promoting acceptance more than intolerance to "xenos".

I don't put much credence on that but it is a highly amusing justification on the matter.

I actually like the possibility of allies, I've always wanted to throw in a squad or two from another army for the sake of variety and storytelling (as long as it makes sense fluff-wise). The Blood Angels and Necrons thing is off the reservation in my opinion, though. If GW could find a way to balance/limit the inclusion of ally types (not that they would or could), it would be something I'd be interested in.

The Tau becoming a protectorate of the SM is in direct conflict with years of established fluff, however. Not keen on the idea of that, unless it's an isolated case where the Ethereals were somehow able to use their manipulation to sway one or two chapters. Beyond that, they're more interesting in their role now, as an ideological competitor to the Imperium for the hearts and minds of men. That's much more interesting, IMO.

The Dreadknight is basically a primitive crisis suit, so I endorse this rumor!

Why do people assume all space marines would be best buds with the tau? Just because they are given the task of protecting them does not mean they forget past conflicts, or solely go out to find tau and stay with them, imo it should be the chapters given orders if they find a tau fleet in trouble, they should just help them out and leave, refrain from killing them and don't stay and have a nice chat, most chapters would not want to stay around them anyway.


Even if this is true mind

I could also see some chapters turning renegade perhaps? I imagine people would be pretty cheesed off.

A bit OT but If warhammer was initially based just before the Hersey and the next edition was the heresy it self, would it have a negative effect for GW, imagine if you thought your beloved world eaters were true to the emperor and then all of a sudden have them turn to chaos.

AlexHolker wrote:

agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff? At least an ideological schism would make sense.

I don't. There is no justification that would also allow for a Special Character fighting him- or herself, and the attempt would only weaken the fluff. Better to just write such battles off as uncanon entertainment, nothing more.

That's sort of my point. If someone needs strong fluff to be able to enjoy a game, they'd never be able to play considering the large percentage that play one flavor of Marine or another.

Generally speaking, the fluff is written so badly that I tend not to read completely through the codex/army book, just the rules. I tried to wade my way through some black library books (the Horus Heresy novels) but had to give up because the stories seemed to be written for violent 8 year olds with borderline pathological disorders.

Just curious about the fluff thing since some people are making such a big deal about it in this thread...

Yeah, time for 40K General I think...

In regards to the fluff...
I've played the Ultramarines since 2nd Ed, and I'd rather have my boys in blue declared Excommunicate Traitoris and burned alive than lift a single bolt gun in defense of the Tau.
Now, does this mean Dark Angels are finally going to admit they were ready to side with Horus but for his ass kicking at Terra, and that the Fallen are really the last of the legion's loyalists? 'Cause I'm getting really tired of the Inner Girl Circle of Trust... It was cool. Once. Gav wrote a crap story, but it had a very interesting notion hidden in the turd folds. Lately, however, it's like "Oh, ya know, I used to wear a size 4 dress, but ever since that Feast of Blades it's made my ass look fat."
The day that GW mandates FFG follow suit with this (wildly speculated) fluff change is the day they just killed my purchases from another company that provides me with 40K goodness.
And finally...
If the Horus Heresy novels start having Ultramarines and Tau acting like kissing cousins then I'm out. fething out, and I mean toot sweet. They can sell their shiny, happy, feel good, gold plated horse sh!t to pansy boys with balls the size of bbs and Lolita Girls with cl!td!cks. Seriously. That's like the First and Only bedding down with the Blood Pact.

agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff?.

I don't.

CT GAMER wrote:

agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff?.

I don't.

The same way I justify hot Tau-on-Tau action...

commissarkurn wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff?.

I don't.

The same way I justify hot Tau-on-Tau action...

It's easy to justify marines fighting marines. The same ways marines, IG and SoB came into conflict in DoW.

Milisim wrote:
GW NEED to do something to make the ACTUAL game of 40k FUN. After all games are supposed to be FUN. In its current state 40K is a massive grinding waste of space. The game itself is boring and unbalanced. WHFB is a MUCH more FUN game to play. Wether you liked 7th Edition or not, 8E is still miles more FUN to play than 5E 40k.

I'm gonna disagree with you about 8th edition. For the MOST part it was a solid transition, the simplified moving phase and allowing measuring at any time makes it easy to get people into the hobby, and doesn't really upset us veterans too much (from my experience). Where the edition went terribly wrong, though, is the step up rule, our ranking units as stubborn, and magic. The first two issues can be combined, this has rendered a lot of models (looking at you, assassins) almost completely useless. And units that should have no business being glorified (skaven slaves, for example) are now centerpieces of armies. As an orc and goblin player, I can't stand the relative power hordes have over elite units now. Yes, it used to not make much sense my unit of 40 goblins ran away screaming after taking a couple wounds from a unit of Chaos Knights, but that made much more sense now, whereas long as I have more ranks, all of a sudden I'm almost unbreakable? (I say almost, since you can still roll 10/11/12 to rail leadership). What I'm getting at with this paragraph is the game isn't really fun when there's nothing but horde vs horde, fighting an endless stalemate of "I lost combat, but I'm stubborn so nothing really changes." Are there exceptions to this? Sure, from outflanking and such, but it's not the norm (in MY experience mind you).

Now, I can get past that part, where 8th really messed up with how crucial the magic phase has become. I've never been a huge fan of it, Ever since Storm of Chaos I've liked running my Grimgor's 'Ard boyz list. We don't need no stinkin shaman! Oh wait, yes I do if I don't want to get destroyed by enemy magic. Essentially being forced to include a wizard of some level just to be competitive pisses me off so much. If 40k goes down that same route (which from what I can kind of see form current codex releases) with reliance on psykers, I'll be upset. My orks have no psychic defence, and really gakky psychic offense.

On Topic: I don't mind the fluff change, I twist every now and then keeps things interesting. What I'm worried about is the proposed "allies" thing. I find it counter intuitive to them trying to differentiate the armies. Why go through all the effort of creating the different MEQ books if in the end, they'll just pick and choose between the lot? Also, I won't be looking forward to fighting against psyflemen in EVERY MEQ list.

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

commissarkurn wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff?.

I don't.

The same way I justify hot Tau-on-Tau action...

It's easy to justify marines fighting marines. The same ways marines, IG and SoB came into conflict in DoW.

Then it's just as easy to justify them not killing Tau...

agnosto wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

commissarkurn wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff?.

I don't.

The same way I justify hot Tau-on-Tau action...

It's easy to justify marines fighting marines. The same ways marines, IG and SoB came into conflict in DoW.

Then it's just as easy to justify them not killing Tau...

Not so much.

'Purge the Xenos' is a pretty universal concept in the IoM

I refuse to acknowledge any of this, and if any of it somehow happens to become reality, I shall continue to refuse acknowledging any of it.

Either way, it gave me a good laugh. Space Marines babysitting the Tau who are the key to defeating Chaos? Bahahahaha, oh Emperor that's funny! *wipes tear from eye*

Maybe I should come up with some equally absurd rumour about the future of 40k...

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

commissarkurn wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

agnosto wrote:For fluff folks:
How do you justify all the marines fighting each other on tabletops under the current fluff?.

I don't.

The same way I justify hot Tau-on-Tau action...

It's easy to justify marines fighting marines. The same ways marines, IG and SoB came into conflict in DoW.

Then it's just as easy to justify them not killing Tau...

Not so much.

'Purge the Xenos' is a pretty universal concept in the IoM

I play Dark Angels, deathwing. I justify everything by saying. "They have been touched by the fallen, they must die along with their secrets!"

greenbay924 wrote:
I'm gonna disagree with you about 8th edition. For the MOST part it was a solid transition, the simplified moving phase and allowing measuring at any time makes it easy to get people into the hobby, and doesn't really upset us veterans too much (from my experience). Where the edition went terribly wrong, though, is the step up rule, our ranking units as stubborn, and magic. The first two issues can be combined, this has rendered a lot of models (looking at you, assassins) almost completely useless. And units that should have no business being glorified (skaven slaves, for example) are now centerpieces of armies. As an orc and goblin player, I can't stand the relative power hordes have over elite units now. Yes, it used to not make much sense my unit of 40 goblins ran away screaming after taking a couple wounds from a unit of Chaos Knights, but that made much more sense now, whereas long as I have more ranks, all of a sudden I'm almost unbreakable? (I say almost, since you can still roll 10/11/12 to rail leadership). What I'm getting at with this paragraph is the game isn't really fun when there's nothing but horde vs horde, fighting an endless stalemate of "I lost combat, but I'm stubborn so nothing really changes." Are there exceptions to this? Sure, from outflanking and such, but it's not the norm (in MY experience mind you).

The big screw-up here was the fact that flanking doesn't negate ranks in regards to the steadfast bonus. If breaking ranks also ment no steadfast, things would change and those smaller elite units would have their proper place as the linebreakers & rolling up flanks.

As for the Step-up rule, it was needed, even if it has kinda screwed over fighty characters. I think the answer is simply to drop the pts costs of fighty heroes like assassins and similar so that while they're still deadly, they're no longer priced as if they're nearly impossible to remove!

greenbay924 wrote:Now, I can get past that part, where 8th really messed up with how crucial the magic phase has become. I've never been a huge fan of it, Ever since Storm of Chaos I've liked running my Grimgor's 'Ard boyz list. We don't need no stinkin shaman! Oh wait, yes I do if I don't want to get destroyed by enemy magic. Essentially being forced to include a wizard of some level just to be competitive pisses me off so much. If 40k goes down that same route (which from what I can kind of see form current codex releases) with reliance on psykers, I'll be upset. My orks have no psychic defence, and really gakky psychic offense.

Put simply, Ward went insanely OTT and broke the game here, plain and simple. The book lores are a gakking cluster of game-breaking stupidity! Spells that can insta-wipe entire armies, (*coughpurplesuncough*), shouldn't exist at all! Hell, you can one-shot undead, lizzies, ogres, dwarfs & large chunks of the O&G's with that stupid spell. The Lore of Life is too good in it's buffs, while Shadow magic is again OTT with Mindrazor & Pit of Shades.

Notice however that GW has really gone to great lengths to tone down the magic in all the army books thus far. (bar Empire who can only use the BRB lores!)
No spells of insta-win super zappy'ness, nothing that screams OTT or anything, just good but relatively balanced.

greenbay924 wrote:On Topic: I don't mind the fluff change, I twist every now and then keeps things interesting. What I'm worried about is the proposed "allies" thing. I find it counter intuitive to them trying to differentiate the armies. Why go through all the effort of creating the different MEQ books if in the end, they'll just pick and choose between the lot? Also, I won't be looking forward to fighting against psyflemen in EVERY MEQ list.

My bet is the allies system works in a very similar manner to how 8th edition handels them so as to avoid setting off the perverbial clusterbomb of OP silliness!


I'm honestly hoping that GW have learned from the few glaring errors of 8th edition and give us a similar overhaul and fresh 6th edition 40k, but leave off the more rediculous OTT shinanigans that nearly ruined Fantasy. (*coughpowerstonecough*)