Eldar hate needs to stop.

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**Melissia**

Quickjager wrote:
Melissia you have yet to add anything constructive to this

Oh, you're trying to call me out as "not constructive" in a thread that has turned in to nothing more than vapid whining?

That's not going to have much effect. There's nothing constructive about saying "I HATE ELDAR" for ten fething pages, yet you're perfectly okay with that.

Meanwhile, I'm telling people to calm the feth down and stop overreacting to every damn thing that comes their way as if it's the freaking apocalypse. You can say that's not "constructive" all you want, but there's no room for rational discussions when people are basically screaming at each other.

**Filch**

Mr_Piddlez wrote:
I once played in a weekly progressive league during the beginning of 6th. When the newest book was CSM and when eldar was good, but probably the most tame I had ever seen the army.

We had an eldar player that just rocked the competition each week. I think he only took two losses during the entire league. One of which was me, but that was also back when heldrakes edged just over that OP line that prevented anyone with a conscious from bringing more than one into a friendly game. Every week he would bring a list that edged pretty hard to cheesy, not unbeatable, but harder than most. One day I brought up the harshness of his lists to him, and what he said stuck with me.

"Eldar are cheaty space elves. You can play a more fluffy list if you would like, but it just isn't going to win. To play as cheaty space elves, you need to bring cheaty space elf things."

The sad thing is, this makes sense. I've only played since 5th edition, but from what I hear, Eldar have always been top of the pecking order from pretty much the beginning. To the point that it is EXPECTED for the eldar player to have an upper hand in games. I really feel bad for players who just play eldar because of the fluff or aesthetics of the army since it sounds like it has been the goto cheese army for a long time.

So it makes sense for all the hate. After 7 editions of having to build specific counters for eldar armies for the competitive scene, people are just done dealing with them and would rather just not play against them anymore. It just does not feel fair to play against Eldar. They are the cheaty space elves after all. Cheaters aren't fun to play against and in any other game where people cheat, they get banned. By no means are eldar players cheaters, it just feels that way considering every fight seems like an uphill battle from turn one. They're faster, hit harder, more synergized psychic powers, and have more durability via evasion. They're like fighting a boss that spams the same super move every turn.

For people like me, who can only really invest in one army. Being CSM, Eldar are one of the main reasons I just can't play. At the FLGS, I'm either playing against eldar or against someone who had to crank their list past eleven because they may have to play against eldar. Both of which mean I may as well pack my bag and go home and beat my head against the wall for the next four hours. I'll still get the same headache and overall sense of disappointment.

While I wait for my codex rotation to hit, I only hope it can beat eldar. If it can't, It's not going to beat anyone who can beat eldar. Literally, I have to measure my book by the fact whether it can or cannot beat one army. This determines whether I'll be able to find enjoyment playing this game for the next two years or not. When your book is on the side of the line that brands you a loser for two years, Your either going to quit playing, become bitter, or refuse to play any army on the other side of that line. Thus alienating a player base.

It has just finally hit a point where the fatigue of the game has gotten to most players. Sure, SOME armies can beat eldar, but they tend to get just as much hate themselves. So the people who can't fit that niche are just fed up with dealing with them in their own ways. Most taking up a toxic stance on the game as a whole by banning eldar, necrons, and certain formations. Alienating the playerbase and shaming any who play those armies and formations, and generally being aggressive and bitter towards others that think differently. For examples, see pages 1 through 9.

I personally think the recent Eldar book ruined 40K, Which probably puts me on the side of the wall with the bitter and hateful. But i didn't choose to be on this side, It got built when that book got released. I just had the misfortune of being branded a loser until my next codex drops. Then MAYBE I get to play with the "winners" again. Until then, i get to play in the dirt with the other "losers".

TLDR; Either you play eldar, someone hated as much as eldar, or you lose.

I know that feeling. I too have had only 1 army for over 6 years. That army is CSM... I know exactly what you are talking about.

However I made the big jump to IK and to my utter disappointment, 2 Wraithknights murdered 4 Imperial Knights a turn at I5 amd all the weapons on a IK are not good enough yet cost more than a WK.

**Vaktathi**

Eldar have never been "unbeatable" (I don't think any army list has ever been 100% unbeatable, if for no other reason than it can still just roll nothing but 1's), however there is a very strong truth to the idea that Eldar are the consistently "op" thing, they do have a track record of being at the top of the power pyramid in basically every edition (RT doesn't really count) from 2E onward except 5th (which also happened to be the only edition they didn't get a codex) and I don't think any other army can boast such a track record.

**Mr_Piddlez**

Melissia wrote:Eldar have not been "ermagerd da mots op tihng aver" for seven editions. That's ridiculous hyperbole, and goes against what actually happened-- Eldar have not always been on top, unbeatable every single edition, time after time. Making gak up doesn't make it real, even if it makes you feel better. Every edition's had the armies that have been complained about, and people always say this edition is worse so that they have an excuse to complain harder.

Every single edition. And they always say "WELL THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT!" but the only proof that's ever provided is hyperbole. Yawn. Crying wolf, louder and louder...

I never stated that eldar have been top for 7 editions, i did imply it since it follows along with what i've been reading on dakka for the last year. But once again, I really only got into the game during 6th, So I can be very wrong. I'm sorry if I offended you with my lack of knowledge on previous editions.

Now, as far as crying wolf. I think that time is long past. The wolf has ate the boy, the sheep, and the townsfolk. In fact, the wolf is really the only thing left, and doesn't recognize that he ate them all. It's just him and other wolves wondering where all the food went. (The wolves are eldar player's if you couldn't quite follow that).

I have seen this codex ruin 40K at my FLGS. We ran progressive leagues weekly on 1 month cycles. basically start at 750 and 1500 when we ended. We had three eldar players in our gaming group. Two were old eldar players and the third was a new player that started after the codex dropped. There was me and one other CSM player, a couple space marine players, a BA player, a couple necrons, and a one tau player. A pretty solid mixture. Over the course of 3 leagues, all three eldar players were top 3 every league. It wasn't even like they were running heavy cheese lists, The book was just that hard to fight.

People were pretty disheartened about it. Slowly, all the regulars either stopped playing or just played at home. In the end, it was just me and the 3 eldar players coming every week with the occasional necron player. No one wanted to play against the Eldar players, not even the other eldar players. If that's not a sign of a problem, I don't know what is.

What as a player base are we supposed to do about that sort of situation? We could ban eldar or nerf them hard with house rules. But it's not their fault that their army is that hard to beat. They were playing to the best of their ability with the tools at their disposal just like the rest of us and it was morally wrong to exclude them because of it. None of them were bad guys or even close to TFGs, they just had a bigger toolbox than the rest of us. When we all decided to pack up our tools and go home, they were left there with wrench in hand wondering why we left. So, if you think I'm crying wolf over eldar, there's my little example of how it has ruined gaming at my FLGS.

So when I seem bitter or hateful about eldar, It's not the players I hate. Its the army that destroyed 40K at my FLGS that I hate.

As I said in my last post, after eldar, your on one of two sides of a wall. Either you can fight eldar or you can't. So when your on the side that can't, you better like playing with the people on your side of the wall, cause your not gonna have any fun on the other side.

**SirDonlad**

Melissia wrote:
Quickjager wrote:
Melissia you have yet to add anything constructive to this
Oh, you're trying to call me out as "not constructive" in a thread that has turned in to nothing more than vapid whining?

That's not going to have much effect. There's nothing constructive about saying "I HATE ELDAR" for ten fething pages, yet you're perfectly okay with that.

Meanwhile, I'm telling people to calm the feth down and stop overreacting to every damn thing that comes their way as if it's the freaking apocalypse. You can say that's not "constructive" all you want, but there's no room for rational discussions when people are basically screaming at each other.

You 'aint going to calm the situation by labeling everything people have written as "vapid whining" - deep down you know thats just a dig to p*** people off or demean the person you percieve as arguing against you.

Being obnoxious is not going to make someone else who is also being obnoxious realize it and stop.

Pretending that you're really trying to play peace-keeper while dishing out generalized insults is extremely hipocritical - so i'm asking you to kindly step away from the keyboard and get out of your system whatever it is which is making you do these things.

I've seen you stick up for someone who was on the receiving end of what you're doing here before - what gives?

**motyak**

This thread isn't worth saving from what I can see. Behaviour has been terrible, try and keep that out of your posting