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 Albertorius wrote:
That's honestly never been a problem for us. We just put the ammo where it feels more logical (like in the same location as the weapon or the ones besides it).

And if we're "wrong" when comparing it with the official ones, who cares?

yup and a lotta people approuch that, that and record sheet programs are why TBH RS books themselves sell kinda poorly.

 Albertorius wrote:
And if we're "wrong" when comparing it with the official ones, who cares?

Technically you can gain a slight advantage by weapon placement, ensuring equipment doesn't straddle critical location zones, putting ammunition away from the 3-4 results (given the average rolls on D6's) and so on.

The official record sheets are usually quite consistent however - Jump Jets are mounted as high as possible, then heat sinks, then weapons/equipment, then ammo.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
And if we're "wrong" when comparing it with the official ones, who cares?

Technically you can gain a slight advantage by weapon placement, ensuring equipment doesn't straddle critical location zones, putting ammunition away from the 3-4 results (given the average rolls on D6's) and so on.

The official record sheets are usually quite consistent however - Jump Jets are mounted as high as possible, then heat sinks, then weapons/equipment, then ammo.

that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
And if we're "wrong" when comparing it with the official ones, who cares?

Technically you can gain a slight advantage by weapon placement, ensuring equipment doesn't straddle critical location zones, putting ammunition away from the 3-4 results (given the average rolls on D6's) and so on.

The official record sheets are usually quite consistent however - Jump Jets are mounted as high as possible, then heat sinks, then weapons/equipment, then ammo.

In a single die, the chances of showing one particular face are exactly the same as the chances of showing any other, about 16% each (and the chances of getting 1-3 or 4-6 are, of course, 50%), so I don't think it's that much of a problem, TBH.

But sticking more or less to the way things are usually done, as you said, tends to work pretty well.

BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o

I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.

I'm more irked with stuff like arm weapons being fed by ammo in the legs... that really does baffle my mind ^^

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o

I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.

and if every design was perfect the game would have maybe a dozen mechs tops.

Alhtough nothing justifies the ER PPC with 10 SHS designs

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o

I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.

and if every design was perfect the game would have maybe a dozen mechs tops.

Alhtough nothing justifies the ER PPC with 10 SHS designs

Hey, maybe the designer was fond of saunas

Ok, yeah, there are some baffling design choices like that (the Hatamoto-[X] line of 'Mechs spring to mind instantly).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o

I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.

What you've mentioned here is why I absolutely despise custom-made mechs by players. Because, like with all games, in Battletech there are just as many "mathhammer" opportunities to make an optimized mech. However doing so is player driven, and ignores the fake "reality" of the Battletech universe.

In arms production on any scale you'll have all the bs you find in modern arms manufacturing....

+Questionable contractors
+Poorly negotiated terms
+Shortcuts taken with or without permission
+Lack of specific materials
+Political issues/bickering preventing the use of premium equipment
+Poor workshop or factory conditions
+Lack of materials or equipment/ammunition to do the ongoing war effort, embargoes, planetary blockades
+Selfish pride that prevents a country/faction from using better equipment because they'd rather use self-produced gear
+Industrial espionage
+Changing contracts and plans due to political shifts or power vacuums
+Delayed projects which are sub-par by the time their released because they're so late
+Poor finances so you're buying used and abused goods from a larger nearby power
+Desperation in design because the war happened quick and you're making whatever you can, regardless of quality just to get it out the fething door!
etc. etc. etc.

It's this kind of stuff that is so often ignored in almost every wargame. "Ugh why is this designed that way? It's lame and would be better like this..."

Because that's just how it was fething designed, lol. Ask any soldier from a grunt in the field to a general if they're 100% happy with their equipment they're using? Not a single one in our world would say "Yep, everything is 100% and good to go!"

Every military weapon or procurement process has flaws...heaps of them. In the "god mode" that is controlling a wargame, we have the luxury of ignoring this all too often. I know there are some fan mod systems for building more realistic mechs, etc...but it's all the reasons above that I love the awkward and occasionally stupid mechs of 3025. It's why the Clan mechs, while fantastic, often feel cold. In many instances they're nearly perfectly designed for their roles and tasks.

It's actually the same mindset that makes me take sub-optimal armies in 40K. I like to imagine my armies fighting with their sub-par selected units - why? Because that's what was there. A perfect mathhammer force wasn't available to that field commander at that moment, so he's getting the job done with the units he has available. It's a mechanism which is just absent in waaaaay too many wargames.

/rant

Not that custom designs can't be fun. Yes, it's very easy to load a 'Mech up with Clan Pulse Lasers and a Targeting Computer, but that gets old.

It's more fun to come up with weird ideas and see if you can make them work. Right now I've been experimenting with Improved Jump Jets and Partial Wings. The aim? Not to make the world's most amazing killing machine, but rather to see how far I can make a 'Mech fly and still have it be useful. I mean, can you imagine the look on an opponent's face when a 100-ton 'Mech jumps 7 hexes behind them?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ok, yeah, there are some baffling design choices like that (the Hatamoto-[X] line of 'Mechs spring to mind instantly).

Well, taking into account that they're fething Charger mods, I'd call them brilliant

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Not that custom designs can't be fun. Yes, it's very easy to load a 'Mech up with Clan Pulse Lasers and a Targeting Computer, but that gets old.

It's more fun to come up with weird ideas and see if you can make them work. Right now I've been experimenting with Improved Jump Jets and Partial Wings. The aim? Not to make the world's most amazing killing machine, but rather to see how far I can make a 'Mech fly and still have it be useful. I mean, can you imagine the look on an opponent's face when a 100-ton 'Mech jumps 7 hexes behind them?

yeah I long ago moved on from optimized designs to "designs with character and a story behind them"

It really is so much more fun that way

https://bg.battletech.com/news/sneak-peek-battletech-clan-invasion-boxed-set-contents/?fbclid=IwAR20qFCZDNUZMMrpKF9bmrbXjQCAmPSUIp075LsrQtNNtTnfEw7DdeDhHlY

Kerensky is coming!

M.

I really like the new Executioner and Grendel.

I’ll need to see what is offered during the Kickstarter, but right now it looks to me like it’s going to be a glorified pre-order. Considering that the other intro box is $80 with 8 mechs (before discount) $50 is really high for 5 mechs during a kickstarter by a company that has produced figures of mixed quality and has had logistics issues regarding supply and shipping in the past. I want to be excited about this, but it’s going to really need to make money sense. I don’t need them to go insane with what they offer, but I need it to be much closer to $5 a mech than $10.

Grendel hey? Interesting choice. Looks good too. The Man'O'War looks mean!

 Unix wrote:
I’ll need to see what is offered during the Kickstarter, but right now it looks to me like it’s going to be a glorified pre-order.

Like most miniature Kickstarters. *shrugs*

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Unix wrote:
I’ll need to see what is offered during the Kickstarter, but right now it looks to me like it’s going to be a glorified pre-order.

Like most miniature Kickstarters. *shrugs*

You’re right like most. I’ve done a couple dozen kickstarters in my time so I know how they break down and there are plenty I’ve passed on because they were effectively a 20% discount on retail. The language being used by this one so far suggests that the stretch goals will be purchasable options, as opposed to there being an “all in” selection with either kickstarter exclusive stuff (which I never really expected from this) or a rising discount as more stuff gets added.

 Albertorius wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o

I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.

and if every design was perfect the game would have maybe a dozen mechs tops.

Alhtough nothing justifies the ER PPC with 10 SHS designs

Hey, maybe the designer was fond of saunas

Don't question the bipedal onsen.

 Mmmpi wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o

I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.

and if every design was perfect the game would have maybe a dozen mechs tops.

Alhtough nothing justifies the ER PPC with 10 SHS designs

Hey, maybe the designer was fond of saunas

Don't question the bipedal onsen.

.. I love how you instantly knew I was thinking of the Panther

Well, the 10K is kinda... notorious

I hope you are not trying to disrespect a honored product of the Dragon, otherwise the guys from the ISF might want a word with you.

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:
I hope you are not trying to disrespect a honored product of the Dragon, otherwise the guys from the ISF might want a word with you.

M.

Panther 10K, CGR-1A1 the Daboku... yup the combine's certainly know for quality mech design!

Let's not forget that my beloved CC dropped enough armor in the Charger to add a Large Laser. That's quality mech design too!

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:
Let's not forget that my beloved CC dropped enough armor in the Charger to add a Large Laser. That's quality mech design too!

M.

the fluff justification for that is hilarious. Apparently they use the design to punish dissidant soldiers...

yes they punish dissidant soldiers by giving them an ASSAULT MECH and deliberatly sabotoging it. This ladies and gentlemen is why the FedSuns won the 4th sucession war.

Honestly, I love that kinda wacky stuff ^^

BrianDavion wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:
Let's not forget that my beloved CC dropped enough armor in the Charger to add a Large Laser. That's quality mech design too!

M.

the fluff justification for that is hilarious. Apparently they use the design to punish dissidant soldiers...

yes they punish dissidant soldiers by giving them an ASSAULT MECH and deliberatly sabotoging it. This ladies and gentlemen is why the FedSuns won the 4th sucession war.

Probably it was a Ceres Metals exec covering his ass when the marketed product failed to live to the expectations.

And that's also a great thing from the Btech fluff.

M.

 Unix wrote:
I’ll need to see what is offered during the Kickstarter, but right now it looks to me like it’s going to be a glorified pre-order. Considering that the other intro box is $80 with 8 mechs (before discount) $50 is really high for 5 mechs during a kickstarter by a company that has produced figures of mixed quality and has had logistics issues regarding supply and shipping in the past. I want to be excited about this, but it’s going to really need to make money sense. I don’t need them to go insane with what they offer, but I need it to be much closer to $5 a mech than $10.

The value for the main box does look low compared to the A Game of Armored Combat. For now.

Something to consider is that those shots they posted do not show the back of the box, nor do they show the diecut cardboard sheet. Both of those are difficult to change if Catalyst has already developed the product, which I'm inclined to think they have, based off of the pictures of lances and Stars in retail packaging. So my conspiracy theory is that some of their planned stretch goals will be additions to the retail version of this box. I predict by the end it'll be up to 8 mechs to make the price per mech match the Game of Armored Combat.

Well, if they're going for "fieldable" units there shoud be either one or two stars in the box.