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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/19 19:27:42
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot
Eboli, Italy
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I think that there isn't a unit in the SW codex that is crappy, pretty much all is usable (yes, even the BC who WAAC SW players hate). But, anyway, I'd say Fenrisian Wolves. Ok, they're good and cheap wounds... or at least, they were in the 5th edition. And damn, if Canis could make 'em score units... but, now that I think of it, that would proprably broke the codex. Fenrisian Wolves spam as troops, LF spam and then TWC and Thunderlord.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/19 19:28:29
The wolves are back! *feral howl*
"Si vis pacem para bellum" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/19 19:33:23
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Adolescent Youth with Potential
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Gotta say Sword Brethren. Only slightly better than Initiates with chainswords 'n' bolt pistols and take up an Elites slot.
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For the Greater Good.
FOR THE EMPWAAAGH! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/19 19:34:41
Subject: Re:Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Power-Hungry Cultist of Tzeentch
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Warp Talons.... sigh so cool looking. Also the Chaos LR is a massive waste of potential all around, with Terminators for chaos even filling a lack luster role, usable, but far from the competative choice a super elite 10000+ year old daemon warrior in walking tank armor should be imho.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/19 19:35:19
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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For Black Templars: Sword Brethren (NOT Sword Brethren Terminators). Expensive veterans with 1 attack, no grenades (have to buy them) and poor weapon choices.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/19 19:35:44
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/19 19:43:46
Subject: Re:Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!
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Assault Marines.
Out of ten no more than three have ever made it to the enemy...
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{url=http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/675142.page]{img]http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/11/8/429237_md-.jpg{/img]{/url] |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/19 19:52:38
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Mutating Changebringer
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Use 15. Make a pretty good "I win button".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/19 20:00:37
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Lord of the Fleet
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Culexus Assassin: Was a huge pain in the arse for psykers, then he took a nerfbat to the face...
Flayed Ones: They used to be pretty nice, had a nifty special rule (4ed version of Fear0, before GW took it all away in return for an extra attack and awful models.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 0012/04/16 20:27:47
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Fireknife Shas'el
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For Tau I found two units very underwhelming.
Fireblade just seems pointless. He's a super sargeant with a markerlight and target lock. His only saving grace is BS5, but I don't think it's worth an HQ slot or the 60 points for a T3 4+ save character that only buffs one squad.
Ethereals seem kind of lack luster. 50 points isn't much, but it only does the job that an expendable drone did in the previous codex. Like the Fireblade the only real use is giving a minor buff to troops in an elite oriented army. I know I'll get a lot of flakk for it, but I just don't like them. 6+ FNP is almost completely useless, stubborn is useless for the most part and it's a waste to boost leadership in two ways, and the extra shot at half range seems decent but questionably useful most the game. The only ability I like is the ability to run and snap fire, but due to the range you'll have to keep an ethereal close to the unit to make the most of this and that's just begging to have a firewarrior squad wiped off the table and give up VPs.
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I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."
"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/19 22:57:06
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Focused Fire Warrior
Nottingham
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Savageconvoy - I have to disagree with both of your points. Quite massively actually. Probably the way I play my Tau.
Not lost a game with the current Codex and the last 4 games I have used Fireblade / Ethereal combo HQ (first few games was using Commander or Shadowsun)
Ethereal goes in a Devilfish with 11 Firewarriors in front of Crisis Suits (with GDs) and Piranhas in front of the Devilfish to provide a bit of cover plus using their drones as a good distraction. Ethereal takes Homing Beacon for my DS'ing Riptide/XV8 Suits. It's been nigh on impossible to stop. Ethereal's powers work from the DF Hull so you get a much bigger range. I am very aggressive with my Tau and feel getting close is actually much better for surviving than just sitting back - simply because we put out a stupid amount of firepower within 18". LD10 Bubble keeps pretty much everything around me there (saved my bacon in the last game). I agree the other powers aren't too great but I must say I haven't found a use for the snapfire/run one.
Fireblade stays on the home objective and provides extra pulse or ML depending what I need. 24 Shots at full range is stupid and can put a good dent in most GEQ/MEQ. His force multiplying capability is worth 60pts IMO. In one game it was invaluable at taking down Space Marine Bikers who were advancing quickly to me. Once they got within 15" it was goodnight vienna.
Back on topic - most useless unit? Vespids from 4th Ed Codex. Flayed ones from all Necron codexes...ever.
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-= =- -= =- |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/19 23:07:52
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Dakka Veteran
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Tyranid warriors - 90 points for 3 that dies to more or less everything.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/19 23:53:34
Subject: Re:Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Bane Lord Tartar Sauce
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Codex: Necrons
Worst Unit: Flayed Ones. They are just bad. They take an elite slot (although those aren't exactly in high-demand), they are surprisingly squishy, they aren't likely to hurt anything, and other choices in the codex offer either greater versatility or better performance in the same role for the price, or both.
Most Underwhelming Unit: Triarch Praetorians or Lychguard. Triarch Praetorians should be good, since they are a unit of jump infantry with S6, AP2 melee attacks that are about as tough as a Terminator, but in practice they just don't have the number of attacks to really cause a significant amount of damage at 5 men. For comparison, an equal-sized terminator unit will put down 5 more attacks at S8 per combat. When charging the effectively get a 'free' I10 attack (assuming they are charging less than 6") and can get hammer of wrath, but ultimately they just aren't enough.
For Lychguard, again the key issue is their actual effectiveness compared to what they seem like they should do. Lychguard come in two flavours, Warscythe and Sword and Board. Warscythe Lychguard hit like a ton of bricks, with 2 S7 SAP2 Armourbane attacks per model without the charge, but they suffer from the fact that they will be out in the open for at least a turn before they get the charge, and even then they will hit last due to their I2. Sword and Board Lychguard are just bad, however. At 45 PPM they trade their warscythe for a power sword AND a 4++, which adds surprisingly little to their survivability and has a largely useless secondary ability (it basically means that if there is an enemy within 6" that fires a AP3 or better weapon at them, it has a ~50% chance of bouncing back at them, which while sounding cool practically speaking the only time the ability will come into effect is when the Lychguard are being charged by a squad with low AP assault weapons)
Codex: Dark Angels
Worst Unit: Dark Talon or Land Speeder Vengeance: The Darktalon offers a lot of low strength shooting, which isn't really what a marine army wants. It comes with 6 Rapid Fire TL bolter shots, a S5 small blast and a S5 Once a game large blast. Both blasts are AP - and have marginal additional rules (the penalty to WS and I is not useless, but it isn't great against most units in the game). The Veangeance would be fine if it was either cheaper, more durable, or had better range, but 140 points for an AV10, HP2 skimmer with a suped-up plasma gun (that still has a 24" range) is still just too much.
Most Underwhelming Unit: The Land Speeder Vengeance. As mentioned before, its supposed to be a better land-speeder with an amazing gun, but it is severely limited by its paper armour and its short range. Anything more powerful than a lasgun will tear this to shreds.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 00:11:47
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Lord of the Fleet
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Dracoknight wrote:Tyranid warriors - 90 points for 3 that dies to more or less everything.
Far from useless. For 30 points you get 3 wounds, 3 attacks, and most importantly, you get Synapse and Shadows which can really hamper your opponents strategies depending on the enemy army.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 00:53:29
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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I guess for space marines its these: Worst Unit: Devastators - Weapon costs are horrible, only 4 HW max, and they themselves are expensive, not to mention are squishy at 5 men. One could do ten devs for more durability, but for that cost i can get a tac squad with cheaper weapons, and the ability to score. Underwhelming Unit: Legion of the Dammed - Deep striking Tac maries, with a 3+ invuln, and can take a SW & HW in a 5 man squad. If only it wasn't so expensive....WHY?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/20 00:53:41
Blood Ravens 2nd Company (C:SM)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 00:58:25
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Fireknife Shas'el
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I guess I could sum up why I found ethereal and fireblades to be underwhelming like this.
Fireblade makes a unit of Firewarriors static. They're not given heavy/special weapons because they're not supposed to be static. He just seems like a buffed up sargeant, but only because our current sargeants don't get access to wargear or anything. Imagine CSM if you had to attach a Chaos Lord to a unit just to get a banner or marks. It feels like they intentionally made the squad Sargeant bad to make a place for this guy.
Ethereals do what Shadow sun's drone did last edition. If any unit was only as good as drone from the previous edition, I'd say the same thing. They still have a drawback from being taken down, though it's not much but I imagine it will swing many games. Other than that they only really buff the leadership of the troops. Congrats. You spend an HQ slot to get what the majority of armies get for free. Tactical marines got ATSKNF for 1 point more than CSM. CSM get +1LD on each unit for 1ppm.
I'd much rather take a marker drone Commander, because he offers a buff that the rest of my army can use and is far more versatile. Really, that's what it boils down to for me. Is it more valuable than an expensive suit with almost no weaponry?
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I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."
"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 02:45:40
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Freaky Flayed One
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Scythe Lychguard. They could be so good if there was just some way to reliably get them into combat.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/20 02:45:52
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 04:01:18
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Freaky Flayed One
Photo Gallery Coming Soon...
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Flayed Ones. I like the old models, but what makes them elite? There 3 basic attack? This unit could be so much better....
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"I don't know half of you half as well as I would like, I like less than half of you, half as well as you deserve".
BloodRavens: 3500pts (100% Painted).
Necrons: 3000pts. (100% Painted) .
Tau: 1850pts. (100% Painted). |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 04:14:17
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Freaky Flayed One
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Mark1130 wrote:Flayed Ones. I like the old models, but what makes them elite? There 3 basic attack? This unit could be so much better....
Right. I change my answer.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 06:19:41
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Ancient Chaos Terminator
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All those chaos spawn posts were from like 2009. This thread was necroed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 06:25:14
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Rippy wrote:
All those chaos spawn posts were from like 2009. This thread was necroed.
More necro here than a tomb world.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 08:44:05
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Lieutenant Colonel
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ace101 wrote:I guess for space marines its these:
Worst Unit: Devastators - Weapon costs are horrible, only 4 HW max, and they themselves are expensive, not to mention are squishy at 5 men. One could do ten devs for more durability, but for that cost i can get a tac squad with cheaper weapons, and the ability to score.
One Word "Signum"....However I do think "Vanilla Devs" need a little buff, (maybe reduce the points or given them "Fire-Control".
I would like to see Techmarines & Libby's given some-kind of Buff even if it is a INV save.
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Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 08:47:35
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Norn Queen
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Valkyrie wrote:Dracoknight wrote:Tyranid warriors - 90 points for 3 that dies to more or less everything.
Far from useless. For 30 points you get 3 wounds, 3 attacks, and most importantly, you get Synapse and Shadows which can really hamper your opponents strategies depending on the enemy army.
Yeah, Warriors have their problems, but they're far from the most underwhelming in the codex. Rippers? Sky Slashers? Pyrovores?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 09:04:25
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Stalwart Strike Squad Grey Knight
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Daemonhosts? or one of the other random completely useless henchmen
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 09:13:16
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Morphing Obliterator
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Anything with guardians in the title. Thats why war walkers are stil good!
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Chaos Space Marines - Iron Warriors & Night Lords 7900pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 09:37:44
Subject: Re:Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Guardsman with Flashlight
Zeeland, the Netherlands
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Some people have posted Chaos Spawn as most underwhelming... I agree that this was the case in last edition, but now? Those things are beasts! Literally, no S&P and BEASTS. Those guys can get a turn 2 asssault on! Pretty cheap and altough they don't have any armour, making use of cover (That they can just bulldoze through, because they are ABSOLUTE BEAST) and their nice toughness value+wounds make it so you can have these guys at the right place at the right time.
I like to run a unit of 4, this is not as expensive as you might think, and mess things up for my oponent as soon as I can, ruining his carefully choreographed Eldar style dance/assault with chaotic monsters and gibbering hordes that rush forward with no thoughts or hesitations of their own, for they have gone beyond madness and mutations. They should be revered, as messengers of the Gods!
What were we talking about again?
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Are you Dutch? Do you live in Zeeland, and want to join a cool, friendly club to play your games? Give me a PM!
<--- Yeah that's me. I'm a cartoon bear IRL. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 10:12:05
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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Burning Chariots... so useless. They look cool and sound coll but are bloody useless as you can only shoot if you don't move... on a chariot that is more flimsy than a slaanesh chariot
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 12:02:59
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Dakka Veteran
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-Loki- wrote: Valkyrie wrote:Dracoknight wrote:Tyranid warriors - 90 points for 3 that dies to more or less everything.
Far from useless. For 30 points you get 3 wounds, 3 attacks, and most importantly, you get Synapse and Shadows which can really hamper your opponents strategies depending on the enemy army.
Yeah, Warriors have their problems, but they're far from the most underwhelming in the codex. Rippers? Sky Slashers? Pyrovores?
Well, the warriors in spirit of the thread "underwhelming" despite that they have decent stats, but they really doesnt work that well in a game most of the time.
rippers, sky slashers and pyrovores i didnt mention because they are more or less outright USELESS, not underwhelming, but USELESS!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 13:54:25
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Son_Of _Deddog wrote:Furies...Just why??? If they were troops, with a price cut, they might just be useful. Even Beasts of Nurgle and Screamers can have uses (principally in a Tallyman list though..) but Furies?? Not with a thousand foot pole.. Furies are great now. 7 points for a slaanesh fury, with rending, strength 4, initiative 4, jump infantry, an extra 3+ run, hammer of wrath from being jump. Squad of 20 is just 140 points, and they score in the scouring. That's better than cultists by a long shot. I'd consider them almost an auto take if you have the points, and don't want to focus your army on flesh hounds. Yes, they have low leadership for instability, but if your enemy is shooting down this 140 point unit, they are not shooting down other things in your army. If they don't shoot down furies, 40 attacks on the charge, and 20 hammer of wrath hits, rending in their combat attacks, you would be hard pressed to find a unit they would lose combat against. Maybe a initiative 5 unit, but those are rare. So yeah, they either soak up a ton of fire, or get in and disrupt the enemy's backfield horribly. They are even good against light vehicles at strength 4 and rending.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/20 13:55:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 15:04:51
Subject: Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot
Fenris, Drinking
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Depends if it's my Space Wolves probebly skyclaws, if it's my Tyranids probebly pyrovores, if it's my sisters it's probebly my army.
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"They can't say no when they are stunned "- Taric
SINCE I STARTED KEEPING TRACK
5000(7 drop-pods)pts (15/10/4)
200pts(lol)
1500pts (10/0/0)
Other:(7/0/0) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 15:43:34
Subject: Re:Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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Sinewy Scourge
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Definitely DE Mandrakes. Everything about them is so cool, But their weapon is nothing but a stupid regular sword!!! All they needed was Rending or Poison or ANYTHING in order to hurt things!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 15:44:54
Subject: Re:Most Underwhelming Unit in your Codex
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The Last Chancer Who Survived
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Chaos Cultists.
Until you bring two or three large mobs of them, so that when your enemy starts shooting them they just waste all their firepower on what is basically a sacrifice to the dark gods.
Or just use Plague Zombies with Typhus. Add in some Plague Marines with special weapons, a Heldrake or two and some heavy support, and it's practically an "I win" button.
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