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Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






PenitentJake wrote:
That's why, for me 3.5 was the best D&D ever. I loved feats and prestige classes. I loved that the open gaming licence gave me hundreds of supplements to choose from- D20 Rokugan!

I agree it's a great edition to be a player in as long as everyone has a grasp on the rules and character building and the social contract is upheld but it's horrid to be a DM. The amount of prep time in 3.X is remarkably higher than any other edition of the game when it comes to building enemy NPCs and Monsters.

d20 Rokugan was neat, but man was the Samurai class in Complete Warrior abominable.

As for waiting 1-2 years for books, again, before 8th sometimes we'd go whole editions without getting a faction update- 2 years is nothing. Don't get me wrong, I hate edition churn too, and I think it's the biggest problem with the game. But I've seen people complain about this, and in the very next line, talk about what they want in 10th edition. The only way this doesn't happen is if we finally get a persistent edition.

For sure, previously some factions would have the same codex for multiple editions. But there was less of a power creep disparity. That's not to say there was no power creep, but not a significant one with a clearly defined haves and have nots.

For instance 8.5 debuts doctrines to reward mono-faction armies and give an alternative to souping. The 9th codexes are giving this to every faction which is to be expected, the problem is you now need to wait your turn in order to free benefits from yet another layer of rules. I don't personally like doctrines / extra rules layers but I can't deny that it's a free upgrade 90% of the time.

I don't think saying "no more talk about 10th edition" will solve the problem. I think the problem can be easily solved if data sheets were available for free online and updated regularly. As I recall AoS and its war scrolls already do this with a pay for premium option.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 The Red Hobbit wrote:

For instance 8.5 debuts doctrines to reward mono-faction armies and give an alternative to souping. The 9th codexes are giving this to every faction which is to be expected, the problem is you now need to wait your turn in order to free benefits from yet another layer of rules. I don't personally like doctrines / extra rules layers but I can't deny that it's a free upgrade 90% of the time.


What is/are the Ork "Doctrines"? I know Marines got free buffs depending on what turn it was, but what did Orkz get?

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






SemperMortis wrote:
Not to defend Karol, but if you play in tournaments they generally don't let you use proxies that often and if you don't have a 100% completely painted army you are automatically losing points.

What beginner is taking a tournament as their first experience of 40k? That was the point being discussed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 16:34:08


 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

For sure, previously some factions would have the same codex for multiple editions. But there was less of a power creep disparity.


*Looks at the 5th edition Tyranid Codex, then looks at the 5th edition IG codex (written by the same author to add salt to the wound)*
*Looks at the early 7th edition dexes, then looks at the 7th edition Necron codex*

Yeah I call BS on that, the power creep disparity was as bad if not worse.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 16:35:52


 
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






SemperMortis wrote:

What is/are the Ork "Doctrines"? I know Marines got free buffs depending on what turn it was, but what did Orkz get?

You are correct, they are now the first 9th ed faction to not get a doctrine equivalent.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 The Red Hobbit wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:

What is/are the Ork "Doctrines"? I know Marines got free buffs depending on what turn it was, but what did Orkz get?

You are correct, they are now the first 9th ed faction to not get a doctrine equivalent.


Or custom subfactions. as is tradition, whenever GW decides "wooooah now, this is getting out of hand we gotta dial it back!!!" they have to do it with the ork codex, nid codex or CSM codex.

in a surprising break from tradition, they did not put out the Eldar codex before the dial-back, but they at least got Marines released into the world with seven layer bean dip rules misery first.

to be completely fair though: As strong as the drukhari codex is, you have to admit there is a HUGE incentive not to take any allies. Giving up PFP is a big freakin' deal for a lot of units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 17:00:39


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 Gert wrote:

What beginner is taking a tournament as their first experience of 40k? That was the point being discussed.


It doesn't have to be a tournament. The 10VP for painting is a basic rule. I said it before I would get the rule more if it was 1VP, a small entice to paint or bonus for a fully painted. But generally crucial in only the most 50/50 games, and I think in those the fully painted army winning is an okey thing to happen. 10VP is a whole secondary. When a new player with his 2000pts army gets told that he now either has to pay comission, learn to speed paint or he will have a huge handicap for the next 6+months, more depending on the force or if his army is finished and doesn't suddenly require an update, a lot of newer players lose interests in w40k. Some even don't start to play it, even guys twice my age, who could probably do afford having a commission done on their army.

Same with proxies. Now everyone here plays with at least parts for models that are recasts. In 4 years I have not seen a fully GW army being played. If the bit costs more then the GW original, like some of the monsters, people don't really care that much. But rhinos as razorbacks may work one time , and probably against a friend. After 1-2 games you are expected to go to Partisan and ask him to sell you those 3-4 towers for your rhinos.

But in general the only people I saw that started their 9th w40k trip with tournaments were old veteran players that quit in 8th or in prior edition. And by tournaments I mean big things, large then a single store community. In store events I have seen people use just bought 1700pts armies with stuff in reserves to be recycled when some of the units on the table die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 the_scotsman wrote:


to be completely fair though: As strong as the drukhari codex is, you have to admit there is a HUGE incentive not to take any allies. Giving up PFP is a big freakin' deal for a lot of units.

Aren't CWE players still souping up DE and harlis, even after the liquifire changes? I think soup lists from them are still popular.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 17:06:15


If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






 the_scotsman wrote:

but they at least got Marines released into the world with seven layer bean dip rules misery first.

Hohohoho this had me cracking up.

to be completely fair though: As strong as the drukhari codex is, you have to admit there is a HUGE incentive not to take any allies. Giving up PFP is a big freakin' deal for a lot of units.

Oh definitely, I understand them wanting to give an incentive to use mono-faction, but there are too many layers of rules for my preferences.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 The Red Hobbit wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:

What is/are the Ork "Doctrines"? I know Marines got free buffs depending on what turn it was, but what did Orkz get?

You are correct, they are now the first 9th ed faction to not get a doctrine equivalent.


From how many obvious mistakes are in the book (Trukk Boyz can't use Trukkz), and how many errors are in the book, I feel like it was a rush job and that they either forgot it or conversely, removed it last minute to hopefully lower the power level. Games-Workshop ork playtesters don't exactly have the world best reputation for what actually works. I will never let reece forget "The Stompa is AMAZING!" .

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

 Grimtuff wrote:
PenitentJake wrote:
USRs would be fine with me, as long as the full text of every one of them appeared on the unit's datacard, because cross reference between multiple books sucks; this is why I hated previous implementations of USRs- the data card would tell you which ones they had... And that's it. Fix that, and I'm all on board for USRs.




Because that doesn't happen in current 40k at all. Nope...

Just do it like WMH did theirs. USRs are all tied to select symbols, which are super easy to memorise as there are only a couple of dozen or so.

Let's look at an example:

(pics)


Another thing to point out with WMH's use of USRs is that things like Combined Attack, Officer, and Stealth are more straightforward as labels and concepts than obtusely-named USRs like Hammer of Wrath, It Will Not Die, or Relentless.

It didn't help that there were tons of similar-sounding or similar-functioning USRs- Rending and Shred did completely different things, and Wrecker and Armourbane are both flavors of 'kills vehicle better'.

A concise and restrained set of USRs designed to integrate into the core rules would be a lot better than the keyword soup it turned into or the 'everything is bespoke but not really' approach of today.

   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 VladimirHerzog wrote:


You don't get it, if you play with proxies or unfinished models in Poland, the government comes and beats you up, steals your minis then put you in prison for the rest of your life

Funny. But you do get a handicap of 10VP which means your opponent just got a fourth extre secondary for your army being finished. It is like having a wrestling match with your opponent starting with 3 points on you. At some point playing such a game becomes not worth it. Especially if your opponent army or skill are much better then yours. Then you are practically playing for your opponent to have fun. And from my expiriance over long span of time it is not very fun. So no goverment needed.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






10 VP is not a huge handicap. Its out of 100 and you can easily gain enough points that it's nothing or you can simply not use the rule. Funnily enough when it's your game you don't have to use all the rules if you don't want them, if your opponent agrees.
*cue dumb arguments about removing the movement phase*
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 the_scotsman wrote:
 The Red Hobbit wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:

What is/are the Ork "Doctrines"? I know Marines got free buffs depending on what turn it was, but what did Orkz get?

You are correct, they are now the first 9th ed faction to not get a doctrine equivalent.


Or custom subfactions. as is tradition, whenever GW decides "wooooah now, this is getting out of hand we gotta dial it back!!!" they have to do it with the ork codex, nid codex or CSM codex.

in a surprising break from tradition, they did not put out the Eldar codex before the dial-back, but they at least got Marines released into the world with seven layer bean dip rules misery first.

to be completely fair though: As strong as the drukhari codex is, you have to admit there is a HUGE incentive not to take any allies. Giving up PFP is a big freakin' deal for a lot of units.


It was actually DG who was the first to not get custom subfactions! And their "chapters" don't have traits, just a relic/contagion/strat, and at least IMO that faction is pretty good! Hopefully the power spikes of admech/DE are just outliers, which they seem to be, given the generally even level of DG/Sisters/Orks. On topic I personally am having a lot of fun with the game, the missions are the best they've ever been, all the 9th codexes are interesting, and with the community starting back up again I can finally get back to 3 tournaments a month. The slow ass release of the rules factions need (and the order they've been received) is my biggest complaint, but covid and brexit will do that, I guess
   
Made in ca
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






SemperMortis wrote:
Not to defend Karol, but if you play in tournaments they generally don't let you use proxies that often and if you don't have a 100% completely painted army you are automatically losing points.


The conversation was about telling new players to just pick what they found cool and not worry about competitiveness


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Karol wrote:


It doesn't have to be a tournament. The 10VP for painting is a basic rule. I said it before I would get the rule more if it was 1VP, a small entice to paint or bonus for a fully painted. But generally crucial in only the most 50/50 games, and I think in those the fully painted army winning is an okey thing to happen. 10VP is a whole secondary. When a new player with his 2000pts army gets told that he now either has to pay comission, learn to speed paint or he will have a huge handicap for the next 6+months, more depending on the force or if his army is finished and doesn't suddenly require an update, a lot of newer players lose interests in w40k. Some even don't start to play it, even guys twice my age, who could probably do afford having a commission done on their army.

Same with proxies. Now everyone here plays with at least parts for models that are recasts. In 4 years I have not seen a fully GW army being played. If the bit costs more then the GW original, like some of the monsters, people don't really care that much. But rhinos as razorbacks may work one time , and probably against a friend. After 1-2 games you are expected to go to Partisan and ask him to sell you those 3-4 towers for your rhinos.

But in general the only people I saw that started their 9th w40k trip with tournaments were old veteran players that quit in 8th or in prior edition. And by tournaments I mean big things, large then a single store community. In store events I have seen people use just bought 1700pts armies with stuff in reserves to be recycled when some of the units on the table die.



In every casual metas i've been a part of or heard of , nobody ever claimed the 10vps for a fully painted army (even if their army was fully painted). If youre playing with recasts but don't allow proxying, its pants on heads slowed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 18:05:44


Admech Lucius
Drukhari
Craftworld Yme-Loc
Thousand sons
Tzeentch Demons
Slaanesh Demons
Night Lords
Imperial knights

 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Not showing extreme lenience for proxies and counts-as is also ridiculous, even (and especially) at a tournament standard.

Just mark the bases of units in clear and distinct ways. It is not brain surgery. Feeding into the totally manufactured concern of accurately modelling "stalker bolt rifle" vs "assault bolt carbine" is the wrong move. The sculpts of all these supposed customisation options are basically identical.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 18:07:48


 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 oni wrote:
9th edition has largely paralleled 5th edition in that the Core Rules are good, but the codexes have fethed up the whole thing. Also it doesn't help any that the 9th edition missions are absolute garbage.


Eh, I'd say the 9th edition core rules are pretty dire, tbh.

I mean, the whole reason the codices are such a mess is because the core rules are so shallow and provide absolutely nothing for armies to use or build on beyond festooning every unit with an ever-increasing number of bespoke rules.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in ca
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Not showing extreme lenience for proxies and counts-as is also ridiculous, even (and especially) at a tournament standard.

Just mark the bases of units in clear and distinct ways. It is not brain surgery. Feeding into the totally manufactured concern of accurately modelling "stalker bolt rifle" vs "assault bolt carbine" is the wrong move. The sculpts of all these supposed customisation options are basically identical.


yeah ,worst case scenario : juste have a piece of paper by the squad.

These 10 Chaos Space Marines with "Khorne berzerkers" written on a piece of paper besides them makes it pretty obvious as to what they are.

Admech Lucius
Drukhari
Craftworld Yme-Loc
Thousand sons
Tzeentch Demons
Slaanesh Demons
Night Lords
Imperial knights

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I miss fire points on vehicles :(
   
Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





Salt donkey wrote:


3) Price.
GW just loves beating inflation. The price bump this game has gotten was too extreme. This will even out over time, but it was much easier for me to justify a purchase in 8th than in 9th, which combined with the above problems, has decreased what I’ve bought considerably.



I'm a casual player, not a competitive one, so I can't speak to the overall balance of the game. For my casual playgroup, we've really been liking 9th, but then again, we mostly play Crusade based custom campaigns and don't care all that much about balance.

However, what I do know is cost of goods and I can make an educated guess about GW's current price hikes, especially recently in terms of the recent Flayed Ones and Heavy Intecessors. See, in the 2021 the cost of ocean freight has skyrocketed to absurd levels, costing nearly 10 times as much as it did last year with even big name world wide companies not able to catch a break. My guess is that the increase to models is to help offset this, and it's to all customers so that the overseas customers aren't the ones solely bearing the brunt of this. Again, this is just an educated guess from my work in international shipping, I could be totally off base. Even if I'm right though, the real question would be, will the prices go down eventually when the ocean freight market finally gets back to normal, or will GW just assume that everyone is cool with the new prices and make more money?

15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




PenitentJake wrote:
 The Red Hobbit wrote:
That's a great example, D&D 3.X has the relatively lightweight d20 core mechanic but every indidivudal character, NPC or Monster can just be completely buried in the endless amount of options between skill, feats, (prestige-)class features, templates, etc. that it's just a giant pain to deal with when running a game. Not so bad if you're a player with only one character to worry about it.

Applying that to 40k, it's okay to have layers upon layers of rules if you're a Custodes or other ultra expensive ppm army. But for everyone else there's just a headache of rules to have to remember.

Also, agree with Vipoid. It is astonishing to me that you can release a new edition then tell people to wait 1-2 years for their army to get an update. I can't think of any other game company who gets a pass like that.


That's why, for me 3.5 was the best D&D ever. I loved feats and prestige classes. I loved that the open gaming licence gave me hundreds of supplements to choose from- D20 Rokugan!

Simple to me is flavourless and boring. I hate the way skills don't mean jack in D&D 5.0. The game shouldn't even be called D&D- it should be called "Proficiency Bonus" because that's almost the only thing in the game that matter.

As for waiting 1-2 years for books, again, before 8th sometimes we'd go whole editions without getting a faction update- 2 years is nothing. Don't get me wrong, I hate edition churn too, and I think it's the biggest problem with the game. But I've seen people complain about this, and in the very next line, talk about what they want in 10th edition. The only way this doesn't happen is if we finally get a persistent edition.


2nd is fun, too. I completely agree on 5th- characters are cookie-cutter. Zero nuance in their abilities, light on immersion. It's an edition designed to determine a result as quickly as possible while ignoring the journey and, dare I say it, roleplaying.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Nah, GW has been crazy for pricing even before Covid started making things worse.
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





 Tawnis wrote:
Salt donkey wrote:


3) Price.
GW just loves beating inflation. The price bump this game has gotten was too extreme. This will even out over time, but it was much easier for me to justify a purchase in 8th than in 9th, which combined with the above problems, has decreased what I’ve bought considerably.



I'm a casual player, not a competitive one, so I can't speak to the overall balance of the game. For my casual playgroup, we've really been liking 9th, but then again, we mostly play Crusade based custom campaigns and don't care all that much about balance.

However, what I do know is cost of goods and I can make an educated guess about GW's current price hikes, especially recently in terms of the recent Flayed Ones and Heavy Intecessors. See, in the 2021 the cost of ocean freight has skyrocketed to absurd levels, costing nearly 10 times as much as it did last year with even big name world wide companies not able to catch a break. My guess is that the increase to models is to help offset this, and it's to all customers so that the overseas customers aren't the ones solely bearing the brunt of this. Again, this is just an educated guess from my work in international shipping, I could be totally off base. Even if I'm right though, the real question would be, will the prices go down eventually when the ocean freight market finally gets back to normal, or will GW just assume that everyone is cool with the new prices and make more money?


Its a nice theory but GWs models are produced in the UK. Only their paper/card components are produced in China. GW is being greedy, nothing more, nothing less.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:

Spoiler:

Because that doesn't happen in current 40k at all. Nope...

Just do it like WMH did theirs. USRs are all tied to select symbols, which are super easy to memorise as there are only a couple of dozen or so.

Let's look at an example:



Now, you can see from that card, if you know what the symbols mean he has Combined Melee Attack, Officer, Pathfinder and Stealth. His weapons are also both Blessed.

Another one that looks super complex but isn't at all:



So, we can see she has Advance Deployment, Assault, Pathfinder and Stealth. Her weapons are all Blessed, Magical and have Disruption. She is also a Weapon Master on her CCWs.

Then on the back of the cards you have any rules that are unique to the model and/or grant USRs when certain conditions are met, such as the rule Prowl, which grants Stealth to a model when they have the benefit of concealment.

This is the best way to do it IMO, especially when coupled with the app, so if you forget what it does you can click on it and it takes you to the relevant rulebook page embedded within said app. No extra text, no needless reprinting of the same rule over and over. This works and works well. I often why of all the things GW chose to pilfer from other systems they never swiped that...


I disagree on that approach for the simple reason that not everyone uses the app so learning the symbols would be pretty tedious. Once you know them, its for sure a good system tho


WMH had the symbols from Mk1, before apps were a thing. You learn them incredibly quickly. Simple symbology is easy to learn. Most board games use symbols and you'll have learned them within an hour or so, often with the first few turns.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 18:37:08



 
   
Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





 Sim-Life wrote:


Its a nice theory but GWs models are produced in the UK. Only their paper/card components are produced in China. GW is being greedy, nothing more, nothing less.


Yeah, but they still have to export them around the world to get to their customers.

15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Yeah, they do but that's not where the cost comes from. Flayed Ones and Heavy Intercessors are stupid expensive in the UK where they are made so the export thing doesn't make sense.
   
Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





 Gert wrote:
Yeah, they do but that's not where the cost comes from. Flayed Ones and Heavy Intercessors are stupid expensive in the UK where they are made so the export thing doesn't make sense.


Think about it though. It would be much worse off if they only increased it based on region. Here are the two scenarios:

1. UK prices stay the same and everyone there is happy, they buy the normal amount of models because nothing has changed. Meanwhile, costs to North America go up 60 cents on the dollar (which is what we are seeing right now from a freight perspective) and your $115.00 start collecting box now costs close to $200.00. Most people in North America stop buying all together to wait out the massive price hike causing a huge loss in sales. Brick and Mortar GW's close from lack of sales and LGS's stop bringing in anywhere near as much product.

2. Raise everyone's prices, but not so much that people stop buying. Sales may drop a little here and there, but overall customers remains consistent; albeit with a lot of griping about price increases.

Which one of these makes more sense to you to enact from a business POV?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/28 19:00:23


15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
Made in ca
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






 Sim-Life wrote:

WMH had the symbols from Mk1, before apps were a thing. You learn them incredibly quickly. Simple symbology is easy to learn. Most board games use symbols and you'll have learned them within an hour or so, often with the first few turns.


ok, i think there was an overfocus on the "app" part of my comment. I meant it more like "if i'm gonna need to refer to any source to learn what the symbols mean, i might as well have the text right there on the datasheet (much like MTG does with its keywords having explanations as to what they do on the card itself).

At first you read the reminder, after a while you just look at the keyword or symbol.

Admech Lucius
Drukhari
Craftworld Yme-Loc
Thousand sons
Tzeentch Demons
Slaanesh Demons
Night Lords
Imperial knights

 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

These price increases were happening well before shipping went to chaos. Look at Eldar Banshees.

This is just GW seeing how high they can push their margins before people start walking away. There's no reason to excuse them.
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






 Sim-Life wrote:


Its a nice theory but GWs models are produced in the UK. Only their paper/card components are produced in China. GW is being greedy, nothing more, nothing less.


That's not entirely true. All GW's paper products are made in China, but so are all of their hobby supplies (except paint) and every one of their plastic terrain kits.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the raw polystyrene material used to make the kits in the UK is sourced through China.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 19:06:33


 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Spoiler:
 Tawnis wrote:

Think about it though. It would be much worse off if they only increased it based on region. Here are the two scenarios:

1. UK prices stay the same and everyone there is happy, they buy the normal amount of models because nothing has changed. Meanwhile, costs to North America go up 60 cents on the dollar (which is what we are seeing right now from a freight perspective) and your $115.00 start collecting box now costs close to $200.00. Most people in North America stop buying all together to wait out the massive price hike causing a huge loss in sales. Brick and Mortar GW's close from lack of sales and LGS's stop bringing in anywhere near as much product.

2. Raise everyone's prices, but not so much that people stop buying. Sales may drop a little here and there, but overall customers remains consistent; albeit with a lot of griping about price increases.

Which one of these makes more sense to you to enact from a business POV?

None of this matters because GW was always expensive even for a company that makes models. The price rises aren't tied to inflation or anything they just get raised while at the same time cheaper alternatives such as bundles or good value box sets become rare.
When my hobby group started 30k (pre-Calth) there were loads of FW bundles ranging from Tactical blobs to Vehicles+accompanying units. Calth dropped and even more 30k bundles got dropped, then a couple of months after Prospero was released the entire bundle range gets axed and so do the box sets in favour of some Legion upgrade kits and 10-man boxes of the plastic PA models. 30k goes from being still expensive but very accessible, to annoyingly expensive and almost impossible to get people to start.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 19:18:03


 
   
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GW prices are high, but it is a total crapshoot how much.

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