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In that case probably DC lieutenant is the way to go. Blade of Sanguinius is also terrible, so there’s that. Nice thought experiment though.

I'm not sure it's so bad but I probably need more practice. It seems like an easy 10 that I can take in my 3rd slot if there isn't a suitable kill mission.

SirGunslinger wrote:
Yeah, SG need proper handling. I usually start with 2 5s in deepstrike with a chaplain for a total of +3 to charges, and one or two 5s hiding on the table in case I get deepstrike denied hard, and also as a qrf. They really need to hide until it's hammer time or they get vaporized. I'm lucky enough to mostly play on tables with enough terrain to hide them. Seems to me Sanguinary can always be relied on to punch two or three times above their weight class though, so learning to run them is worth it. I've had 10 sanguinary delete 1000 points of Necrons without taking a casualty.

I usually run assault intercessors for skirmishers but I'm going to look into vanvets.

Quick point of order.

The chaplain litany for +2" to charge distance doesn't stack with the +1" innate we get as Blood Angels. It specifically says in the Canticle of Hate that it does not stack with other abilities that add to the charge distance, so you don't get 3", but instead get the 2" bonus instead of the usual 1" bonus.

Also if the chaplain isn't on the board in your command phase (if he's in deep strike), you can't roll for any litanies for that chaplain. So on the turn that chaplain arrives from deep strike, they won't have any chaplain litanies active till your next command phase if you roll them successfully. Just clarifying that point also. The only way to get +2" to charge distance on the is to land within the 6" bubble of the chaplain's aura who was already on the field at the command phase and successfully rolled 3+ on his litany for canticle of hate.

Just wanted to make sure this was noted. I don't want you to be doing something incorrectly in your games on accident.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Correct

I realized the Canticle of hate doesn’t stack like 2 days after writing that. Yeah, I may have pulled off some long bomb charges I shouldn’t have.

It is still possible to get canticle of hate off by popping inspiring oratory in the charge phase, that one at least I have been getting right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I run my chaplain as a master of sanctity with the warlord trait so it is only 1CP since I use it pretty much every turn he is alive for guaranteed extra litany. Litany of Hate + Mantra of Strength + guaranteed canticle of hate makes my Sanguinary a whole lot of fun and make the chaplain very scary as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Blade is something the other guy can just say no to. Everyone has a disposable character, they just put it on him, put him in reserves for the whole game. They get to pick who accepts the challenge.

SirGunslinger wrote:
I realized the Canticle of hate doesn’t stack like 2 days after writing that. Yeah, I may have pulled off some long bomb charges I shouldn’t have.

It is still possible to get canticle of hate off by popping inspiring oratory in the charge phase, that one at least I have been getting right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I run my chaplain as a master of sanctity with the warlord trait so it is only 1CP since I use it pretty much every turn he is alive for guaranteed extra litany. Litany of Hate + Mantra of Strength + guaranteed canticle of hate makes my Sanguinary a whole lot of fun and make the chaplain very scary as well.

Gotcha, right on. I had forgotten about Inspiring Oratory here myself. Good call! I haven't been able to play at all lately due to family and work stuff keeping me busy constantly. I lurk here and list build and occasionally paint when there's a few minutes free for me to do so.

I run Lemartes as my lone Chaplain, with my Captain, and/or Sanguinary Priest running along with my Sanguinary Guard for buffs. I also generally run a jump pack Librarian for buffs, typically general librarius powers, for the 5++ invuln aura and veil of time. It's worked well so far.

Appreciate it, and take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree also, Blade isn't very good unless you happen to be playing someone with just one character, and the odds of that happening are nil.

-Red__Thirst-

I experimented with the 5+ invulnerable librarian for my sanguinary and he made them a good deal more survivable, but I ended up preferring a Librarian dreadnought to smash things instead of a librarian person to buff.

SirGunslinger wrote:
I realized the Canticle of hate doesn’t stack like 2 days after writing that. Yeah, I may have pulled off some long bomb charges I shouldn’t have.

It is still possible to get canticle of hate off by popping inspiring oratory in the charge phase, that one at least I have been getting right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I run my chaplain as a master of sanctity with the warlord trait so it is only 1CP since I use it pretty much every turn he is alive for guaranteed extra litany. Litany of Hate + Mantra of Strength + guaranteed canticle of hate makes my Sanguinary a whole lot of fun and make the chaplain very scary as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Blade is something the other guy can just say no to. Everyone has a disposable character, they just put it on him, put him in reserves for the whole game. They get to pick who accepts the challenge.

Umm no check the faq they can put it on a the disposable character keep it in reserve and I score 15vp. They have to board it their turn 3 which gives you 2-3 turns to kill it and we are highly mobile and given 75% of our army is melee its quite difficult to stop it scoreing 10 in all but the most defensive builds

Gotcha. I didn’t see that faq. That makes things interesting.

Hi guys! I would like to start play Blood Angels in 9th Edition. I decided to play heavily melee army. I have played couple times my Drukhari army, but it was not a nice experience. Can you advise me what should i buy for the first time? I have never played any Space Marines army in the past.

Stay well away from the discount boxes they tend to give you bad units

Decide if your planning to play defensively in a midboard castle

Or offensively in a scattered msu


You will want two characters as a starter a defensive list probably wants a bike captain with thunderhammer and storm shield and a sanguinary priest

An offensive list will probably go for a terminator or jump pack captain with thunderhammer but may exchange the storm shield for combi melta and probably a bike chaplain or astorath

Next you'll want 3 troops the defensive lot will want to mix infiltrators and incursors the offensive intercessors and assault intercessors but you cant really go wrong which ever primaris you put in the troop slot

A defensive army probably wants some eliminators plasma inceptor or hellblasters along with one or 2 redemptors or leviathan looking at about 25% of your army. For offensive I would be considering land speeder storms or a whirlwind for their utility strats with less firepower and a company champion

For the core of your army your looking at sanguinary guard vanguard veterans with storm shield and lightning claw and assault terminators

You can take extra characters but I wouldn't go above 4

U02dah4 wrote:
Stay well away from the discount boxes they tend to give you bad units

Decide if your planning to play defensively in a midboard castle

Or offensively in a scattered msu


You will want two characters as a starter a defensive list probably wants a bike captain with thunderhammer and storm shield and a sanguinary priest

An offensive list will probably go for a terminator or jump pack captain with thunderhammer but may exchange the storm shield for combi melta and probably a bike chaplain or astorath

Next you'll want 3 troops the defensive lot will want to mix infiltrators and incursors the offensive intercessors and assault intercessors but you cant really go wrong which ever primaris you put in the troop slot

A defensive army probably wants some eliminators plasma inceptor or hellblasters along with one or 2 redemptors or leviathan looking at about 25% of your army. For offensive I would be considering land speeder storms or a whirlwind for their utility strats with less firepower and a company champion

For the core of your army your looking at sanguinary guard vanguard veterans with storm shield and lightning claw and assault terminators

You can take extra characters but I wouldn't go above 4

I'll mention this in passing because I just recently stumbled upon it while list-building.

I have hit upon a 'utility' captain build that I really like. It's different, and can be tweaked a few different directions to suit personal taste. I'll be building out a model for it later on but on paper here's the build.

Blood Angels Captain with a Jump Pack
Wargear: Relic Blade, Storm Shield, Bolt Pistol. I run the Visage of Death relic mask to give him -1 to hit in melee to aid survivability and it also turns off the enemy objective secured within 3". (Which is just fun IMO).
He's ST:7 with his sword, AP:-3, 2 damage, with a 2+/4++ save with -1 to hit in melee.

Now we get to the interesting part. I opt to use the WL trait Artisan of war, and Master-Craft the relic blade, giving it D:3, just like a thunder hammer but with AP:3 and no -1 to hit. I then use the stratagem to give my Captain a second WL trait, choosing The Emperor's Sword from the core marine book, giving him +1 ST (Relic blade is now ST:8) & a bonus attack on the charge, along with re-roll charge rolls. This build hits really hard, and has decent staying power in close combat. He swings six time on the charge, or seven times with Savage Echos active in the assault doctrine, at WS:2+, ST:8, AP:-3 and 3 Damage per attack with the ubiquitous +1 to wound we enjoy, meaning you're wounding most everything on a 2+. That's 18 potential damage, or 21 potential damage if you're in Assault Doctrine.

There are a few different options to choose from on this, depending on your preferences. You can go for a little less raw damage output and not master-craft the relic blade and instead give him adamantine mantle with artisan of war to net a 5+++ feel no pain for added staying power.

Or you can omit the storm shield for a ranged weapon and use artisan of war to give him artificer armor which will still give you a 2+ armor save and a 4++ from the Iron Halo. This is the least 'good' option for me, because you lose out on the D:3 relic blade to gain a pistol or combi-weapon, which you may only get to fire once or twice in a game.

Just some musings from me. Hopefully folks find them interesting, at least.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

There's nothing wrong with that build but you might get more out of the TH SS terminator cpt. You get an extra point of armour cheaper cost the +1 to hit from the terminator strat negating the the -1 to hit this lets you now trade 1AP fir a 4th dam although personally I would swap artisan for gift of foresight as its both a defensive and offensive buff.
Sure you lose out on movement but for the utility build your often dropping at the front line so movement is less important

I thought I shared my current 5-0 list with you. There is room for improvement and I hope you'll point em out to me, but my gaming group insisted I'd share this over here..



Like / or dislike?

I love it when a winning list is also fluffy. Like yes, sanguinary priest, death company, sanguinary guard, jump packs (even inceptors count here), assault intercessors, this is why you play Blood Angels.

New to BA. Trying to decide on a list to build toward.

Can you gents help me out? Here is what im currently looking at:

Patrol Detachment [535pts]

Librarian Dreadnought [155pts]: Meltagun
Sanguinary Priest [105pts]: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Warlord Teeth of Terra

Incursor Squad [115pts]: 5man, Haywire Mine

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [160pts]: Twin ironhail autocannon


Vanguard Detachment -3CP [1,463pts]

Captain in Terminator Armour [120pts]: Combi-melta, Icon of The Angel, Thunder hammer
Primaris Chaplain on Bike [140pts]: Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Imperium's Sword, Benediction of Fury

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [180pts] 5 man, Neo-volkite pistol
Company Champion [70pts]: Chapter Command: Chapter Champion, The Shield Eternal, Martial Exemplar
Death Company Marines [150pts]: 5 man, Jump Packs, one with THammer, one with Power Axe and Inferno Pistol
Sanguinary Guard [215pts] 7 man, Axes, one Inferno pistol
Vanguard Veteran Squad [198pts]: 7 man, Jump Packs, 5 LC/SS, 1 Twin LC, Sgt Relic Blade/Bolt Pistol, Quake Bolts

Inceptor Squad [220pts]:4 man, Plasma

Whirlwind Scorpius [170pts]

Total: [1,998pts]


Strategy:
Incursors start on Objective upfield somehwere
Bladeguard, Company Champ, Sang Priest move up midfield
Whirlwind hides in the back on objective

Attempted first turn charges from DC, Libby Dread, Invictor

Captain comes in with Inceptors for rerolls

Chappy on bike is mobile buffer and beatstick. Supporting the JP infantry.



Please let me know how far off base I am here.

I wouldn't use the skorpius it can't use the stratagem that makes whirlwinds broken

Drop a character you don't want 5 it offers max assassinate

and by dropping an hq it allows you to move the remaining patrol units into your vanguard if you add two troops you now have a battalion this saves you 3cp

As to relic/ warlord traits

Currently your Sanguinary priest doesn't have a warlord trait despite being a warlord meanwhile you have relics on 4 models which isn't possible at most you can have relics on 3 wl on 3 with a double wl on your warlord

Its a little arbitrary which character to get rid of but if it were me I would ditch the sanguinary priest make the terminator captain your warlord and give it gift of foresight and then maybe artisan of war as a second warlord trait to master craft the thunder hammer to make him a beat stick

I'd remove the random single inferno pistols

Deleting the sanguinary priest and swapping skorpius for Whirlwind and random single infernos saved you 160 prs and 190 -200 adds two units of assault intercessors or intercessors so maybe 1 sanguinary guard model goes or 1 blade guard.

I'm also not a fan of the Invictor its just outclassed by the redemptor its fun but its not reliable

Doing what U02Dah4 said (though I would drop chaplain until they nerf Chief Apothecary because BGV+Apo=gold) would also let you combined into a single Battalion, giving you the extra CP for your Whirlwind and other stuff.

U02dah4 wrote:
I wouldn't use the skorpius it can't use the stratagem that makes whirlwinds broken

Drop a character you don't want 5 it offers max assassinate

and by dropping an hq it allows you to move the remaining patrol units into your vanguard if you add two troops you now have a battalion this saves you 3cp

As to relic/ warlord traits

Currently your Sanguinary priest doesn't have a warlord trait despite being a warlord meanwhile you have relics on 4 models which isn't possible at most you can have relics on 3 wl on 3 with a double wl on your warlord

Its a little arbitrary which character to get rid of but if it were me I would ditch the sanguinary priest make the terminator captain your warlord and give it gift of foresight and then maybe artisan of war as a second warlord trait to master craft the thunder hammer to make him a beat stick

I'd remove the random single inferno pistols

Deleting the sanguinary priest and swapping skorpius for Whirlwind and random single infernos saved you 160 prs and 190 -200 adds two units of assault intercessors or intercessors so maybe 1 sanguinary guard model goes or 1 blade guard.

I'm also not a fan of the Invictor its just outclassed by the redemptor its fun but its not reliable

Good points, I must have miscounted on the relics.

Questions:

I figured the Inferno pistols might maybe help with the lack of anti-tank. I guess they arent useful?
Better suggestion?

If i drop the Invictor, should I buff the DC to keep a decent T1 threat with the Libby Dread?

Its not that they arn't usefull its just that 1 on its own doesn't make much difference its to unreliable - 1 shot missing a 3rd of the time wounding big vehicles/monsters half the time doing an avg 3.5 dam and thats assuming your target doesn't have an invul -you want a whole squad to have them which is an expensive upgrade but gives you meaningful shooting or none and stay pts efficient.

I like the libby dread your DC is probably strong enough although all power weapons isn't a terrible idea. The thing with DC is that if your forlorning them up the table T1 your hitting a screen now that can be really useful for clearing a hole for your deeostrikers but overkill doesn't help and adding even a 6th model doubles the CP cost

Is anyone playing FT if so how are you handling relics. I started a YMDC thread on the issue but not getting much of a response

For some melee based anti armour/monster maybe a smashlain? A Primaris chaplain on bike with the relic crozius, mantra of strength litany, imperiums sword warlord trait, with the psychic power cast on him that gives plus one to attacks strength and toughness in the assault phase when charging or being charged would give you 9 str 9 attacks that hit on 2s wound anything T8 and under on 2s at -3 ap and at 4 damage. This is all on a T6 7W 3+ 4++ model.

Ive been working on my BA lists for a while and I've broken it down into two two different builds I'm 3/4 finished painting them both which should I focus on and should I make any changes

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/797572.page

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/797573.page

U02dah4 wrote:
Ive been working on my BA lists for a while and I've broken it down into two two different builds I'm 3/4 finished painting them both which should I focus on and should I make any changes

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/797572.page

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/797573.page

I was curious if you have had the opportunity to playtest either of this lists since posting this. Which secondaries are you gunning for with either list? My first thought with dread heavy list is that it might be missing enough "cheap" trading pieces with obsec to play the primary mission consistently well. I prefer the relative balance of the other list for that reason.

One other question about the Terminator Captain in Dread list - is he in there to hand out re-rolls to the dreads or will he be trying to get into the mix? On paper he looks an awkward match for supporting speedy Vanguard Vets or Sang Guard with jump packs.

Unfortunately no its 3 weeks till covid restrictions are lifted in my country and I'm able to play again).

The board control list is clearer on the mission front

Basic missions - (unless obvious kill mission)

Blade of Sanguinius ( Captain)
Oaths of moment
Relentless assault

The dreadnought list feels like a stronger combination of units but it is definitely less good at playing the mission and I need more practice to select them well

As to the terminator captain in the dreadnought list its always going to deploy in deepstrike whether it comes down with vanguard or Sanguinary guard really depends on my opponent list maybe it's dropping to provide reroll charges and take an objective maybe it's trying to hit a large target it's very situational. However with the fury of the first strat and a reroll hit and wound its a pretty strong unit

What do people think re: troop choices for Blood Angels? Lean into melee with Assault Intercessors? Use Incursors or Infiltrators to claim the midfield early? Use regular or heavy Intercessors for backfield camping? Tac squads for the heavy/special weapons?

I’m working on a Lamenters army and have lots of units at my disposal but I’m wondering what to work on first, for best effect. Planning to use plenty of smashy characters, Bladeguard, Sang guard, and VVs for my melee.

 Porphyrius wrote:
What do people think re: troop choices for Blood Angels? Lean into melee with Assault Intercessors? Use Incursors or Infiltrators to claim the midfield early? Use regular or heavy Intercessors for backfield camping? Tac squads for the heavy/special weapons?

They all have some merit to them and I usually take a blend due to points and utility mix.

Incursors - For me, they strike the right balance of affordability and utility. With concealed position, it's nice to have flexibility to claim an midboard objective right off the bat. This helps with scoring domination early. They also have access to smokescreen for additional protection and an alternative to burning transhuman to add durability (or be used in conjunction with if you are really desperate to hold a point). They have native - 1 AP which pairs well with BA savage echoes and red thirst. Most importantly for me, they have access to the guerilla tactics which gives me another unit to quickly redeploy into my opponents deployment zone later in the game to finish out deploy scramblers or boost engage on all fronts, relentless assault or linebreaker or even to claim a late game primary. So much utility.

Infiltrators - trade Incursors CC synergy for more shooting threat, access to even more durability with their pseudo medic, and the ability to spoil your opponents deepstrike plans. For me, wouldn't go big on these guys because they aren't cheap, but a single squad of 5 has its uses.

Intercessors - Okay at clearing chaff. A 5 man with Assault bolt rifles can just about take down 2 10 man guard squads if you want to invest the CP to double shoot and follow up with a charge. Assault bolters give em decent speed advancing and shooting. Decent all around threat range with more strat support than tacticals and enough attacks to beat up on other troops but pretty toothless against more elite infantry without a power weapon on the sarge. Not too pricey.

Assault intercessors - cheap 2w transhuman-able bodies with buckets of attacks in melee and enough AP to cause problems for even elite infantry in Assault doctrine. Benefit from the fact that your opponent can't really avoid sending stuff into the midboard to claim objectives which makes getting them into combat by turn 2 while walking within the realm of possibility. You won't feel bad advancing them because their shooting is negligible. I tend to find them a little too one dimensional as troops and overshadowed by the sheer killing power of our other CC options.

Tacticals - make it in when I want the absolute cheapest access to 10 3+ wounds to sit on a back field point or to trade away on a point at the start of the game when I'm trying to bait out an opponent. The grav cannon and multi-melta heavy weapons sometimes interest me but I just don't really care for -1 to hit on infantry heavy weapons.

Heavy intercessors - too expensive for me. Mediocre in melee. More durable than I've really needed for my backfield campers. Can't use the double shoot strat. My buffing units have more attractive options so they don't get support to maximize their heavier guns. You can buy a squad of 5 of these guys or a squad of 5 Sanguinary Guard...If you play Death Guard every week and need to always play a really cagey and conservative game, maybe??

TLDR:
So for a standard battalion list, usually 2x5 incursors, 1x5 intercessor has given me the tools I need. Swap the intercessor for a barebone tac if I need 10 points for something.

Great write up @Sobie and I 100% agree with your troops selections. I think that is about the right amount. Although I'm sitting 10 intercessors on my home field obj as 5 just don't seem to do much of anything IMHO.

That’s a great write up and exactly the sort of thing I was looking for, thank you so much!

Greetings brothers, I'm new here and I'm between the others, also a Blood Angels player.
Now with the came out of Drukhari how do you set your army for try to fight them?
I figured out we need ti crack their veichels but its so difficult to manage all of those raiders, I know we should kill for one at a times, break It with Fire then charge and try to eliminate passengers but I think we lack option for that.
I'm trying a double team of eradicator, supported by a couple of ATV and a team of 5 inceptor, do you think its enought for the job?
Wich secondary missions you suggest against them?