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Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

stato wrote:


As always though, if you dont like the rules and its making you not buy things or questions choices, email them and let them know.


My feedback is far too valuable to be given for free in a direct manner. My wallet does the rest of the talking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 FrozenDwarf wrote:
stato wrote:
I think its more simple why there is no separate sprue. Its a very large expensive model so number sold will be much lower than other titans, so how many sprues are they going to sell? how many would they need to make, store in multiple warehouses. We also know that to price it equivalently to other titan sprues it would likely be £35-40, would people buying the titan just as a centrepiece pay that? They could have put both sprues in the box at the start and just charged £120 for the titan, would people have been happier then? I think most people who bought it would have bought it at that price anyway HA! maybe they missed an opportunity.

As always though, if you dont like the rules and its making you not buy things or questions choices, email them and let them know.


word feedback dont make a dent difference, i tryed with imperialis and 40k 8th. the only thing they will notice is poor sales.
sadly too many GW players are too loyal towards GW even if things are wrong.


8th ed was bad, so I stopped playing. The lack of sales from me speaks just fine. Furthermore, when 40k 8th came out, did a couple battle reports, couldn't hide how god awful it was and just stopped making battle reports for 40k. Move on to 30k, something they'll probably destroy soon too.


Also, emailing them and giving the benefit of the doubt that this is all a mistake to be clarified would be speak to an ignorance on my part, this isn't a mistake, that's obvious to see, this is deliberate. They want to sell more 200 kits than sprues. They could have just stopped at not selling the sprues separately, but they went one further and codified it in the rules. That's no longer something that can said be a mistake, it's positively transparent in its self interest. And it just comes off as spiteful on GW's part.

This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2021/11/03 09:19:03


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





stato wrote:
I think its more simple why there is no separate sprue. Its a very large expensive model so number sold will be much lower than other titans, so how many sprues are they going to sell? how many would they need to make, store in multiple warehouses. We also know that to price it equivalently to other titan sprues it would likely be £35-40, would people buying the titan just as a centrepiece pay that? They could have put both sprues in the box at the start and just charged £120 for the titan, would people have been happier then? I think most people who bought it would have bought it at that price anyway HA! maybe they missed an opportunity.

As always though, if you dont like the rules and its making you not buy things or questions choices, email them and let them know.


Have they said there won't be separate sprue?

Warlord and reaver got separate sprues but at later point. I don't see why the GW would stray from pattern. They want to sell full price box first before putting sprue separately.

2022 painted/bought: 227/322 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





The Iconoclast has also been delayed for undisclosed reasons. It is possible that Warhammer Community got it wrong and the Iconoclast was meant to release a little later alongside the separate weapon sprues.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block




SamusDrake wrote:
The Iconoclast has also been delayed for undisclosed reasons. It is possible that Warhammer Community got it wrong and the Iconoclast was meant to release a little later alongside the separate weapon sprues.


Its still available to pre-order in many regions, as per the community article (dont know if this was a later update but it mentions where its available to order). Who knows why, perhaps they shipped out too many to the regions and are making more for EU, or region based stock got shipped out ages ago and EU based stock didnt get its container of boxes/rules delivered in time.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Aren't the rules the most easily fixed part of the game? I mean, it's not like the models don't work if you change the rules to suit your liking.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 Nurglitch wrote:
Aren't the rules the most easily fixed part of the game? I mean, it's not like the models don't work if you change the rules to suit your liking.


"Hello potential new opponent, I hope you don't mind I wrote my own rules for this 200$ model for the game we both have 200$ worth of rulebooks for."

That says nothing of the fact that this is being asked in the face of a new 60$ rulebook being released.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/04 05:57:56


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Presumably you do the same for your Battlebling models.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

Is the iconoclast the same size as a warlord or is it like 40k Castellan knight sized? Where dies it stand vs an imperator?
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 Nurglitch wrote:
Presumably you do the same for your Battlebling models.


Nope, which is why this is costing them a sale too. Battle bling's genius is in offering variety, for example I have a giant warlord mace and a warlord head from them. The mace I just run as a count as warlord power claw. No one is looking to battle bling for rules, a lot of the alternatives they offer have rules that already exist for like people playing epic.

Spoiler:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 doktor_g wrote:
Is the iconoclast the same size as a warlord or is it like 40k Castellan knight sized? Where dies it stand vs an imperator?


Bigger than a warlord but same base.

Spoiler:


This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/11/04 06:04:04


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

Thank you.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Crablezworth wrote:
Nope, which is why this is costing them a sale too. Battle bling's genius is in offering variety, for example I have a giant warlord mace and a warlord head from them. The mace I just run as a count as warlord power claw. No one is looking to battle bling for rules, a lot of the alternatives they offer have rules that already exist for like people playing epic.

What I mean is, you have converted models and they look great, so presumably people are just fine playing with you, and it's not a huge fuss to tweak the game to your liking. I mean, is there some unfair advantage to mixing the Warmaster and the Iconoclast weapons? Or is it just because you can't but the different bits separately to save a few bucks?
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 Nurglitch wrote:

What I mean is, you have converted models and they look great, so presumably people are just fine playing with you, and it's not a huge fuss to tweak the game to your liking. I mean, is there some unfair advantage to mixing the Warmaster and the Iconoclast weapons? Or is it just because you can't but the different bits separately to save a few bucks?


People only tolerate it because they know it's count as, ie just an alternate model, not my own made up rules. And honestly using the example of the mace, it works pretty well as a warlord fist, it has 3 balls/morning stars and the fist just so happens to have 3 S12 attacks and it's concussive. This doesn't confuse any opponent. Me showing up with my own made up rules would though. It's a big ask for my opponent, just as it's a big ask from GW or apologists because it's being asked in the face of the release of a 200$ model and 60$ rulebook, for a game I've already got hundreds of dollars of rulebooks. The sunk cost fallacy doesn't make me an apologist, it makes me angry that they devalue what I've currently invested when they deviate from a core game mechanic (modular weaponry).

I own a warmaster, a regular opponent also owns a warmaster, we've had a few games, they're ok but obviously the games are much higher point level. When we saw the new warmaster coming out, it at least both gave us some confidence in a purchase we haven't used a tonne that GW was supporting this crazy big titan and we may have a reason to run them again soon, because we could both try new loadouts. That didn't happen sadly, and it's basically made neither of us want an iconoclast because there isn't any interest in having to build a second warmaster, let alone be forced to run it pure CC loadout.

I'm all for people writing scenarios or agreeing collectively to not play certain units that result in unbalanced games, or similarly agree to both take x unit infrequently or with some transparency. But just straight up home brew rules for units and core game stuff just doesn't really work for me, This also all isn't happening in a vacuum in terms of the game advancing, the traitor book also bring in new universal wargear i would assume, also traitor wargear and then add to that corruption/mutations and warmaster level titans being able to take up to 4 mutations, so that's also why I'm hesitant to just allow the iconoclast to swap weapons, because GW has embedded this in the rules, there may be other reasons for doing so, ie wargear/upgrades/mutations that really complicate things if you mix and match. We'll know soon enough either way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/04 15:48:33


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Make sense.
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




@swap:

I don't know ... the Iconoclast is also called "Warmaster". That would mean that the "normal" Warmaster may RAW perhaps not be able to use Iconoclast weapons, but the Iconoclast can use the "normal" Warmaster weapons. Since the terminals are the same, that doesn't make any sense. I think you can swap.

Regardless, a close combat warmaster with gattlings makes absolutely no sense
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

habedekrai37 wrote:
@swap:

I don't know ... the Iconoclast is also called "Warmaster". That would mean that the "normal" Warmaster may RAW perhaps not be able to use Iconoclast weapons, but the Iconoclast can use the "normal" Warmaster weapons. Since the terminals are the same, that doesn't make any sense. I think you can swap.

Regardless, a close combat warmaster with gattlings makes absolutely no sense


For people straight up just building models, do your thing, for people playing the game, we can't even talk solutions until we have the new book in hand. And in my mind the fix has to come from GW.

I agree the gattling would be way cooler on the normal warmaster.

As for just deciding you can swap, literally every card but the reactor card says iconoclast on it. Even the terminal just says iconoclast titan.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/04 15:53:36


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

And what is stopping you??? One word, seems easy to rectify.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

Racerguy180 wrote:
And what is stopping you??? One word, seems easy to rectify.


Not before an entire new book drops that has ramifications to changes one may choose to make. There are new wargear and a warmaster scaled titan can have like 4 mutations, so ya, still need everything in front of you if one is going to endeavor to fix this. Much better if GW did it.

Also, what's stopping me is having to deal with this to begin with, this act cost them a sale of at the very least a sprue they seemingly aren't intent on releasing seperately, but going further and codifying it in the rules was arrogant goes incredibly against the core mechanic of one of their most praised games. That being modular weaponry. They did this (GW), the amount of apologetics through deflection for an error on the part of the company selling and not its player base is bizarre.

So the "this seems like an easy fix" has two problems, one, it remains to be seen, ie after the traitor book comes out. Two, that's a massive ask in face of the premium prices and increasing arrogance from gw. Deflect away, it's not helping the game to ignore them changing the deal so to speak.

Hell for what it's worth, they're not even gouging appropriately, they could be releasing cards and premium terminals for these big titans like they have for other titans, but that's not apparently a priority. The modular nature of the game is clearly posing a problem for GW because they know third parties can swoop in with solutions for parts and weapons where gw is lacking, so rather than compete or allow them a space they go straight for the throat, the rules basically. At least that's been the shift with later titan releases, and even the warlord they needed quite a bit of "feedback" before selling the warlord weapon sprues direct.


If one wants more evidence this was done for cynical marketing reasons in addition to financial reasons look no further, they obviously didn't want to send people a weapons srpue to paint. That's understandable, but it doesn't excuse the rules decision.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/04/these-iconoclast-warbringer-titans-are-so-beautiful-you-might-even-forget-to-run-away/?fbclid=IwAR24lCm4YMToylH_hw0eGXHytSm9vExLdf8fT-FhEN6UZjDjoFUwER1PJrU


Look at the copy right from the start: "As a specialised close combat version of the Warmaster chassis, it’s especially popular with Chaos-aligned forces and is a frightening opponent for other Titans of all sizes." I thought us players specialized how our titans fight when we designed their loadouts? Like this is literally thinking from another game, this isn't 30k or 40k, titanicus is about platforms essentially. How the players choose to assemble their battle group and maniples and arm individuals titans and even individual knights, the questoris knight chasis has more options than either of the warmasters. all that customization and specialization is supposed to be the result of player decision. There's no special "close combat" variants of the reaver or warlord, because its up to players to choose how to arm them accordingly. This whole thing pisses me off because it seems like gas lighting, like titanicus always worked this way. And it's done at the expensive of the game and player base to GW's lazy benefit. And again, it's one thing to just not sell the sprue directly, it's another to make them separate entities in the rules entirely. One is an inconvenience, the other is a massive deviation from the baseline standards of core game mechanics and is a very real problem.


Another example, they put a star * when explaining the fluff that it was preffered by traitor legios just so when you get to the bottom of the article you can read "* Devotees of the Emperor need not worry – Loyalist Legios can use it too." Gee, schucks, that was awful kind of them. And again, this is a gas light, every freakin titan and knight released for AT has been available to loyalists and traitors, that's again the core of the game, we're all pulling from the same core units and weapons. Why wouldn't the base assumption be, like with literally every other model, we'd be able to run this titan in our respective battlegroup regardless of allegiance?



And honestly theres' some great looking paint jobs in that article, damn shame we can't swap weapons all the same. But I honestly find the warmaster with both of those cc arms without one arm being a ranged weapon, I find it silly. This corrupted conversion really is the coolest looking model:






This seems to be the page that all but confirms that they can't swap weapons:

https://youtu.be/zwZaAxHGUk0?t=636

It would also seem that what can be read of the fluff pretty much confirms how forced the narrative is on this one...

They go so far to name drop it's two and only two ancillary reactors right in the fluff, so again no cross pollination there.


https://youtu.be/zwZaAxHGUk0?t=224

This message was edited 23 times. Last update was at 2021/11/05 04:35:24


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

Well, when I purchase one(notice I said when) I could care less what GW says about swapping weapons.

Something tells me there are some pretty desperate techpriests during the Heresy..
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

Racerguy180 wrote:
Well, when I purchase one(notice I said when) I could care less what GW says about swapping weapons.

Something tells me there are some pretty desperate techpriests during the Heresy..


Cool, I'd assume you'd go over it with your opponents.










Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

 Crablezworth wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Well, when I purchase one(notice I said when) I could care less what GW says about swapping weapons.

Something tells me there are some pretty desperate techpriests during the Heresy..


Cool, I'd assume you'd go over it with your opponents.



You don't? I also play in a very permissive group, so I can understand those that want official.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

Racerguy180 wrote:
 Crablezworth wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Well, when I purchase one(notice I said when) I could care less what GW says about swapping weapons.

Something tells me there are some pretty desperate techpriests during the Heresy..


Cool, I'd assume you'd go over it with your opponents.



You don't? I also play in a very permissive group, so I can understand those that want official.


Yeah, I'd prefer official.




So without getting into specifics, the traitor book, sorta like the ryza book, really throws a bit of a curveball into things. I like the custom legio rules in ryza, but I totally understood people's trepidations. People are pretty tied to their legios and although some may sorta covet other legios rules, grudgingly ground it out with their own legios rules, in walks custom legios and throws everything on its head. Add to that, not long after cam loyalists book and that saw both loyalist upgrades and universal upgrades. This was great and a well needed expansion for the game, but still left weird incentives between normal legios and custom legios. Anyway, even though it was a loyalist book, both loyalist and traitor legios got some really cool upgrades. Vortex might be a bit strong but cool none the less.

Anyway, fast forward to traitors book. Long awaited rules for corrupted titans. But also traitor titan upgrades and likely more universal upgrades. For narrative, all good, for game balance, it expanding and expanding, I'm excited to see what's possible. But if people were rightfully concerned about the effect of custom legios have on the game, for example, other than dirty looks what prevents players from trying new custom legio configurations every other game? I'm guilty of preferring my custom legio than the one I chose before they had rules and a colour scheme (venator). I've written fluff to justify the traits/upgrades and haven't changed it from game to game.

Without getting into specific examples from the new book, corruption/mutation has its downsides like reducing a titans leadership and an alternate awakened chart, but it also shares one of the issues many of upgrades have in general, the points are often not indexed to scale/titan when it comes to upgrades, so like a warhound or warmaster pay the same for a lot of upgrades. The usual exception to this is some weapon upgrades will have a variable cost based on some factor like the weapons rate of fire (amount of shots) but most of the time most upgrades have a fixed price. This is increasingly a potential issue, only in that, we have the warhound at one end of things at like 180pts plus weapons and you've got warmasters at like 850pts plus weapons at the other end of things. There are situations where 4 out of 5 weapons on a warmaster may be benefitting from a single upgrade, anyway, you can see how if the cost is the same it weights towards the other end of the scale.

Back to mutations, they're essentially just cooler sounding upgrades. Now I'm not diminishing them one bit, there are some really good powerful upgrades/abilities. And as mentioned earlier there are, some, downsides like leadership stuff. The only limit on mutations is titan scale, but it would seem that base mutations don't count towards total so it's basically like 2-5 as the scale goes up if you count the base mutation. So each mutation has a point cost and you can't take any twice on the same titan, but, like with upgrades, one is very free to copy and paste or find some very cynical combination. So what I'm saying is, nothing prevents a traitor player from having every titan have mutations, and seemingly upgrades in addition to mutations, and all of this can of course be done in synergy with the maniple that works best. I'm not saying this is inherently good or bad, just for matched play it's certainly a lot to consider going forward. There's no "tech tree" from base mutation onwards, so its not like you're going with any one chaos god per se, so again one is very very free to make something crazy/nasty/insane. This is all fun but could get out of hands and sorta will.

Here's what I mean, loyalists get some wargear and a psi titan. Traitors get some wargear, and, well, some more wargear, really really good wargear in the form of mutations. Not to by cynical but, as much as I want to imagine everyone converting really awesome chaos/daemonic/corrupted titans, a lot of these mutations are vague enough like with other upgrades that wysisyg is a bit all over the place, add to the fact that we have yet to see anything from GW or forgeworld to indicate mutations will get any kind of model support. I know plenty of people will have no issue whipping up some really cool and well thought out evil titans, but again the line for what needs to be communicated visually and what can go in a list isn't really clear. And that's not all on mutations, its sortof a grey area for titan upgrades in general.

So the concern is that, the mutations aren't really a track like assumed, I thought even if they didn't directly name the chaos gods there'd be sorta like tech trees or mutation paths titans would have to follow. U can really mix and match and that's a double edged sword. It doesn't take many games to figuer out a titan that always counts as 50% cover and thus -2 to hit all the time is a good ability. To keep to a matched play focus, from my understanding one could currently field a custom traitor legio that's made up entirely of mutated titans. Now granted most events aren't really over 2000pts, but one could whip up some pretty silly battlegroups. I don't think allowing psi titans in matched play would do much to fix that much at that point. But take custom legios out for the moment. You still sorta have a disparity between loyalist and traitors, in that traitors can very much customize things, with both upgrades and mutations, loyalist get upgrades and, whether or not a psi titan is allowed in matched play. I guess where I'm going is it'd funny to see the next event have everyone playing traitors

It's a lot to take in, I'm excited for my necrons as the mutations might open up some cool stuff like the custom legio rules did, might prove to be a good testing ground for some of the absurd combination of mutations and upgrades I may conceive of. Just to belabor the point about the iconoclast not being modular like the other titans, GW has shown they can clearly write modular rules with almost too much freedom, so it just seems extra weird to not allow weapon or reactor swaps between warmasters, they've kept everything else modular, even the mutations.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/15 19:05:23


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
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Is the Warmaster/Iconoclast chassis designed to acommodate magnets?
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






Racerguy180 wrote:
Well, when I purchase one(notice I said when) I could care less what GW says about swapping weapons.

Something tells me there are some pretty desperate techpriests during the Heresy..


Thing about house rules is, it will never be agreed upon. If official everyone has to follow it.
There is a difference between converting a powerfist cus it is for looks only, in terms of the game it is still a powerfist, and making brand new weaponry and equipment rules that officialy do not exist.

For now, it is a shot off the bow for the game, if the next titan release do not go back to a fully modular platform with all options avalible for both sides, then game has gone the way of corperate greed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/05 14:42:02


darkswordminiatures.com
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Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Well, when I purchase one(notice I said when) I could care less what GW says about swapping weapons.

Something tells me there are some pretty desperate techpriests during the Heresy..


Thing about house rules is, it will never be agreed upon. If official everyone has to follow it.
There is a difference between converting a powerfist cus it is for looks only, in terms of the game it is still a powerfist, and making brand new weaponry and equipment rules that officialy do not exist.
That is a very blanket statement.

We have had zero problems agreeing on stuff like this. Rule of Cool and not being a dick with the rules/pts costs wins and when it doesn't, no biggie.

Once again, just cuz somethings official doesn't automatically make it good... isn't the point of this to talk about how GW messed up with the weapon restrictions/allowances. I just brought up the fact that it will not impact my group.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

Racerguy180 wrote:
 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Well, when I purchase one(notice I said when) I could care less what GW says about swapping weapons.

Something tells me there are some pretty desperate techpriests during the Heresy..


Thing about house rules is, it will never be agreed upon. If official everyone has to follow it.
There is a difference between converting a powerfist cus it is for looks only, in terms of the game it is still a powerfist, and making brand new weaponry and equipment rules that officialy do not exist.
That is a very blanket statement.

We have had zero problems agreeing on stuff like this. Rule of Cool and not being a dick with the rules/pts costs wins and when it doesn't, no biggie.

Once again, just cuz somethings official doesn't automatically make it good... isn't the point of this to talk about how GW messed up with the weapon restrictions/allowances. I just brought up the fact that it will not impact my group.


It impacts mine heavily, thanks. "I live in a utopia where everyone agrees all the time" great, I don't, the point is now moot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Nurglitch wrote:
Is the Warmaster/Iconoclast chassis designed to acommodate magnets?


Well yeah but best to just ignore them





Ok so here's a problem I can see coming a mile out. I mentioned in the rumour thread some of the potential issues with mutations.

TL;DR not everyone liked custom legios, but now, now with traitors getting more love than loyalists, it's going to be hard for tournament or event organizers to say no to custom legios, because loyalists have that or a psi titan, traitors have like a laundry list of upgrades. This also isn't simple because obviously one could do a custom traitor legio AND still throw down dozens of upgrades.

But it is funny, in that you can make some very strong legios with custom legio rules, it's essentially 2 traits and 2 unique upgrades (u can do unique strats but there's less incentive) so it'd be weird to say no to that, but then allow traitors to take literally dozens of upgrades. All loyalists get is a psi titan,

Something that may now see more events allowing, but that's not much of a consolation, and I'm not trying to diminish psi titans at all, they're incredibly good. But again, mentally balance it in your head, loyalist legios get acces to 1 special super good titan, traitors can field entire battlegroups of them,


The other issue tied to this is, with the trend very quickly going to be that mutations are just like upgrades and barely every need to be modelled in anyway, how is this not sorta going to form a race to the bottom without some limitations? I understand these do cost points, but assuming 1750-2000pts, people will have the points to spend. And honestly, this does a number to knights because I'm often taking them as point filler towards the end of the list, if the trend becomes sacking a unit that is very 50/50 in game and buffing all other titans, I dunno. It's not that loyalists don't have upgrades, but it's definitely not on the level of traitors. The base mutations don't even count for the total they can have so like even a warhound can have 3 mutations AND upgrades, a warmaster can basically have 5 total, plus upgrades.

All of this is also leading the game away from wysiwyg territory with weapons and stuff all clearly displayed on models and terminals towards a lot of abstraction. I'm a very visual guy, a lot of the visual information in wargaming is also sort of a pneumonic device. Some of the examples of corrupted titans in the goonhammer article saw them having like 4-5 things added on between upgrades and mutations, the reaver example almost doubling in cost. I know these are just examples and they're just trying to show what's possible. For me my thoughts bounced heavily back and forth, in both cases I thought, if this was one titan in a battlegroup of mostly non corrupted titans, almost like a special character titan, and it was actually converted, possibly even in a way that communicates or helps people remember some of its mutations and or what they do, it'd be interesting. But if it's a whole battlegroup of normal looking traitor titans kitted out to the 9's with a lengthy list of mutations, like man, I find stratagems that involve secrecy stressful enough for the quality of the game. So I'm not worried about tightly knit gaming groups navigating this with the rule cool, I am concerned about matched play, organized events and making this all work without the game going down a direction that is less than ideal.

It's still really funny how modular the mutations are for the most part, considering the whole iconoclast screw up, it stands out even more now considering how much creative freedom gamers have to come up with different configurations of mutations. But like, we're going to see some eye rolling from all sides, that's just a fact. It's coming if not here already. I'll give you an example, one of the very strong mutations let's a titan basically swap its carapace weapon on the fly for one of equal or lesser value. This happens in the command phase instead of an order. As zach points out in the goonhammer article, that means you could switch from laser blasters to gatling blasters on a warlord is a big deal. So to that point, how many times are people going to love encountering that? Especially without some cool ass conversion with a bunch of different weapons all mashed together like obliterators. But I'll ask again how many times are people going to be ok encountering that? I mean that both like per game but also within it, to my point earlier where it'd be one thing on a like 1 off cool conversion in a list of normal traitor titans, but like, every titan could theoretically have this mutation in 1 list. I don't see this going anywhere good and for once its not just a rule issue but a rule of cool/fluff issue too. I'm not worried about the narrative groups, but matched play is going to need to figure this one out.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/11/05 19:27:05


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






Racerguy180 wrote:
 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Well, when I purchase one(notice I said when) I could care less what GW says about swapping weapons.

Something tells me there are some pretty desperate techpriests during the Heresy..


Thing about house rules is, it will never be agreed upon. If official everyone has to follow it.
There is a difference between converting a powerfist cus it is for looks only, in terms of the game it is still a powerfist, and making brand new weaponry and equipment rules that officialy do not exist.
That is a very blanket statement.

We have had zero problems agreeing on stuff like this. Rule of Cool and not being a dick with the rules/pts costs wins and when it doesn't, no biggie.

Once again, just cuz somethings official doesn't automatically make it good... isn't the point of this to talk about how GW messed up with the weapon restrictions/allowances. I just brought up the fact that it will not impact my group.


Then you have a dream club and should stay with it until it is no more.

darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
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Clubs like that don't just happen, they're cultivated.
   
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Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

 Nurglitch wrote:
Clubs like that don't just happen, they're cultivated.


When I got back into gaming my local store was almost exclusively tourney type lists. After actually playing and talking with them, many had never thought of narrative/open war type games. After playing some unbalanced, narrative scenarios, they actually figured out they don't always NEED to bring every cheesy combo out there or go 100% by the book. A few still only play tourney type lists as that's what they want to focus on. For others we started a cities of death campaign and only thanks to nurgle-19 we had to stop.

Now this is mostly in regards to 40k but out of the 10 people that play Titanticus only one doesn't play 40k.
   
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Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

Racerguy180 wrote:
 Nurglitch wrote:
Clubs like that don't just happen, they're cultivated.


When I got back into gaming my local store was almost exclusively tourney type lists. After actually playing and talking with them, many had never thought of narrative/open war type games. After playing some unbalanced, narrative scenarios, they actually figured out they don't always NEED to bring every cheesy combo out there or go 100% by the book. A few still only play tourney type lists as that's what they want to focus on. For others we started a cities of death campaign and only thanks to nurgle-19 we had to stop.

Now this is mostly in regards to 40k but out of the 10 people that play Titanticus only one doesn't play 40k.




Well how do you think your group will handle mutations>? Will there be a requirement to convert in some way or will it be a sea of shining traitor titans with invisible upgrades? I totally get proxying stuff to try and it and weirdness with upgrades and modelling stuff preceding it. But it still seems like its gonna be an issue for narrative and matched play alike.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/06 01:00:16


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

I'm confident that mutations will be modeled in some way. It's actually one of the things I'm looking forward to the most. The more esoteric stuff like shields & auras will be a little more challenging, maybe modifying the shield generators with different mutated ones, pustules for nurgle, torrents of blood for khorne, mirrors for tzeentch, piercings for slannesh?
   
 
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