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 Frazzled wrote:
You would think someone would have figured out to equip your guards with shotguns by now if lightsabres are around. Ash and his boom stick would have ended the jedi in their tracks...

That'd only work if you catch them off guard.. I mean Force push would just shove that flame right back at you when you think about it.

And that’s something that irked me for years, until Clone Wars.

Never seeing Jedi employ Force Powers during a scrap. Caught your opponent off guard? Why not try force repel or pull as the situation requires.

Things getting a bit hot and close? Force jump to better location.

Which, frankly, is all the more reason to love the Clone Wars series. It’s effing ace!

It shouldn't irk anyone. Yoda says. "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."

The sith are the ones chucking rocks and gak at people. Even when Yoda and old man Duku face off yoda catches each of his attacks and places them aside. He never throws anything back.

 AduroT wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
You would think someone would have figured out to equip your guards with shotguns by now if lightsabres are around. Ash and his boom stick would have ended the jedi in their tracks...

Spoiler:

Conisdering Star Wars has shown us Jedi repelling and shooting back solid shell ammunition or flames, I doubt this would work. Hell they even shown Vader stopping and pushing back a laser bolt with the Force and Kylo freeze one in place (and make it look easy). Even an unarmed Jedi looks capable of stopping deadly weapons and turning them against their opponent.

 Lance845 wrote:
It shouldn't irk anyone. Yoda says. "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."

The sith are the ones chucking rocks and gak at people. Even when Yoda and old man Duku face off yoda catches each of his attacks and places them aside. He never throws anything back.

Yet all the fights we saw involved Sith. Where were their Mingy Chucky Powers, eh?

epronovost wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
You would think someone would have figured out to equip your guards with shotguns by now if lightsabres are around. Ash and his boom stick would have ended the jedi in their tracks...

Spoiler:

Conisdering Star Wars has shown us Jedi repelling and shooting back solid shell ammunition or flames, I doubt this would work. Hell they even shown Vader stopping and pushing back a laser bolt with the Force and Kylo freeze one in place (and make it look easy). Even an unarmed Jedi looks capable of stopping deadly weapons and turning them against their opponent.

But they shouldn't be. In the Orig Trig the Jedi never use the force to kill. They use their LIGHT SABERS to attack. They use the force to know WHEN and HOW to strike, but they don't actually draw on the force to make do the actual swing or shoot the actual blast.

It's not until the prequels when that pretense gets dropped and the jedi start killing with the force. Though to be fair, they mostly do it to droids, which could be the excuse for why it's ok.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
It shouldn't irk anyone. Yoda says. "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."

The sith are the ones chucking rocks and gak at people. Even when Yoda and old man Duku face off yoda catches each of his attacks and places them aside. He never throws anything back.

Yet all the fights we saw involved Sith. Where were their Mingy Chucky Powers, eh?

I have seen the explanation that they all enter a battle meditation when fighting with the lightsaber. It's incredibly difficult to maintain but it gives them that foresight to know when and where to block, parry, and deflect. (It's also the reason everyone isn't just using the force to turn off each others light sabers mid swing.) Every time we see a Jedi push or pull or do some kind of force gak it's after they disengage and take a step away from each other.

 Lance845 wrote:

But they shouldn't be. In the Orig Trig the Jedi never use the force to kill. They use their LIGHT SABERS to attack. They use the force to know WHEN and HOW to strike, but they don't actually draw on the force to make do the actual swing or shoot the actual blast.

It's not until the prequels when that pretense gets dropped and the jedi start killing with the force. Though to be fair, they mostly do it to droids, which could be the excuse for why it's ok.

IMO, I view it as a sign even the Jedi Order was corrupt by the time of the prequels.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

But they shouldn't be. In the Orig Trig the Jedi never use the force to kill. They use their LIGHT SABERS to attack. They use the force to know WHEN and HOW to strike, but they don't actually draw on the force to make do the actual swing or shoot the actual blast.

It's not until the prequels when that pretense gets dropped and the jedi start killing with the force. Though to be fair, they mostly do it to droids, which could be the excuse for why it's ok.

IMO, I view it as a sign even the Jedi Order was corrupt by the time of the prequels.

Wasn't Mace Windu using a borderline Dark Side technique in combat?

Any way, I think it makes little sense that Force mind control is ok, but using Force telekinesis in combat would not be ok. And Yoda certainly used his powers offensively vs Palpatine.

The Jedi Mind Trick is the most problematic power to me. Removing someone's free will, even for an instance just doesn't seem right.

Mace windus dark side technique is one that allows himself to enjoy combat without loosing himself in that enjoyment or falling/purseing that feeling into the dark side.

Hes the only jedi trusted to use it without falling.

 Lance845 wrote:
It shouldn't irk anyone. Yoda says. "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."

The sith are the ones chucking rocks and gak at people. Even when Yoda and old man Duku face off yoda catches each of his attacks and places them aside. He never throws anything back.

Well, except for an entire Senate platform at Palpatine.

Yeah. The prequels are gak. We all know this.

They start off gak. They get slightly less gakky. And they end in a big pile of gak.

It doesnt change yodas original message to luke about how a jedi is supposed to use the force.

 Lance845 wrote:
Mace windus dark side technique is one that allows himself to enjoy combat without loosing himself in that enjoyment or falling/purseing that feeling into the dark side.

Hes the only jedi trusted to use it without falling.

Mace WIndu developed the style with his friend, and only taught it to two others. His friend fell to the dark side. One student got lost in her lust for combat and died as a result, and the other fell to the dark side but only Yoda knew he was a double agent the whole time.

As a result Windu refused to teach the style to anyone else.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Mace windus dark side technique is one that allows himself to enjoy combat without loosing himself in that enjoyment or falling/purseing that feeling into the dark side.

Hes the only jedi trusted to use it without falling.

Mace WIndu developed the style with his friend, and only taught it to two others. His friend fell to the dark side. One student got lost in her lust for combat and died as a result, and the other fell to the dark side but only Yoda knew he was a double agent the whole time.

As a result Windu refused to teach the style to anyone else.

Probably true. I never read the book it came from. I get my info from wikis I read a long time ago (but in this galaxy).

 Lance845 wrote:
Mace windus dark side technique is one that allows himself to enjoy combat without loosing himself in that enjoyment or falling/purseing that feeling into the dark side.

Hes the only jedi trusted to use it without falling.

But Mace Windu did fall......



Out a window!



Thank You! I'm here all week.

 Lance845 wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Mace windus dark side technique is one that allows himself to enjoy combat without loosing himself in that enjoyment or falling/purseing that feeling into the dark side.

Hes the only jedi trusted to use it without falling.

Mace WIndu developed the style with his friend, and only taught it to two others. His friend fell to the dark side. One student got lost in her lust for combat and died as a result, and the other fell to the dark side but only Yoda knew he was a double agent the whole time.

As a result Windu refused to teach the style to anyone else.

Probably true. I never read the book it came from. I get my info from wikis I read a long time ago (but in this galaxy).

It might have a few different versions.

I'm thinking of the history given in the original Clone Wars comic series by Dark Horse.

 Lance845 wrote:

epronovost wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
You would think someone would have figured out to equip your guards with shotguns by now if lightsabres are around. Ash and his boom stick would have ended the jedi in their tracks...

Spoiler:

Conisdering Star Wars has shown us Jedi repelling and shooting back solid shell ammunition or flames, I doubt this would work. Hell they even shown Vader stopping and pushing back a laser bolt with the Force and Kylo freeze one in place (and make it look easy). Even an unarmed Jedi looks capable of stopping deadly weapons and turning them against their opponent.

But they shouldn't be. In the Orig Trig the Jedi never use the force to kill. They use their LIGHT SABERS to attack. They use the force to know WHEN and HOW to strike, but they don't actually draw on the force to make do the actual swing or shoot the actual blast.

Except for Luke force-choking those Gamorreans.

To be fair, we don't know if Luke KILLED those Gamorreans, or just made them pass out. But in either case, Luke might not be the "best" example of a Jedi and even before the Prequels, it was hinted that Luke might be the first of a new kind of Force user that balance the light and the dark.
We can see this in his costume design, which is all black until the end in which we can see a white panel folded out as he talks with Anakin as he dies.

I also keep hearing how "Skywalker" in the EpIX title is the new "Jedi" or "Sith" as each 3rd part has eluded to a group of force users. 'Return of the Jedi', 'Revenge of the Sith', 'The Rise of Skywalker'.
The main issue I have with this theory is the missing "the" in front of Skywalker, which leads to think it does indeed to refer to an individual, not a group. Still could be a title, instead of a name though

-

One shouldn't dwell too much on those things. In pretty much every martial arts movie ever made, master or sensei is careful to stress how these techniques are only for self-defence. Next thing you know, protagonist attacks the bad guy's base and beats up everyone there.

Personally the nonsensical "Jedi must stay celibate" thing from the prequels offends me much more.

Lance845 wrote:Yeah. The prequels are gak. We all know this.

They start off gak. They get slightly less gakky. And they end in a big pile of gak.

I'd argue that Attack of the Clones is the low point for the prequel trilogy, it lacks the underlying enthusiasm Phantom Menace had and the qualified improvement we see by Revenge of the Sith, leaving us with the actors struggling with barebones direction and absent sets (people really dug into the performances of the younger actors which I felt was unfair given how much Jackson and Lee clearly struggle as well). And on top of it all it's just so boring.

Galef wrote:To be fair, we don't know if Luke KILLED those Gamorreans, or just made them pass out.

That scene, along with the black clothes and shift in attitude are supposed to plant the seed of doubt in the audience that Luke might actually fall to the dark side in the climax of the film. I always took it to be that: choke to incapacitate and not to kill, but EU authors have offered all sorts of alternate explanations including force illusions to confince the gammoreans they were choking and, through reflex, choke themselves.

Because that's way better than actually choking them right?

Backfire wrote:
One shouldn't dwell too much on those things. In pretty much every martial arts movie ever made, master or sensei is careful to stress how these techniques are only for self-defence. Next thing you know, protagonist attacks the bad guy's base and beats up everyone there.

Personally the nonsensical "Jedi must stay celibate" thing from the prequels offends me much more.

It's probably there to discourage misuse of the Jedi mind trick.

I just figured it was because luke was a gak jedi who had both his teachers die on him prematurely.

Ive said it before, lukes strength isnt being the best at anything. Hes not. Its his convictions. That he comes so close to falling and then pulls back. Luke does force choke a dude. Thats because luke is a feth up pretending to know more then he does and be better than he is because he doesnt have any other choice.

We also don’t know how corrupted Jedi teachings became over the centuries and millennia.

The whole monastic Puritan thing could well be the result of a past schism, where a more extreme element won out. It could’ve started to as ‘The Order comes before your family, but you can have one if you want’. Or even lighter interpretations.

Backfire wrote:

Personally the nonsensical "Jedi must stay celibate" thing from the prequels offends me much more.

I don't recall anyone ever saying that they had to be celibate, just that they were forbidden from attachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:
Luke does force choke a dude. Thats because luke is a feth up pretending to know more then he does and be better than he is because he doesnt have any other choice.

I always saw that as Luke pretending to be a badass in the belief that Jabba would be more likely to respect a show of strength.

Screw all the celibacy thing. To me Corran Horn's father will always have been a Jedi.

But maybe that's because Rogue Squadron was some of the best of the EU. Cool characters and epic space battles, just like Star Wars should be.

I always thought it was because at that point Luke WAS a badass.

Also in the original series, right out it was said that Luke was Anakin's kid and there wasn't anything bad about that, just the regret Ben had about losing his friend to Vader. In the first series Jedi Knights were Knights not space priests. That only got weird in the prequels, which bulloxed everything up.

 Lance845 wrote:
I just figured it was because luke was a gak jedi who had both his teachers die on him prematurely.

Ive said it before, lukes strength isnt being the best at anything. Hes not. Its his convictions. That he comes so close to falling and then pulls back. Luke does force choke a dude. Thats because luke is a feth up pretending to know more then he does and be better than he is because he doesnt have any other choice.

I also think Luke is not particularly powerful Jedi. We sorta assume he must be special because he is the hero, but in the OT he is more like one-eyed guy in galaxy of the blind. Obviously it would be unrealistic to expect him to match the Emperor, with such a minimal training.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

Also in the original series, right out it was said that Luke was Anakin's kid and there wasn't anything bad about that, just the regret Ben had about losing his friend to Vader. In the first series Jedi Knights were Knights not space priests. That only got weird in the prequels, which bulloxed everything up.

It was something Lucas probably cooked up on the spot to make Anakin & Padme more of a 'star-crossed lovers'.
EU stories had plenty of Jedis married or in relationships.

EU also had Yuuzhan Vong, and force sensitives being used as batteries.

Gotta take the rough with the smooth

As for Frazz’s point? Seems monastic Jedi were always Lucas’ intention, even if he didn’t get that over in the first three.

There are a lot of things that Lucas now claims were always the intention that never appeared or got a mention in the original trilogy.

Hell, even the number of movies he 'always intended' to make has changed over the years.